New Member
Posted 15 June 2015 - 07:15
this morning I found an old poster for a race on 26/27 feb 1939 laszlo Hartmann was due to drive a mercedes benz, sadly of course he could not.
will post picture when i work out how to.
greta garbo/ray mays/caracciola/dreyfuss etc listed, 15 entrants also bira and negus?
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New Member
Posted 15 June 2015 - 07:29
this is the poster
Edited by Vitesse2, 15 June 2015 - 08:24.
Administrator
Posted 15 June 2015 - 08:17
Well, whatever it is, it's not a motor race. Pedal cars? Soapboxes/billycarts? Or, most likely, given that this is in Switzerland in February - toboggans or sledges?
Floda Reltih and Lisolmuni will presumably have ganged up on the others in an ultimately failed attempt to win after Lisolmuni started late and was then eliminated at roughly half-distance. And of course Greta Garbo would have wanted to be alone ...
Moderator
Posted 15 June 2015 - 08:18
What a fascinating mystery document. I don't think it really belongs in the Hartmann thread - perhaps it merits its own thread? Obviously some sort of spoof event run as part of Shrove Tuesday celebrations, but was it an actual race? I wonder how 'Greta Garbo', 'Lisolmuni' and 'Floda Reltih' got on, and I suspect the 'Pic Pic' might have been a trifle uncompetitive. 
Do you have any more info on it, Ceriw?
Edit: pipped by Richard 
Edited by Tim Murray, 15 June 2015 - 08:19.
New Member
Posted 15 June 2015 - 08:31
well that's a surprise, I have no idea about this, I looked up the pic pic as I had never heard of one and saw that it was hardly a race car..... but who am I to wonder what went on....
interesting replies - anyone who can explain this poster wins a virtual pint....
regards
all I can tell you is that it was in the collection of an austrian dealer and it was in an old book, hence its good condition..... is it safe to assume it's authentic?
Administrator
Posted 15 June 2015 - 10:00
I think you may have slightly mixed up Fasnacht (a doughnut eaten on Shrove Tuesday) and Fastnacht, Tim. The Swabian-Alemannic Fastnacht festival encompasses Shrove Tuesday, but is much more than just that. Added to which, Shrove Tuesday 1939 was on February 21st.
The two restaurants named both seem to still be in existence, although the addresses given for the start points don't - or at least Google maps doesn't recognise them! - but other research I've done re Swiss addresses suggests this isn't unusual. Having looked at the restaurant locations, which seem to be on pretty flat ground, I'm leaning more towards the pedal car/soapbox/billycart option rather than toboggans.
To put that into context, the American Soapbox Derby had been going since 1934. It had certainly been covered by the European motoring press and at almost exactly this time in Britain the Scout Association was launching its own version. Rather than the straight courses and 'gravity racers' used in America these were pedal-powered and had to be capable of being steered. All for a maximum budget of fifty shillings. From reports I've found, the most successful ones incorporated bicycle gears - one was even said to have independent suspension on all four wheels!
Member
Posted 15 June 2015 - 10:34
Apparently there's a newspaper article in the archive of one of the mentioned villages (Bauma): http://www.chronik-b...artikel/b01225/ If you want I can drop them a note and ask for a scan (and hope they'll send me one 
)
Moderator
Posted 15 June 2015 - 10:35
The Swabian-Alemannic Fastnacht festival encompasses Shrove Tuesday, but is much more than just that. Added to which, Shrove Tuesday 1939 was on February 21st.
Administrator
Posted 15 June 2015 - 10:54
The power of the internet! Well found, Jovanotti. I was about to try to enter the fairly murky world of Swiss municipal archives when you posted.
In addition to the anagrammatic political commentary of 'Floda Reltih' and 'Lisolmuni', 'Negus' was another term for the title of the Emperor of Abyssinia. In Amharic. Haile Selassie was of course in exile at this time. Just down the road from me in Bath.
There's also another 'film star': 'Heny Porten' (more usually Henny Porten) was a star of German silent movies and later became a film director.
Member
Posted 15 June 2015 - 11:28
Fassnacht, Fastnacht, Fasching, Karneval is a festivity/tradition in many German-speaking regions, celebrated in different ways depending on location - in many places though, it involves dressing up as public figures, which I assume to be the case here.
Member
Posted 15 June 2015 - 11:34
...and, of course Fassnachtsumzüge very often involve dressed-up folk in vehicles parading from place to place.
New Member
Posted 15 June 2015 - 15:37
The obvious question is why would Laszlo Hartmann be entered for an event nine months after his death?
Something not quite right......
Member
Posted 15 June 2015 - 15:48
That is because it was almost certainly a Fastnachts-Umzug...
Administrator
Posted 15 June 2015 - 15:56
The obvious question is why would Laszlo Hartmann be entered for an event nine months after his death?
Something not quite right......
At a guess, all ten racing driver names were picked at random from a programme for the 1935 Swiss GP meeting, the clue to that being the apparent presence of Balestrero, who didn't race in Switzerland thereafter.
Member
Posted 15 June 2015 - 16:05
How come Hinterburg gets special billing as a location as well? Some sort of Tunbridge Wells-esque in-joke?
New Member
Posted 15 June 2015 - 16:27
and I think Greta Garbo was Swedish not Yugoslavian... there's Prince 'Bira' of Siam included along with the King of Abby,
the stamp on the top right is is a 'ticket stamp' of 5rp, but something is at a price of 30rp -top left-
I wonder if it was a kart type competition that you could bet on? with random carnival look a like 'drivers'...?
Think the inclusion of Laszlo is a bit remiss....
Edited by ceriw, 15 June 2015 - 16:28.
Administrator
Posted 15 June 2015 - 19:41
How come Hinterburg gets special billing as a location as well? Some sort of Tunbridge Wells-esque in-joke?
Rather than the ruined German castle, it appears to be another restaurant in the same village.
http://www.zueriober...ihof-hinterburg
Member
Posted 15 June 2015 - 20:13
A very elaborate in-joke? My favourite is Caracciola in an Auto-Union.
Administrator
Posted 15 June 2015 - 20:24
A very elaborate in-joke? My favourite is Caracciola in an Auto-Union.
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Posted 16 June 2015 - 09:57
Blimey! You learn something new every day. Does the lack of numbers mean that this was a private test?
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Posted 16 June 2015 - 10:07
Administrator
Posted 16 June 2015 - 10:10
Blimey! You learn something new every day. Does the lack of numbers mean that this was a private test?
Yes, before the 1934 Italian GP. According to Caracciola - not always a reliable source - he and Rosemeyer also swapped cars on another occasion. We never did pin down exactly when or where, though:
http://forums.autosp...h/#entry3372600 et seq ...
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