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Strange how a driver with such an obvious claim to a top F1 team has spent 3 seasons driving cars that have little or no chance of winning in F1.

 

It is vital that to succeed in F1, assuming a certain level of talent, that drivers must be well connected and onside very early on in their careers. If you have to scratch around in mediocre or average machines for several years then you are in peril of your skills and motivation being squandered and becoming sidelined. The difference in the F1 careers of Vettel and Hulkenberg is startling, the former has gone from strength to strength, from memory starting off with a single BMW entry in 2007 followed by several drives with Torro Rosso, then 2008 with TR and the Monza win then straight to RBR with 4 wins and runner up in the WDC followed by 3 and now probably 4 WDCs in a row. Much of this, in my opinion, made possible by Newey designed cars.

 

In my opinion Nico Hulkenberg is at least as capable as Vettel but despite his many pre-F1 successes he has had to rely upon Williams, Force India and now Sauber. Is he less marketable than others, or is he unlucky that there are already three German drivers in regular F1 seats, why for instance, as others have commented, did McLaren choose the inconsistent and overly aggressive Perez instead of Nico?

 

Let's hope Hulkenberg gets the Lotus ride or something comparable/better soon.

I don't understand.

I know this is not a support thread, but i don't see the point of coming to the thread named "Alonso" to say "the block was better" or to talk about Vettel's achievements.

Wake up! There´s a german guy (only 24 years old) he´s going to join the same achievements than Alonso with almost 100 races less... we can talk about class above

Alonso was betrayed by Mclaren and I consider him a much better driver than Lewis (that not means that I not consider Lewis an amazing driver too).

In case you didn't notice Vettel was 1 year and a half in a not so nice team and then jumped right to a Newey's car that have been title contender for 3 years.
Meanwhile Alonso came to F1 in the worst team of the grid to later go to a middfield brand for years (till that brand could make a title contender car).

So I don't understand how could someone do comparisons about what two drivers achieved in X races taking into account those two drivers were not given the same tools equally or similarly during that number of races and that they both didn't have to cope with the same degree of competitiveness. Vettel has had a title contender car more often than not, and in two out of three years where he had it his car was so diminant that he had only real competition from his own team mate.

Therefore, an unfair data to take in order to talk about the class of these two drivers.

Also the Toro Rosso at Monza was the fastest car... and at China 07 or Monaco 08... Vettel always drove the best car. Even the Webber car is a different chassis car...

Erm... Actually if you even bothered to follow 2008 season, indeed the Toro Rosso was the fastest car at Italy and under the conditions that took place that day. Vettel got the pole position and Bourdais got 4rd at qualifying. Not that Vettel was given the victory, he was nice and is a talented driver, but again, denying a fact and reality to hail a driver is completely oblivious.

Also, the Toro Rosso from back then wasn't the Toro Rosso we know today despite that some Vettel's fans want to believe it was. In reality It was a car that allowed Vettel to finish in the top 10 exactly ten times and five times in the top 5. If a driver is able to finish in X position is because the car can run as fast to get that X position.

Of course Vettel is a very good driver, made the difference back then, and blah blah, but again you are bringing some quite unfair sarcasms there.

If you want to believe Vettel is a class above it's ok, but if you need to be unfair to hail him...



It's like if I said Alonso's car at Hungary in 2003 wasn't fast... He made the difference as Vettel did in a Toro Rosso but saying his car wasn't fast would be pretty dumb just like in Vettel's case regarding certain races such as Italy.

Also, I never heard anyone here saying Webber runs a car with a different chassis than Vettel, so besides unfair you are being a demagogue. Enjoy your cave.

I agree. Even if everything was ideal at every track from the first race, if he didn't crash in Malaysia and instead finished on the podium, didn't open DRS again in Bahrain and finished 5th in Monaco, and that was possible, he would now have something between 176 and 182 points, at best 15 points behind Vettel. RB9 is too strong, and Vettel is also driving incredibly well. Alonso will probably finish second anyway at the end of the season, so he will provide the best possible result with this car.

 

 

Vettel’s 2008 Monza win was MASSIVELY over-hyped. If you actually sit down, and look at the facts of the weekend, you will come to the realization that it wasn’t that amazing at all.

And the car should have been DQed for the entire season because it used RBR/Newey IP. <- My unpopular opinion.

Yes, 2008 STR was better than that year’s RBR.
Not a bad car and of course the Monza drive was very good. But let him win the title without a Newey car, then we can talk about greatness.

How come the 2008 STR somehow became a better car that year when it never matched RBR even closely in any other season? I don't buy that. The only thing that was obviously (but marginally) better with that STR was the Ferrari engine. Most of those 2008 STR great results came in rain and as we all know driver skill often becomes the deciding factor in the rain.

Yes, 2008 STR was better than that year’s RBR.
Not a bad car and of course the Monza drive was very good. But let him win the title without a Newey car, then we can talk about greatness.

 

Thats not the point tho.

The ppl. who would call Fernandos 2012 ferrari a "shitbox" are the same ones who would say the 2008 Toro Rosso was a "good car". when its clear as day that the toro rosso was nowhere near as competitive with its contemporaries as the 2012 ferrari was.

Vettel has plenty of flaws alright, but being slow or unable to extract the best out of his machinery in a race are not one of them.

Didnt you get the memo yet?
hamilton's been driving minardis for all of his career; Alonso almost won 2012 in a shitbox meanwhile Vettels 2008 Toro Rosso was actually a pretty good car.

Yes, 2008 STR was better than that year’s RBR.
Not a bad car and of course the Monza drive was very good. But let him win the title without a Newey car, then we can talk about greatness.