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Sebastian Vettel vs Daniel Ricciardo 2014 part III


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#1 SophieB

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 17:36

Links to previous threads:

 

http://forums.autosp...ricciardo-2014/

http://forums.autosp...o-2014-part-ii/

 

 



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#2 bourbon

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 19:40

A brilliant drive in conditions by Seb at Suzuka from 9th to 3rd. He was outracing the grid with the exception of the Mercs and looked a lot like his old self.   No real issues or circumstances and quickly facilitating passes to P3 on merit.  He was 9.6 seconds ahead of the car behind before the final safety car with 9 laps to go.  I am glad that last pit call under the SC didn't end up ruining what was his best race on the season and a very deserved spot on the podium.  :up:


Edited by bourbon, 07 October 2014 - 02:25.


#3 Jejking

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 19:55

Yes he almost threw it away but he kept it under control very well today, +1 for Seb and also for Ric for not overcooking it while chasing Vettel. Very professional stuff by the both of them.



#4 skc

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 20:56

One thing I liked about Sebs race was his overtaking was very efficient. Didn't muck about. Just made them stick at the first attempt.



#5 joshb

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 21:24

Both made good passes stick very early. 

Dan probably re-raised the stakes though with his... very bold and decisive.



#6 Ferrari_F1_fan_2001

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 21:25

Seb looks like he still has the edge in the rain but Ric has closed the gap to him.

#7 goldenboy

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 21:27

Although Dans overtakes looked impressive, vettel was able to get his done that little bit earlier, which is what gives him the point for me. He ended up in front from good fortune originally, but the exact same thing has happened to dan before. Ricciardos pace on old tyres was mightily impressive, but I suppose he was taking their last life out of them as he was about to pit. Dans laptimes were fractionally better but it all came fown to those overtakes for me.

#8 Ricciardo2014

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 21:29

If the race hadn't been stopped Dan would have finished ahead of Seb.............yet again.

#9 icecream

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 21:57

i think it's quiet possible, but could really have gone either way.  he still had to catch him, and get past.  would have been a great battle in any case. 

 

seb def has the edge in the wet for mine, but dan has been pretty good as well.



#10 Thomas99

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 22:39

Quote SKC (previous thread)

Well he's beaten him two races in a row now so there's your wish.

 

 

 
Edit - updated scores.
 
Uwloxbq.png

Edited by Thomas99, 03 November 2014 - 00:30.


#11 skc

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 22:46

 

 
Hard to call that a beating. He finished behind him in the race but got placed ahead on the count back rule. 
 
I agree it was a solid race, but the stint which Ricciardo would have been faster (at the end of the race with fresh tyres) was removed, and Vettel's extra pit stop for fresh tyres was completely nullified by the count back.
 
But because I hate the bickering in trying to 'alter' the results by the numbers this race goes to Vettel. 
 
with no mechanical failures its 9-3 race, 9-6 quali.

 

 

Yeah, so Seb beat him twice in a row now.

 

Too little too late though as Dan has been the superior driver over the majority of the races.



#12 Thomas99

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 22:52

Yeah, so Seb beat him twice in a row now.

 

Too little too late though as Dan has been the superior driver over the majority of the races.

 

I still groan to call that beating when the standings are reversed on count back. Still, it was an excellent race by Vettel. He was damn fast and made incredibly overtaking moves. As did Ricciardo. Actually the two Red Bull drivers impressed me the most of anyone today.



#13 ebc

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 23:11

I still groan to call that beating when the standings are reversed on count back. Still, it was an excellent race by Vettel. He was damn fast and made incredibly overtaking moves. As did Ricciardo. Actually the two Red Bull drivers impressed me the most of anyone today.


Vettel was only behind because Red Bull called him in under the safety car, he was well ahead before that.

#14 DanardiF1

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 23:14

I still groan to call that beating when the standings are reversed on count back. Still, it was an excellent race by Vettel. He was damn fast and made incredibly overtaking moves. As did Ricciardo. Actually the two Red Bull drivers impressed me the most of anyone today.

 

Ahem... Mr Button might have something to say about that.



#15 Thomas99

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Posted 05 October 2014 - 23:51

Vettel was only behind because Red Bull called him in under the safety car, he was well ahead before that.

 

He was ahead because they left Ricciardo out on older tyres so that he would have fresh tyres at the end of the race. Vettel's tyres were almost 10 laps older. Thats just the regular play of strategies.

 

Had the race resumed, Vettel would have come under attack by Ricciardo with much fresher tyres, or as we saw, would have been behind due to stopping himself. But he got lucky and they reversed the order so he was ahead. Thats just racing, sometimes safety cars fall at opportune times to get you ahead of drivers. 


Edited by Thomas99, 06 October 2014 - 00:07.


#16 Brother Fox

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 00:07

Ricciardo had fresher tyres and was biding his time somewhat for a final flurry at the end (as he's done all year). It was set for a cracking end

Seems very unimportant now though

#17 Thomas99

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 00:08

Ricciardo had fresher tyres and was biding his time somewhat for a final flurry at the end (as he's done all year). It was set for a cracking end

Seems very unimportant now though

 

Agreed. Its pointless now and the championship is over.

I was just responding to the people claiming Vettel 'beat' him. 



#18 BlackGold

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 00:44

Agreed. Its pointless now and the championship is over.

I was just responding to the people claiming Vettel 'beat' him. 

Because it was he did. He beat Dan today. Would, should, could doesn't proof anything.

 

Vettel was faster as Dan changes his tyres later and was behind Vettel. Vettel hat sector best at right before he came for his last stop, so he was quite fast at this point and no sign that the tyres were gone and Dan could catch him till the finish...



#19 Thomas99

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 00:49

Because it was he did. He beat Dan today. Would, should, could doesn't proof anything.

 

Vettel was faster as Dan changes his tyres later and was behind Vettel. Vettel hat sector best at right before he came for his last stop, so he was quite fast at this point and no sign that the tyres were gone and Dan could catch him till the finish...

 

I disagree. Ricciardo crossed the line first, but the results were amended so Vettel was ahead. 



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#20 icecream

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 00:53

how do the countback rules work anyhow?  don't really get it.  

 

think it's fair to say vettel got lucky (he said it himself), but then safety cars are a lottery anyhow and ric has benefitted in other races. 



#21 BlackGold

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 00:54

I disagree. Ricciardo crossed the line first, but the results were amended so Vettel was ahead. 

Dan crossed the line first, cause Red Bull called Seb for an unnecessary stopp - u can think for yourself for what reason.



#22 LEO10

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 01:03

Ricciardo would have easily beaten Vettel if it wasn't for the safety car in the end, but that's how it goes sometimes. Ricciardo generally had better pace, and in the end he had quite a big advantage with fresher inters with the track getting wetter and wetter, but the SC stopped that. Every race Ricciardo keeps surprising, to be faster than Vettel, on one of Seb's favourite and best tracks, in the wet, in which Vettel has excelled so much in the last few years, is really impressive


Edited by LEO10, 06 October 2014 - 01:03.


#23 Thomas99

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 01:03

Dan crossed the line first, cause Red Bull called Seb for an unnecessary stopp - u can think for yourself for what reason.

 

Probably because he had very old tyres at that point and had the race resumed he may have fallen prey to other cars.



#24 BlackGold

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 01:11

Probably because he had very old tyres at that point and had the race resumed he may have fallen prey to other cars.

Like I said before, Seb had sector best times right before his last stopp, so no signs the tyres are gone. Dan was many seconds behind, before the SC was called out, and Seb could increase the gape continuously till this point. So where is the proof Dan would finished for Seb?


Edited by BlackGold, 06 October 2014 - 01:14.


#25 Thomas99

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 01:25

Like I said before, Seb had sector best times right before his last stopp, so no signs the tyres are gone. Dan was many seconds behind, before the SC was called out, and Seb could increase the gape continuously till this point. So where is the proof Dan would finished for Seb?

 

Finish ahead? He was ahead until the positions were reversed. 



#26 Ricciardo2014

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 01:29

Like I said before, Seb had sector best times right before his last stopp, so no signs the tyres are gone. Dan was many seconds behind, before the SC was called out, and Seb could increase the gape continuously till this point. So where is the proof Dan would finished for Seb?


Dan did finish before Seb.
I'm surprised that's so hard to grasp ?

Both drivers have had ups and downs when it comes to the safety car this year, and Seb himself has admitted he got lucky this time.

#27 BlackGold

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 01:30

Finish ahead? He was ahead until the positions were reversed. 

Thats a proof for what? That Dan was faster than Seb at the end and could have finshed infront of him without the SC?

 

ROFL, think again about it^^



#28 BlackGold

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 01:33

Dan did finish before Seb.
I'm surprised that's so hard to grasp ?

Both drivers have had ups and downs when it comes to the safety car this year, and Seb himself has admitted he got lucky this time.

No, Seb finished for Dan, look at the official result.

 

Of course he got lucky today with P3, cause Red Bull wanted him to finshed behind Dan. So he got lucky that there plan didn't pay off.



#29 Thomas99

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 01:43

Thats a proof for what? That Dan was faster than Seb at the end and could have finshed infront of him without the SC?

 

ROFL, think again about it^^

 

I never said without the safety car, I said without the position reversal.

Its very rare in a race for one driver to beat another driver, but then have their positions reversed by default. 



#30 BlackGold

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 01:44

I never said without the safety car, I said without the position reversal.

Its very rare in a race for one driver to beat another driver, but then have their positions reversed by default. 

Thats the rules. So what?



#31 Ricciardo2014

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 01:44

No, Seb finished for Dan, look at the official result.

Of course he got lucky today with P3, cause Red Bull wanted him to finshed behind Dan. So he got lucky that there plan didn't pay off.


I'd be more inclined to think RBR pitted Seb because they've finally worked out his tyre management is total shite, so best to pit him BEFORE he totally destroyed yet another set.

#32 lbennie

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 01:45

i think we can dispel the dan not fast in the wet myth now.



#33 BlackGold

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 01:47

Thats a bit paranoid. 

No it isn't. Thats what happend.Seb was much faster than Dan the laps right before the SC, so there was absolutly no point, to call him hin - besides team "order"



#34 BlackGold

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 01:49

I'd be more inclined to think RBR pitted Seb because they've finally worked out his tyre management is total shite, so best to pit him BEFORE he totally destroyed yet another set.

Haha, of course. His tyre were so gone, that he was seconds faster than Dan the laps before his stopp and he pulled sectos best out of these gone tyres right before the stopp.

 

Nice try Dan-Fanboy^^


Edited by BlackGold, 06 October 2014 - 01:49.


#35 Thomas99

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 01:52

Haha, of course. His tyre were so gone, that he was seconds faster than Dan the laps before his stopp and he pulled sectos best out of these gone tyres right before the stopp.

 

Nice try Dan-Fanboy^^

 

If you're happy that your driver finished behind on track but was given the position due to count back feel free. Celebrate away. 

 

I suspect you will be in for pleasure next year, because I don't think Raikkonen will hold a candle to Daniel in performances.


Edited by Thomas99, 06 October 2014 - 01:53.


#36 BlackGold

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 01:57

If you're happy that your driver finished behind on track but was given the position due to count back feel free. Celebrate away. 

 

I suspect you will be in for pleasure next year, because I don't think Raikkonen will hold a candle to Daniel in performances.

I am happy, cause Seb drove well today and that the teamorder didn't pay off.

 

What u guys try to do, is ridiculous. Toda Seb was better than Dan, just accept it and don't try to make up nonsense.


Edited by BlackGold, 06 October 2014 - 01:58.


#37 Ricciardo2014

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 01:58

Haha, of course. His tyre were so gone, that he was seconds faster than Dan the laps before his stopp and he pulled sectos best out of these gone tyres right before the stopp.

Nice try Dan-Fanboy^^


Try reading my post, at no time did I say his tyres were gone, quite the opposite in fact.
I strongly believe they bought him in at the perfect time to prevent that happening..........again ;)

As far as Dan-Fanboy goes..........absolutely and unashamedly mate lol !

#38 Thomas99

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 01:59

What u guys try to do, is ridiculous. Toda Seb was better than Dan, just accept it and don't try to make up nonsense.

 

You must not have read this thread previously to now.



#39 BlackGold

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 02:00

Try reading my post, at no time did I say his tyres were gone, quite the opposite in fact.
I strongly believe they bought him in at the perfect time to prevent that happening..........again ;)

As far as Dan-Fanboy goes..........absolutely and unashamedly mate lol !

You strongly believe? Wow that proofs all^^

 

Blind out all facts and just believe. Thats the new "Knowing" :lol:



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#40 Thomas99

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 02:03

You strongly believe? Wow that proofs all^^

 

Blind out all facts and just believe. Thats the new "Knowing" :lol:

 

Both sides are weak arguments and result in what ifs. 

 

Seb got the finished ahead point by countback from behind Ricciardo on track. 


Edited by Thomas99, 06 October 2014 - 02:16.


#41 lbennie

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 02:06

Dan looked quicker all race from live timing, and made his middle stint last an extremely long time. He would have gotten by Seb in the end imo.



#42 Ricciardo2014

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 02:10

You strongly believe? Wow that proofs all^^

Blind out all facts and just believe. Thats the new "Knowing" :lol:


I don't know how well you've been following this season, but its a FACT that Sebastian has suffered atrocious tyre wear in comparison to Daniel at almost every event.
This has been his major flaw, particularly towards the end of a race.

Maybe, just maybe RBR are onto that and pitted him to avoid that happening...........again ;)

#43 BlackGold

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 02:12

Dan looked quicker all race from live timing, and made his middle stint last an extremely long time. He would have gotten by Seb in the end imo.

What Livetiming did u saw? Without the SC-Laps, Vettel was in 19 of 31 Laps faster thand Ricciardo. At the end, where u saw and advantage for Ricciardo, Vettel was seconds faster in the last couple of laps before the last SC. So, how Ricciardo would have gotten Seb in the end?



#44 BlackGold

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 02:14

I don't know how well you've been following this season, but its a FACT that Sebastian has suffered atrocious tyre wear in comparison to Daniel at almost every event.
This has been his major flaw, particularly towards the end of a race.

Maybe, just maybe RBR are onto that and pitted him to avoid that happening...........again ;)

U know, that today they had rain/inter tyres instead of the dry ones, right?

 

And happening for what? Your believing? ROFL


Edited by BlackGold, 06 October 2014 - 02:14.


#45 Thomas99

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 02:17

I don't know how well you've been following this season, but its a FACT that Sebastian has suffered atrocious tyre wear in comparison to Daniel at almost every event.
This has been his major flaw, particularly towards the end of a race.

Maybe, just maybe RBR are onto that and pitted him to avoid that happening...........again ;)

 

Yeah but people attack them either way, had they left him out and his tyres fell off they'd be criticised like at Monza, had they pitted him they'd get criticised.



#46 BlackGold

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 02:20

Yeah but people attack them either way, had they left him out and his tyres fell off they'd be criticised like at Monza, had they pitted him they'd get criticised.

There is no point to call a driver in, as long as he is quicker than the cars around him at this point of a race.



#47 Ricciardo2014

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 02:41

There is no point to call a driver in, as long as he is quicker than the cars around him at this point of a race.


Well seeing as you seem to have all the data available to the team, and new exactly which lap his tyres were going to fall off a cliff I apologise.

Next race you should give RBR a call and offer your advice.
I'm sure it will be much appreciated.

Anyhow, back to the real world.

This closes the gap between Dan and Seb to 54 points.

Even with Seb's seeming upturn in form I doubt that can be overturned.
They are generally finishing within a place or two of each other, and Seb will without doubt take an engine penalty at some stage.
( Maybe Dan will too, but he's not in as dire a position )

Reliability will be the only thing preventing Dan from finishing 3rd in the WDC IMHO.

#48 BlackGold

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 02:52

Well seeing as you seem to have all the data available to the team, and new exactly which lap his tyres were going to fall off a cliff I apologise.

Next race you should give RBR a call and offer your advice.
I'm sure it will be much appreciated.
 

Why me? Your believing should be the much better indicator, when a driver should change the tyres^^ Why looking on facts like laptimes, just ask the Dan-Fanboy^^

 

 

Anyhow, back to the real world.

This closes the gap between Dan and Seb to 54 points.

Even with Seb's seeming upturn in form I doubt that can be overturned.
They are generally finishing within a place or two of each other, and Seb will without doubt take an engine penalty at some stage.
( Maybe Dan will too, but he's not in as dire a position )

Reliability will be the only thing preventing Dan from finishing 3rd in the WDC IMHO.

So what? With all the reliability problems Vettel had so far (not only in races), unlucky race developemts, stupid team strategies... its a waste of season so or so. Very good 1st year for Dan, but it wasn't a "equal" fight over the season relating to all the problems, bad luck and bad teams decisions...


Edited by BlackGold, 06 October 2014 - 02:55.


#49 lbennie

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 02:53

What Livetiming did u saw? Without the SC-Laps, Vettel was in 19 of 31 Laps faster thand Ricciardo. At the end, where u saw and advantage for Ricciardo, Vettel was seconds faster in the last couple of laps before the last SC. So, how Ricciardo would have gotten Seb in the end?

 

That is just how it looked to me, after the first round of stops Seb emerged with a few seconds gap, Dan closed that immediately and stayed within 1 to 1.5 seconds of seb until he pitted. Dan continued on for another 10 laps or so at the same pace - which tells us he was driving well within himself while comfortably sitting on his team mates gearbox. He was on course to pass him before the SC came out at the end, he was taking at least a second a lap out of seb.



#50 BlackGold

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Posted 06 October 2014 - 02:58

That is just how it looked to me, after the first round of stops Seb emerged with a few seconds gap, Dan closed that immediately and stayed within 1 to 1.5 seconds of seb until he pitted. Dan continued on for another 10 laps or so at the same pace - which tells us he was driving well within himself while comfortably sitting on his team mates gearbox. He was on course to pass him before the SC came out at the end, he was taking at least a second a lap out of seb.

After the 1st round of stops, Dan came out right behind Seb. There was no gap Dan could closed. It was Seb who drove away.

 

And I don't knwo what last few laps u belevie u saw, but Dan was never taking a second on lap out of seb at the end. It again was Seb who pulled away 3 laps before the last SC - and that by 1-2s pro lap.


Edited by BlackGold, 06 October 2014 - 03:00.