361 replies to this topic

[David McKinney]

Ah, nostalgia! It seems like just yesterday!

[seldo]

That whole episode was insanely dangerous...
 
The way Webber ran out there on the track, the way Alonso pulled up on the line, ridiculous.

erm...True....and True....but hardly worth a 10 spot grid penalty, especially since it just continues a long and hitherto un-penalised list of precedents over 50 years, including apparently one by one of the stewards....
Just another case of the nanny-state creeping insidiously into all facets of our lives...

[Option1]

He wasn't given a 10 place grid penalty for the lift incident, but was just reprimanded for that.  However, there's 3 strikes  aspect to reprimands during a season, and this was Webber's third reprimand. 

 

Neil

[elansprint72]

Ah, nostalgia! It seems like just yesterday!

Yes! I'll have a look at the footage in 20 years... if I'm spared. 

[seldo]

He wasn't given a 10 place grid penalty for the lift incident, but was just reprimanded for that.  However, there's 3 strikes  aspect to reprimands during a season, and this was Webber's third reprimand. 
 
Neil

Yes - well aware of that, but they would also have known the effective repercussions of a 3rd formal reprimand. I'm afraid the punishment simply doesn't fit the crime.
On another variation, since the engine was obviously caput, does the engine-change penalty compound with the 3 strikes penalty? If so he won't be able to even start his next race until December.....;)

Edited by seldo, 23 September 2013 - 21:29.

[elansprint72]

Ah, nostalgia! It seems like just yesterday!

... and some fell on stony ground... 

[Lee Nicolle]

Yes - well aware of that, but they would also have known the effective repercussions of a 3rd formal reprimand. I'm afraid the punishment simply doesn't fit the crime.
On another variation, since the engine was obviously caput, does the engine-change penalty compound with the 3 strikes penalty? If so he won't be able to even start his next race until December.....;)

I only get November!
Though the whole thing is nanny state. Though Alonso could have parked in a better spot to pick up Mark. The piece of footage is interesting. 12000rpm in the indirect gears, like about 2000 in a sporty road car. About 6000 in 7th at a 100k. Remember these blokes have been driving that same stretch of road a 3 times the speed so it would feel like they are stopped.

[scheivlak]

Yes - well aware of that, but they would also have known the effective repercussions of a 3rd formal reprimand. I'm afraid the punishment simply doesn't fit the crime.
 

Now that's what I call a nanny state argument 

"Your honour, I know my client is wrong but don't punish him like you should do because of its effects on this poor soul"

[seldo]

Now that's what I call a nanny state argument 
"Your honour, I know my client is wrong but don't punish him like you should do because of its effects on this poor soul"

And would you be just as vehement if it had been Hamilton, Alonso, Raikonen, or, gasp, Vettel? Methinks not....

[scheivlak]

And would you be just as vehement if it had been Hamilton, Alonso, Raikonen, or, gasp, Vettel? Methinks not....

Well, then you're wrong.

[Ray Bell]

And now Webber says it was all 'comical'...

 

It's obvious he's dropping out of the class soon.

[GMACKIE]

That whole episode was insanely dangerous...

 

The way Webber ran out there on the track, the way Alonso pulled up on the line, ridiculous.

Oh, shock!, horror! - grown men engaging in dangerous activities in F1......where will it all end?

[Ray Bell]

Greg, you can't criticise Schumacher's attacks on Damon Hill etc and not speak out on this incident...

 

Sure, it's always at least bordering on dangerous, but this was pretty silly, you'd have to admit.

 

Like when Bruno Carosi drove close to the pits at Longford with 100' of fencing mesh dragging from his Jag's rear bumper and his crew tried to jump on it to tear it off so he wouldn't be black-flagged.

[seldo]

Greg, you can't criticise Schumacher's attacks on Damon Hill etc and not speak out on this incident...
 
Sure, it's always at least bordering on dangerous, but this was pretty silly, you'd have to admit.
 
Like when Bruno Carosi drove close to the pits at Longford with 100' of fencing mesh dragging from his Jag's rear bumper and his crew tried to jump on it to tear it off so he wouldn't be black-flagged.

Yes - it was thoughtless and dangerous, but had Alonso stopped to one side, rather than smack-bang in the middle of the track it would have been a completely different story, and would just be one more "driver get's a lift back to pits" situation which has been occurring for the last 60 years.
Had there been an actual incident, as distinct from the possibility of one, the penalty would be justified.
But as it stands, it is really no different to a racing move where someone overtakes dramatically/brilliantly/closely/perilously/scarily/dangerously (choose your description) but no contact occurs and no-one is hurt and no goods damaged. Contact = penalty, no contact = no penalty.

[GMACKIE]

Yes Ray, it was "pretty silly" - foolish even.....although it showed [to me, anyhow] that they [some of them] are human, and not just 'robots', controlled by a team of geeks in the pits.

[seldo]

As an afterthought - is it potentially any more dangerous than Vettel's usual swerve at the pit-fence on the last lap, or his no-hands-on-wheel fist-pumping antics at virtually full speed?
Wait for more nanny-rules shortly....

[Stephen W]

Yes - it was thoughtless and dangerous, but had Alonso stopped to one side, rather than smack-bang in the middle of the track it would have been a completely different story, and would just be one more "driver get's a lift back to pits" situation which has been occurring for the last 60 years.
Had there been an actual incident, as distinct from the possibility of one, the penalty would be justified.
But as it stands, it is really no different to a racing move where someone overtakes dramatically/brilliantly/closely/perilously/scarily/dangerously (choose your description) but no contact occurs and no-one is hurt and no goods damaged. Contact = penalty, no contact = no penalty.

 

I suspect there is an element of 'to discourage the others' about the fine. Yes there was no contact but when I watched it I was appalled at the stupidity of both Alonso for stopping where he did and Webber for mincing out onto the track with cars still hurtling towards him! If as 'Seldo' suggests Alonso had actually pulled over to be nearer to Webber there would have been no danger to anyone and hence no fine.

[Elio de Maky]

TeoFabi on team mate Thierry Boutsen 1987.

Uploaded with ImageShack.us

Portugal GP 1987, Estoril, turn "Orelha"

[BRG]

As an afterthought - is it potentially any more dangerous than Vettel's usual swerve at the pit-fence on the last lap, or his no-hands-on-wheel fist-pumping antics at virtually full speed?
 

And that pointy finger business! He could have someone's eye out like that!  And encouraging all that tasteless booing!

 

Ban him!  Ban him NOW!!

[eldougo]

Sounds like a good idea BRG ,Hate the Finger    

[Duc-Man]

Found this on fb: Tom Pryce (or at least his car) in spain 1975.

Edited by Duc-Man, 22 October 2013 - 08:26.

[alansart]

Found this on fb: Tom Pryce (or at least his car) in spain 1975.

 

I hazard a guess that the car is on it's way back to the Paddock having broken down in practice. The Paddock was the Stadium at the top of Montuic and it looks as though the roads have been reopened after the days running. The mechanic sitting on the rear wing looks to have the jump battery next to him.

[eldougo]

Great picture DucMan you can see a face in the rear view mirror probably another mechanic taking it back to the pits .

[Graham Clayton]

1980 Indy 500 winner Johnny Rutherford giving Tim Richmond a lift back to the pits before turning into Victory Lane:

 

Edited by Graham Clayton, 25 October 2013 - 09:27.

[group7]

would like to post a photo in this thread. gave up trying !  if I sent the image,  would anyone be willing to do so for me ?

Edited by group7, 29 March 2014 - 21:04.

[kento11]

Try photo bucket

[eldougo]

Found a few more Getting A Lift..

 

 

 

 
Found a few more Getting A Lift..

Edited by eldougo, 02 April 2014 - 05:13.

[Lee Nicolle]

 
Found a few more Getting A Lift..

Sports Cars used to be a bus for victory laps with most of the team. 

[eldougo]

Warwick Roolyn "Getting A Lift " from Mark Skaife E/Creek 1991.

[arttidesco]

 

Apologies for poor picture quality but it is a still from the film 'Ein Engle Auf Erden' Romy Schneider 'getting a lift' from the Monte Carlo street circuit to the local French Airport (Nice ?) from Henri Vidal, in his last role before he died of a heart attack aged 40, aboard a 250F (#2521?).  

Edited by arttidesco, 08 August 2014 - 00:12.

[GMACKIE]

(Nice ?) Yes !......Very Nice !

[scheivlak]

Richard Petty told the story of his father pulling out from a pit stop at one race.  The kid was still cleaning the windshield, and Petty was already accelerating on the track when he noticed his son, lying on his belly on the hood.  Lee yelled at his son to hold on, and Young Richard took his first lap in a NASCAR race.

 

http://www.taurtoise.../Patriarch.html

[Tuboscocca]

 

Apologies for poor picture quality but it is a still from the film 'Ein Engle Auf Erden' Romy Schneider 'getting a lift' from the Monte Carlo street circuit to the local French Airport (Nice ?) from Henri Vidal, in his last role before he died of a heart attack aged 40, aboard a 250F (#2521?).  

Ralph--thanks At 1.23.23 h is this scene from an otherwise 'awful' German production..The mixed Junior/GP takes at Monaco are interesting!! But that's out of topic..

 

Michael

[arttidesco]

Ralph--thanks At 1.23.23 h is this scene from an otherwise 'awful' German production..The mixed Junior/GP takes at Monaco are interesting!! But that's out of topic..

 

Michael

 

I found the production quite charming, maybe I was watching with my nostalgic glasses on

[Duc-Man]

Another one from FB: Shadow DN7 Matra, Monza 1975,Jarier,Lafitte

 

 

Looks like babyblue racing gear was the highest of fashion back in the day.

Edited by Duc-Man, 22 October 2014 - 13:48.

[Tuboscocca]

I found the production quite charming, maybe I was watching with my nostalgic glasses on

Fully agreed for the 'Zeitgeist',  ....and the best is the old Monaco without skyscrappers and...

 

Michael

[eldougo]

Great photo .Thanks Duc-Man.The French connection 1975 style. I remember that material of Jacques suit looked like Corduroy....

[Duc-Man]

Next shot from fb. Like almost always without photo credit.

Daytona 1971

 

[Tim Murray]

Ermanno Cuoghi on the right front wing?

[LittleChris]

Ermanno Cuoghi on the right front wing?

That's who I thought too Tim

[Michael Ferner]

Certainly looks like Herman, was he with Gulf Porsche in '71? And the guy standing right behind, with the neatly dressed bird, looks a lot like Sam Posey to me.

[Tim Murray]

Certainly looks like Herman, was he with Gulf Porsche in '71?

Yes indeed - he moved to Ferrari at the end of 1971.

[Alan Cox]

 

Apologies for poor picture quality but it is a still from the film 'Ein Engle Auf Erden' Romy Schneider 'getting a lift' from the Monte Carlo street circuit to the local French Airport (Nice ?) from Henri Vidal, in his last role before he died of a heart attack aged 40, aboard a 250F (#2521?).  

 

2521 indeed, Ralph. Painted in the Monegasque colours as sported by its one-time owner, André Testut. Running no.56 in the photo, the number which Testut used when trying to qualify for the 1959 Monaco GP.

[arttidesco]

Thanks Alan

[Duc-Man]

Aaaand an other one, this time from twitter:

Richie Ginther carpooling with Jo Bonnier & Innes Ireland during the 1965 French GP race weekend. Photo: Jeroen Booij

[Ray Bell]

Gives new meaning to 'hop on a Honda,' doesn't it?

I wonder if anyone has a photo of Bruce Burr astride the Elfin F2 in which Greg Cusack won the Australian Championship? I gather he did a whole lap.

[eldougo]

2) Another shot of the Ginther, Ireland Bonnier triple header - is Innes wearing a polo shirt?

 Thought i had seen this photo before post No32....

Edited by eldougo, 25 October 2014 - 22:51.

[Rob Ryder]

Posted on behalf of Group7 (Mike)


22-06-1980 Mosport Park Can-Am : 18 Dan Craddock Lola


24-06-1990 Mosport Park IMSA : 75 Steve Millen Nissan 300ZX

[group7]

Rob, thank you for posting those for me, I think the first, of the Lola can-am requires no comment ! !, as for the second, of the Millen team in victory, I count eight on board, is there a record, for the amount of hangers on ?

 

Group7 in canada

Edited by group7, 30 October 2014 - 13:25.

[Graham Clayton]

The 1967 Le Mans 24 Hour winning Ford GT40 of Dan Gurney and AJ Foyt:

 

http://wheels.blogs....n-racecar/?_r=0