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When was Formula 1 first called Formula 1?


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#1 Jackmancer

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 14:43

Hey guys,

 

I know the first F1 race was in Silverstone, 1950, but I don't see anything on 'Formula 1' on this poster:

inglaterra50poster.jpg

 

 

Same as here:
3kbwpvqn9c6ayi.jpg

 

1950albi.JPG

 

 

 

Let's go forward in time a bit:

lorenzi-jose-monaco-grand-prix-f1-c-1960

I do see it here, but still small:
 

reims-f1-french-grand-prix-c-1960.jpg

 

1965
race-of-champions-poster.jpg

 

 

 

 

Anyhow, I could go on and on, placing posters here, but to me it seems that in the beginning the races where called 'Grand Prix', instead of Formula 1. When did this change? And how?

 

Thanks so much. I've been wondering this a long time.

 

 



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#2 David McKinney

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 16:09

First point,the first Formula 1 race was not at Silverstone in 1950

Second point, the question of terminologies has been discussed many times before. See what the "Search" button at the top of the page leads you to

#3 Rob29

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 16:14

I recall we have discussed this before but I think it was first called F1 in1948.The World championship started in 1950 but included Indy 500 which was not for F1.No one ever scored a point at Indy and F1 so can be ignored for historical purposes? before 1948 was known as the Grand Prix Formula.

Nice posters anyway


Edited by Rob29, 25 October 2013 - 16:16.


#4 D-Type

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 19:19

As has been stated in the previous threads it was simply the international formula introduced in 1948 along with a formula for a secondary category of cars and the two formulae were variously referred to as Formula 1 and Formula 2, Formula I and Formula II, or Formula A and Formula B - sometimes in the same official document, possibly even in official documents.  It didn't matter what they were called - there were two formulae was all that mattered.  When the British 500cc formula was given international status in 1950 it was always Formula 3 or Formula III and never Formula C so you could say that the terms Formula A and Formula B were no longer used from then.  Whether a typist or writer used the "Arabic" number Formula 1 or the "Roman" numbered Formula I depended on the preference of the individual.

 

When the World Drivers' Championship was set up, the CSI included Indianapolis as it was the premier race in the USA and justified the World title.  Although the organisers made an attempt to run the race for Formula 1 cars, the lobbying of the owners of 3-litre cars meant this didn't happen.  Drivers did score points in the Championship, but as no Indianapolis drivers finished in points scoring positions in European GPs and no GP driver, except Ascari, drove at Indianapolis, many statistics compilers ignore Indianapolis.



#5 BullHead

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Posted 25 October 2013 - 22:56

And that... pretty much sums it up. 1948

To add to that. AFAIK the first 'Grand Prix' was Le Mans 1906. I think this was also when the 'formula' concept was introduced, regulated engine size and minimum car weight. The first purpose built Grand Prix track was Brooklands 1907.
Set rules / formulae for the car types varied over the decades I believe.
1948 saw multiple grand prix formulae introduced, more specifically a secondary formula B, which gave rise to the labelling as A and B. Or 1 and 2 as already said.

But as too clearly said the drivers championship started in 1950 and so the first formula 1 world championship race was indeed the silverstone grand prix that year.

As also said there is some threads about this done already.

Edit - I suppose if we consider formula 1 to be the first one and only formula before a formula B was brought in, maybe 1906 was it? But not called A or 1 of course until the B came in

Edited by BullHead, 25 October 2013 - 23:53.


#6 D-Type

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 09:05

Re-reading the first post, I don't think the poster was asking about the origin of Formula 1 but was asking about the usage of the term "Formula 1".

 

Race organisers didn't need to include "Formula 1" in their publicity posters or, for that matter, on their programme covers.   They were in fact saying "Come and see the Grand Prix" and John Q Public wasn't really concerned what formula the cars conformed to.  Was the crowd any smaller at Monaco in 1952 when the race was run for sports cars?

 

As time went on people probably came more aware that there were different categories of car.  The Race of Champions poster shows this.  The selling point was "The first Formula 1 race of the season" - they were telling the racing fans they had an opportunity to see the same cars as ran in the Grand Prix and that the feature race was not Formula 2, Formula 3, Sports cars or Touring Cars which would be other meetings at Brands hatch.  Similarly at Reims, in some years the main race was the 12 hour sports car race and in years when the French GP (GP de l'ACF) was run at Rouen there would be a race at Reims, sometimes titled a "GP de France" which sometimes was for Formula 2; so in 1960 they wanted to subtly emphasise that this year it was 'the real thing', i.e. Formula 1 cars.

 

I do, however, find it surprising that the Albi GP poster doesn't emphasise that Formula 1 cars (BRM, Ferrari etc) would be there as that year as all the Championship GPs were for F2 cars it was a rare opportunity to see the faster cars. 



#7 Vitesse2

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 10:42

I do, however, find it surprising that the Albi GP poster doesn't emphasise that Formula 1 cars (BRM, Ferrari etc) would be there as that year as all the Championship GPs were for F2 cars it was a rare opportunity to see the faster cars. 

You might want to check the date on that Albi poster, Duncan ...  ;)

 

Pre-1948, it was just 'the Formula', 'the Grand Prix Formula', 'the International Formula' or 'Formule Internationale'. Everybody knew what that meant. It only became necessary to assign numbers (or letters, depending on how individual journalists decided to do it) after the FIA created what was referred to in reports at the time simply as 'a second International Formula'. Unfortunately, in October 1947, nobody at the CSI saw the necessity to set down on paper an exact name for them. If they'd had the wit to do that, it would have saved a hell of a lot of hassle ...



#8 D-Type

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 11:02

You might want to check the date on that Albi poster, Duncan ...  ;)

 ~

 

Whoops! :o  :mad:

 

I wonder whether the 1952 and 1953 posters said "Formula 1"



#9 Tim Murray

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 11:05

I'm puzzled by the 'First Formula 1 Race of 1965' claim on the Race of Champions poster. Did they genuinely not realise there had already been a race, or were they being insular and implying that anything that happened outside the UK was irrelevant?

#10 RogerFrench

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 15:40

Was the pre-war 1500cc Voiturette formula  an official, AIACR formula? I was just wondering if that might have led them to name the GP formula.



#11 Vitesse2

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Posted 26 October 2013 - 17:24

The 'voiturette' or 'light car' races  were not run to an official CSI formula: individual organisers could choose to run races with a limit of 1500cc. But they could equally have picked 1100cc, 2000cc or any other limit they chose. 1500cc races were encouraged - but not officially endorsed as a separate class - by the CSI.

 

That holds true until 1938, when 1500cc cars were incorporated within the framework of the new International Formula and were (theoretically) able to compete on an equal basis, since they were allowed to weigh less than larger-engined cars. However, they also had to comply with the same bodywork regulations, which put them at something of a disadvantage. 1500cc races were still run and the few 1500cc cars created during that period - Alfetta, ERA E, MB W165, Maserati 4CL - all complied to those bodywork rules. In fact they could - and probably would - have built smaller, lighter, faster cars, had those rules not been place. The pre-war Austins and post-war Cisitalia D46 are both ample proof of that.



#12 Sharman

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 14:11

All of the foregoing begs the question how the hell did Bernie managed to copyright the terms?



#13 RogerFrench

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 17:21

All of the foregoing begs the question how the hell did Bernie managed to copyright the terms?


A good question, but has anyone ever bothered to contest the copyright? For example, if I came across a ludicrously large sum of money, and decided to promote a race to be run to Formula One, I imagine Bernie or his lawyers would descend rapidly. (I also imagine there'd be no entrants from the regular Effone teams, since they're contracted, but that's bye-the bye.)
I think one could reasonably argue that since the rules of international sports, like Golf, Rugby Football, Association Football, Cricket, etc., etc., are published by their governing bodies for all to use, then Motor Racing is really no different, and that "Formula One" is really not a "copyrightable" term.

#14 D-Type

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Posted 29 October 2013 - 19:12

Can someone who knows please nail this one.  According to this post on a previous thread his application to trade mark as opposed to copyright the terms 'Formula 1' etc  was rejected.  But things may have changed since.



#15 BullHead

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Posted 30 October 2013 - 20:18

Well other sports have a "Formula 1" category. Powerboats for one...



#16 RStock

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 15:08

I believe it is the words "Formula One World Championship" that Bernie owns the rights to, and it was known as the "World Championship for Drivers" before that.

 

My understanding is that Italy's rep to the CSI came up with the formula in 1947. They were first known as "Formula A" and "Formula B", but I'm not sure when the terms were changed to numerals, but it wasn't long after the rules were first published.

 

Most fans would not have known what a "Formula One" or "Formula Two" car was back then, they were generally known as "Grand Prix" cars. The tracks ran the show back then and usually just billed their race as a "Grand Prix" with note of which formula rules would be used. I don't believe Formula One was used much in describing the races until after Bernie took control in 1981, they were still generally referred to as "Grand Prix" races and the championship referred to as the "World driving championship" .


Edited by RStock, 03 November 2013 - 15:08.


#17 DogEarred

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Posted 11 November 2013 - 07:39

Well other sports have a "Formula 1" category. Powerboats for one...

 

... and hovercraft.



#18 raceannouncer2003

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 02:30

...and air racing.

 

Vince H.



#19 Michael Ferner

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 17:55

... and motorcycle racing...

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#20 D-Type

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Posted 13 November 2013 - 19:13

So, what (if anything), have the Formula 1 Group managed to trademark apart from the 'F1' logo?


Edited by D-Type, 14 November 2013 - 11:33.


#21 BullHead

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 08:00

I believe it is the words "Formula One World Championship" that Bernie owns the rights to, and it was known as the "World Championship for Drivers" before that.

 

My understanding is that Italy's rep to the CSI came up with the formula in 1947. They were first known as "Formula A" and "Formula B", but I'm not sure when the terms were changed to numerals, but it wasn't long after the rules were first published.

 

Most fans would not have known what a "Formula One" or "Formula Two" car was back then, they were generally known as "Grand Prix" cars. The tracks ran the show back then and usually just billed their race as a "Grand Prix" with note of which formula rules would be used. I don't believe Formula One was used much in describing the races until after Bernie took control in 1981, they were still generally referred to as "Grand Prix" races and the championship referred to as the "World driving championship" .

 

Sounds about right.

I imagine the Formula one label started being used when marketing and publicity of Grands Prix became more centralised, and the championship series as a whole became a selling point. One could I suppose check posters of every year to find the first formula mention...



#22 David McKinney

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Posted 15 November 2013 - 10:01

No. I don't think the series became a selling-point until some years after it started in 1950, and as we know, the term Formula 1 was in common use long before that

#23 h4887

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 21:45

A few days ago I was watching a TV quiz show in which they were asking questions about Monaco. One was 'in which decade was the first Formula 1 Grand Prix?' '1950s', said the contestant, as did I. 'Wrong', they said, 'the first one was in 1929'. Collapse of stout party... :mad:



#24 D-Type

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 22:14

If you want to find out about the first World Championship in the 1920's you need to visit Lief Snellman's site

 

And I suspect your quiz master may have said "1949" not "1929"



#25 Tim Murray

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 22:18

The correct answer should have been 1948. There was no race in 1949.



#26 Vitesse2

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Posted 16 November 2013 - 22:42

A few days ago I was watching a TV quiz show in which they were asking questions about Monaco. One was 'in which decade was the first Formula 1 Grand Prix?' '1950s', said the contestant, as did I. 'Wrong', they said, 'the first one was in 1929'. Collapse of stout party... :mad:

I know of at least one book (by a respected author - not a TNFer) which asserts that the pre-war Grand Prix Formula was called Formula A ...



#27 Rob29

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 07:34

The correct answer should have been 1948. There was no race in 1949.

This has always been my understanding-though some souces refer to this as FA.



#28 h4887

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Posted 17 November 2013 - 20:31

If you want to find out about the first World Championship in the 1920's you need to visit Lief Snellman's site

 

And I suspect your quiz master may have said "1949" not "1929"

It was Richard Osman and he said the decade was the 1920s,  the race being in 1929.



#29 Rob29

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 08:32

It was Richard Osman and he said the decade was the 1920s,  the race being in 1929.

Correct.Question here is what was the question :clap: F1 started in 1948.World Drivers'championship in 1950.Sky F1 is showing old USA F1 races  at Detroit & Dallas.Unfotunately these were not called the USGP at the time.In 1982 there were 3 WCF1 races in the USA at Long Beach ,Las Vegas & Detroit.



#30 E.B.

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 13:16

It was Richard Osman and he said the decade was the 1920s,  the race being in 1929.

 

He has previously set questions that referred to Alberto Ascari as a double F1 world champion. If I had been a contestant on the show, I genuinely wouldn't have known what answer to give for the Monaco question, a problem that often happens when you know more about the subject than the question setter.



#31 Vitesse2

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 14:22

He has previously set questions that referred to Alberto Ascari as a double F1 world champion. If I had been a contestant on the show, I genuinely wouldn't have known what answer to give for the Monaco question, a problem that often happens when you know more about the subject than the question setter.

If there's any form of rigour on the show then there should be a mechanism by which you can challenge something if you genuinely believe they are wrong. That was certainly the case on Fifteen to One, since I saw it done myself when I competed on it. Recording was stopped, checks were made and the answer given was deemed to be correct. The whole sequence was then re-shot.

 

However, I'm not sure Pointless (was there ever a more appropriate title?) has the intellectual standards of Fifteen to One ... it is after all the same basic formula as Family Fortunes, which is hardly University Challenge, is it?



#32 RogerFrench

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 15:38

He has previously set questions that referred to Alberto Ascari as a double F1 world champion. If I had been a contestant on the show, I genuinely wouldn't have known what answer to give for the Monaco question, a problem that often happens when you know more about the subject than the question setter.


AP are reporting that the last driver to win 9 consecutive Formula One races was Ascari. Methinks Vettel may be the first.

#33 Michael Ferner

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 16:08

Vettel has won nine in a row? :eek: Is he that good?

#34 Vitesse2

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 16:17

Eight (so far) Michael. Although a ninth looks entirely feasible. And I have to say he is beginning to look like he may turn out better than that other German bloke ... I just wish he'd learn to celebrate a little more genuinely.



#35 E.B.

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 16:28

Is he that good?

 

The jury still seems to be out on that one. Head over to the RC forum for expert debate and analysis of the topic.



#36 Michael Ferner

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Posted 18 November 2013 - 16:50

I'm not sure that is such a good idea! :lol: