Michael Argetsinger

Brian, that brings a smile to me. I too fondly remember Michael, the kindest man whom I have ever known. Say hi to J.C. for me.

Tom

Tom:

Could that be arranged for the Elkhart Lake vintage races in July?

Frank (look for Tom Warth and me in the old Roller)

Indeed. I too miss him dearly. As I have said in the past, he was the kindest man I ever knew.

Tom

It would be an understatement of the greatest sort to say that I miss Mike. We had planned for Mike to deliver the first keynote address to the inaugural Jean S. Argetsinger Symposium for International Racing History, which the International Motor Racing Research Center (IMRRC) and the Society of Automotive Historians (SAH) launched last Fall in Watkins Glen. He and I had plotted and schemed for the bringing such a symposium to life for years and to lose Mike just as it was coming to fruition was a cruel blow. Fortunately, Joe Freeman agreed to help us and stepped in and gave an excellent address to the symposium. Mike and I, as his wife, Lee, will attest, often spent hours on the phone discussing this, that, and the other, usually issues regarding racing history.

Thanks to Brian for keeping Mike's memory alive and well.

Edited by B Squared, 05 August 2016 - 09:16.

Edited by B Squared, 09 July 2017 - 10:48.

Enjoyed racing Spec Miata against Michael at Blackhawk Farms way back in the day...

BTW,  hope all is going well with you BB!

I don't know whether or not you knew Mike's racing history, SKL...

But there's a thread around here somewhere on which he detailed the circuits he'd raced on and seen, and some of the cars he'd driven on them.

Enjoyed racing Spec Miata against Michael at Blackhawk Farms way back in the day...
 
BTW,  hope all is going well with you BB!

Just looked over that list!    I don't think he missed many tracks!!    I find myself looking through my publisher's edition of the Donohue book quite often... brings back great memories, and some sad ones...

Jon and I were kindly invited to the launch of the book “An American Racer - Bobby Marshman and the Indianapolis 500” by Michael Argetsinger at the Speedway Museum by Brian Brown.
https://www.racemake...bobby-marshman/


Jon took a great picture of Nigel Roebuck, Brians dad, Gordon Kirby and Brian Brown.

Edited by B Squared, 07 July 2019 - 11:16.

Agreed. Michael was simply the kindest man whom I ever knew.

Tom

Edited by B Squared, 07 July 2019 - 16:12.

Even though I have to admit I don't know much about Bobby Marshman,  I will have to get this book as I enjoyed Michael's other works, especially my publisher versions of the Donohue masterpiece...

(I also figure Seppi above will appreciate my avatar...)

First review I've found for Michael's An American Racer: Bobby Marshman and the Indianapolis 500:

http://www.coastal18...ew-MARSHMAN.htm

That review could have been written by someone who had never read the book. Indeed if they had read it they would probably not have understated how long he was fighting for his life.

True; however phrases such as "he (Michael) has published definitive biographies of Mark Donohue and Walt Hansgen" - "essential work" - "scholarly" - "meticulously" - "dug deep" all describe attributes found within all of Michael's books. That certainly includes An American Racer: Bobby Marshman and the Indianapolis 500. So maybe Jim Donnelly does read E.B.

I liked the phrase "What's most encouraging about this book is its assurance that Marshman's memory will now live in perpetuity."

Bobby's widow, son, sister and other family members and friends are thrilled with Michael's final work and that is what matters most to those involved. Michael's family is also very happy with his last book and the lasting memories that come from his acclaimed works.

edit: Eric my friend, thank you - I'm humbled and honored by your kind comments. 

Edited by B Squared, 09 August 2019 - 10:38.

I've been aware of the Indy 500 since 1964  & have been lucky enough to attend the event very frequently since 1986.

Although a 'purist sceptic' at first, I have grown to respect the event & its history. 

I am not an intense history buff but from time to time & due to the constant exposure, some subjects washed up & have caused my to take a deeper interest.

This is one of them. I will get to read this book. Well done & thanks to all involved.

Although aware of Cameron Argetsinger through the Watkins Glen races, I was not aware of Michael's racing history in Europe.

I was however, on 'saying hello' terms with Peter, when he was racing in the UK.

Michael's legacy lives on in the Michael R. Argetsinger Symposium for International Motor Racing History which will be held for the fifth time over two days, the 8th and 9th of November, in Watkins Glen.

This year, we have what can only be seen as a bumper crop of submissions for the symposium, demonstrating the growing interest in the topic.

It will be the usual mixture of scholars from the world of the Academe, but also those independent scholars pursuing their personal interest and, yes, enthusiasm for the subject.

Former NASCAR historian Buz McKim will be back, the founder and publisher of Racemaker Press, Dr. Joe Freeman will also return, along with several other Argetsinger stalwarts, such as Dr. Mark Howell, whose presentation will address the relationship between NASA and motorsports.

This year, we intend to conduct both days of the symposium at the Watkins Glen International media center, making the experience even more in keeping with what Mike and I originally wished for the symposium.

We should have the schedule finally hammered out soon and will post it when the dust settles.

The Michael Argetsinger Symposium is, of course, open to the public along with the reception held on Friday evening at the International Motor Racing Research Center (IMRRC).

All we ask is that those attending consider making a donation to the IMRRC.

I have a vague memory of seeing a photo and reference to Michael racing in England in the early- to mid-'70s -- in either FF or maybe F3?

It struck a bell as it seems around the time I first read of his Dad's name, which sad to say may have been in a report about losing Francois.

Wasn't that Peter Argetsinger?

Edited by 2F-001, 11 August 2019 - 20:45.

Originally posted by Cirrus
Wasn't that Peter Argetsinger?

I eventually lived and raced in Europe for about ten years altogether. I never succeeded in making a living at it and always had a job that supported me (and my racing!). I raced mostly Formula Ford which was quite competitive at the time but also did some sedan racing too and twice did the 24-Hours of the Nurburgring. I was also involved in the organizational side as I organized the German National Formula Ford Championship on behalf of my sponsor American Express International. I later turned this series over - first to my brother Peter - and then to Dan Partel.

Since coming back to America in 1978 I have continued racing and have done a wide variety from FF, to FF2000, various sedans and sports cars in SCCA, Camel Light, and the various quasi-pro series in sedans, etc. If I have an achievement to point to in my racing I would say that it is the fact that I am still doing it!

For the statistically addicted (as I am myself!) I have 251 race starts to date - have raced at 53 different circuits (not counting those I have only tested at) in eight countries and 20 states of America - also have raced on nine different circuits that have hosted a World Championship Grand Prix.

I have race programmes showing Peter racing FF1600 in 1980 & 1981, then Formula 3 in 1982.

Peter was pretty good in FF, not one of the regular racewinners but a regular top 6 runner in good company. He didn't shine in F3 as I recall, but 82 Formula RT3 was a decent year with such as Byrne, Mansilla, Scott, Brundle, Weaver, Moreno, Trott, Coyne etc

Additional favorable comment on Michael's "An American Racer: Bobby Marshman and the Indianapolis 500"

"What got me going – again – was a book I started earlier this week. Entitled, “An American Racer: Bobby Marshman and the Indianapolis 500,” it was written by Michael Argetsinger, son of the legendary Cameron Argetsinger, the man who brought sports car road racing to the village of Watkins Glen in New York. It’s a great read and Michael must be congratulated for what had to be months if not years of research required to tell the reader literally everything there was to know about Marshman, and others of his era. If a guy like me wants to write a book, I can use Google to track down many of the facts; to research the life and times of Marshman, Argetsinger had to read microfilm of National Speed Sport News and microfiche or film of the sports pages of papers in the little towns where guys like Marshman had to go to race while working their way up the ladder to Big Indy. It was an arduous task that Argetsinger did so well.

But the point is that guys like Marshman – and Johnny White and A.J. Foyt and Bobby Unser and the list can go on and on – had to do all (or most) of their own mechanical work to get their cars ready to race. And while they often teamed up with other racers or teams to save on expenses while traveling from speedway to speedway, they often were on the road by themselves and the U.S. Interstate Highway System was still being constructed and the highways were two-lanes and went through the downtowns of every village, town and city along the way. Bobby Unser told me once that it would take him between 18 to 20 hours (12 hours now) to drive from his home in Albuquerque, N.M., to Los Angeles for one race – which saw him use much of his Pikes Peak-winning purse one year to purchase a small Cessna airplane, the first of the short-track racers to fly in order to save time.

And the cars they raced back then were not safe. There were no roll bars and safety belts were – maybe – one shoulder strap. The drivers were very aware of the dangers of racing and “gave each other room” (unlike today, with the roll cages or the halos, where drivers who – at one time – might not have had the courage to even go out there are braver ‘n Dick Tracy because if they do get upside down, it’s likely they won’t be hurt).

But even with the drivers being ultra-careful, accidents happened. An open-wheel car that got too high and brushed the wall could wind up flipping over and if the driver survived, his teeth didn’t. Or his nose and jaw were broken. And a lot of them – a lot – were killed.

This was the world of Bobby Marshman and nowhere in Michael Argetsinger’s meticulously researched book is there one word about Bobby Marshman complaining. About anything. Nor does anybody else complain. I know times change and people change and the Internet has changed just about everything but I have a feeling that if guys like Marshman or Don Branson or Jimmy Bryan were racing today, you still wouldn’t hear them moaning and groaning like all those precious guys living in Monte Carlo are ever so prone to do."

https://www.wheels.c...d-all-the-news/

Edited by B Squared, 19 October 2019 - 14:13.

We've now noted the passing of Cameron, Sam, Mike, Jean and Pete...

Cruelly, this is how life is. Each of them had their own attributes and each had their own way to affect people.

Mike, of course, posted here for a time. But he found he had to give it up when the friendliness started to disappear. It was not for Mike to be unfriendly. It was he who noted the passing of his dad on this forum.

Sam, not being a motor sport personality (if you like), was not so known and the record of his passing was merely that. Yet Sam I had found to be intensely interesting in the short time I spent with him at the family farm on the opposite side of Lake Seneca.

Mike somehow became my friend. He was a party to long phone discussions with me, he made it clear that I'd be most welcome should I make it to America to spend time with him. When I did get there he put Janet and I into a lovely motel room overlooking the lake because the weather was turning cold and, as he put it, "...neither your wife or mine would cope with the cold at the cottage." He referred to the family holiday cottage North of Watkins Glen on the same side of the lake as the circuit.

My second trip saw me alone, he and Lee took me into their Chicago home and Mike had to show me around Chicago, explain all the sights, make sure that I learned a lot about the place. And then a couple of weeks later I did get to stay at the cottage with Mike and came to admire his qualities even more as he showed me around his domain. And he took me to the farm and so I met Sam and Jean and I think it was Louise, who all made me feel most welcome.

Mike was no longer around when I made my third trip, but I felt a need to drop in and say 'hello' to Jean at the farm. Even though she was long past freely having guests, another one of the boys (Duke?) asked her if she would see me. I was happy to be able to express my condolences to her on the loss of the two boys who'd gone since my previous visit.

She really was a lovely lady and she was a part of the force behind the IMRRC in Watkins Glen. But, well into her nineties, she was not with us much longer after my visit.

Such a great family of people who'd been a big part in racing at the Glen. To hear that Pete's died is saddening to me. Not yet 70 makes it even more of a tragic loss.

But I'm guessing that their example will be motivating those left behind to ensure that the work they've put in will not be left unattended.

And to Louise, J.C., Rob, Duke and the other girls, my personal condolences join the very many I'm sure are flowing in right now. And especially to Shelkia, who will forever feel what Jean and Lee have felt, as have I.

 

 

 It was not for Mike to be unfriendly.

 

 

Ray, what a wonderful tribute. I have reread it a couple times because it was so true. I have excerpted just one phrase and posted it here. I think that is such a great description of Mike. I have often stated since his passing that he was the kindest man I ever knew. He could not do enough for anyone, be it a host at his Chicago home or when visiting at Watkins Glen. When I spoke at the IMRRC in 2012 Mike put me up in the best hotel in town and gave the desk clerk instructions that whatever I wanted should be put on his credit card. In addition, he took us out to eat both nights that I was there. It was on that trip that I met you Ray, and we both shared in Mike's graciousness and hospitality. When I would be in Chicago he not only popped for lunch, but would insist I come back to his house with him for beverages and stimulating conversation  with himself and other guests, including my friend Brian Brown, He would always be so solicitous in seeing to our comfort, travel arrangements, schedule, and so on. I will say it again, he was the kindest man I ever knew.

As for Peter, I never had the pleasure of meeting him, only seeing him in action on the race track. But I am sure that as an Argetsinger, he also was a superbly nice person.

Tom

Tom, I could bore everyone with details telling of how Mike went above and beyond the call of 'duty' to be a perfect host, a great friend, a generous man and an enthusiastic devotee of motor racing. Not to mention his unbreakable bond with his family.
 
Once he started posting on TNF we got a glimpse of not only these qualities, but also of the great knowledge he had of the motor racing scene, of the recollections he could bring to the fore to help us all be better informed and the very wide circle of people he knew or had known.
 
At some early point we started having conversation outside of TNF. I arranged for Frank Matich to meet him in Chicago so Mike could have a copy of the Australian Grand Prix 50 years book, we began having long phone conversations, he would send me things in the mail and so on. All the while I never knew I'd ever make it to America to actually meet him. And during those conversations I learned he had the cancer that would ultimately claim his life.
 
In 2002 I was at a convention in Sydney and sitting near me were a couple of American ladies. "Where do you come from?" I asked them. "Interlaken, in the Fingerlakes district of New York," I was told, "I guess you never heard of that?" she concluded her reply. So I mused that it must be near Watkins Glen and she confirmed that it was.
 
I told her that if I ever made it to America (which was merely a dream, I was living hand-to-mouth at the time) I would definitely be going to Watkins Glen and that I would look them up. Of course, ten years later I was able to go there, I missed out on catching up with her that time but on my next trip, in 2014, I did. But that's another story.
 
This is all about the generosity of Michael Argetsinger and, by extension, the Argetsinger family. So we went on to that 2012 trip when I was to take Janet for a 9,600 mile drive around the USA. And the timing of it was based around the October IMRRC presentation you made and the SEMA show in Las Vegas, where I committed myself to help another friend.
 
During the year following that trip I started a thread in the Paddock Club detailing our experiences. I trust folks here will indulge me as I copy over two posts from that thread which involve our time at Watkins Glen. The first step came with this, the day before we were due to arrive. We were in New Hampshire at the time, the furthest we got from home on that trip:
 
 
 

During the day Mike Argetsinger had phoned. He wanted to know when I'd be arriving as he was very keen to meet me before Saturday when the presentation was on at the Research Center. I promised him we'd get away early and be in Watkins Glen before Friday was out, but we were still about 360 miles away.

An early morning was called for...

.

Edited by Ray Bell, 10 February 2020 - 23:27.