26653 replies to this topic

[Jay]

Just dropping in to say Hya to all mac fans...

Hopefully the next few months will bring good Mac news about the MP4-25... anybody know a date for it's release/unveiling to the public?

J

[mkay]

Who wants to guess how complicated the new diffuser will be?

Triple? Quad?

[raiseyourfistfor]

Jay, on Nov 1 2009, 12:01, said:

Just dropping in to say Hya to all mac fans...

Hopefully the next few months will bring good Mac news about the MP4-25... anybody know a date for it's release/unveiling to the public?

J

I think all that is confirmed so far is that the first tests are February 1st.

FOTA were discussing having 1 big unveiling with all the cars together but I'm not sure what happened about that.

[Enkei]

SNiko, on Nov 1 2009, 16:48, said:

So, I assume that the second car will drive the dutch-speaking driver

Eh

[TheArmchairCritic]

raiseyourfistfor, on Nov 1 2009, 16:02, said:

I think all that is confirmed so far is that the first tests are February 1st.

FOTA were discussing having 1 big unveiling with all the cars together but I'm not sure what happened about that.

What about the 3 days of Rookie testing which are scheduled for December. Surely you can sneak a few 2010 parts on for testing. More importantly who would we test?

[Rockets]

lets hope for the best new 25 thread

[alg7_munif]

It's either Brawn or McLaren, and they know what McLaren is capable of over the years and they also know which team BrawnGP used to be.

[H0R]

I hereby declare that I will only consider this thread a success if we pass 327 pages without being locked.

Fingers crossed.

Edited by H0R, 01 November 2009 - 16:14.

[hunnylander]

mkay, on Nov 1 2009, 19:01, said:

Who wants to guess how complicated the new diffuser will be?

Triple? Quad?

It seems the concept works best with double. I bet on double, maybe it'll be triple but no more.

[De Jokke]

I think it's gonna be mcl or ferrari in command followed by one of the two and RBR. I think brawn will only be the 4th best team come bahrain.

[raiseyourfistfor]

TheArmchairCritic, on Nov 1 2009, 12:06, said:

What about the 3 days of Rookie testing which are scheduled for December. Surely you can sneak a few 2010 parts on for testing. More importantly who would we test?

Oh yes, I forgot about those, but it will still be the chubby sidepod / kers equipped MP4-24 that is testing the new parts instead of the MP4-25

[King Six]

Personally I was hoping to see an end to this Diffuser row and none of those double crap. I remember that the whole point of the 2009 redefined rules for the Diffuser was part of the whole concept of having less downforce/turbulent wake so that cars could follow each other better, you know the whole OWG thing.
But they hadn't counted on teams creating a double decker which sort of threw a spanner into the works of that idea of having much less wake turbulence. They were even talking about it today on the BBC (which is where I found out most about it lol)

So I was hoping that they'd become more clear on the Diffuser rules for 2010 to disallow Double deckers so that cars would be able to follow each other closer together, throw that in with refuel ban and next season would be even better. Now if only they bring back the 2 metre axle track. The easy solution to all the overtaking nonsense is always going to be mechanical grip over downforce/aero grip. Also don't know why they're going towards narrow front tyres for next season if they want to go down the route of mech > aero.

Although it is fun talking about all the weird off track aero improvements especially during the crazy days of winglets and viking horns and all that, but it doesn't make the races any more fun.

Edited by King Six, 01 November 2009 - 16:28.

[WebBerK]

My guess is the seat goes to Heidfeld, who is experienced, good developer and consistent race pace, however not extremelly fast.
Furthermore, when Nick was running in F3000, Whitmarsh was fully responsible for the campaign and must have something good to say towards Nick as the season was a total domination.

[alg7_munif]

WebBerK, on Nov 1 2009, 17:29, said:

My guess is the seat goes to Heidfeld, who is experienced, good developer and consistent race pace, however not extremelly fast.
Furthermore, when Nick was running in F3000, Whitmarsh was fully responsible for the campaign and must have something good to say towards Nick as the season was a total domination.

There is another thread for the driver discussion

[Raziel]

TheFifthDriver

"Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened..."

Well said!

[TurboF1]

TheArmchairCritic, on Nov 1 2009, 10:02, said:

To the whole McLaren team and Mercedes' awesome engines/KERS, superb recovery by the folks at Woking.

Never prouder to be a Macca fan than this year. What absolute class to recover from such a disasterous start to a season.
I'm excited by the 25, and, following Mclarens policy of bad car one year, world beater the next (07-08 was an oddity lol) we should be very competitive next year. I think i'll bet some money on Lewis getting his second WDC next year.

[Coral]

SNiko, on Nov 1 2009, 15:48, said:

So, I assume that the second car will drive the dutch-speaking driver

Do you mean German-speaking driver? If so than I'm beginning to think you could be right...if Rosberg does go to Brawn then it could be Heidfeld. I think he would fit in well at McLaren.

[Turbo Lag]

mkay, on Nov 1 2009, 16:01, said:

Who wants to guess how complicated the new diffuser will be?

Triple? Quad?

Justice

[ItisI]

teewoods, on Nov 1 2009, 16:36, said:

I have to say that sort of spirit is mostly due to Ron.

It was more then a thrill to see that charismatic character again in the paddock.

[rodlamas]

Whitmarsh said on the press release today that the 25 is building up well and it's already faster than the 24.

Let's hope it's MUCH faster.

[The Ragged Edge]

What's going on with Mclarens long term engine plans? Are they going to buy the I.P rights to the BMW F1 engine?

[Anomnader]

rodlamas, on Nov 1 2009, 17:42, said:

Whitmarsh said on the press release today that the 25 is building up well and it's already faster than the 24.

Let's hope it's MUCH faster.

Well.. isn't most of the problem that without testing we can only say it is faster in isolation?

Its all very well say the 25 is faster then the 24
But Ferrari's F61 could be much much faster then the F60.

The problem supposed this year was, they set a target of a level they thought was good enough, and once reached they should, Job done, when they should have being aiming much higher, I hope they don't fall into the same trap this year.

[OO7]

Weight distribution issues have been mentioned several times, regarding the difficultly McLaren have suffered this season. Even early on I recall both Heikki and Lewis commenting that the balance of the car was usually good but they just lacked downforce. In any case the Macca drivers appear to sit higher up or more upright that the other drivers, I think the small airbox and raised front chassis is a good indication. This possibly raises the cg of the car despite increasing airflow under the nose and subsequently to the floor. I wonder if the MP4-25 will see a return to a more traditional setup, particularly if KERS packaging was the primary driving force of the drivers seating postion?

[f1rules]

Obi Offiah, on Nov 1 2009, 18:54, said:

Weight distribution issues have been mentioned several times, regarding the difficultly McLaren have suffered this season. Even early on I recall both Heikki and Lewis commenting that the balance of the car was usually good but they just lacked downforce. In any case the Macca drivers appear to sit higher up or more upright that the other drivers, I think the small airbox and raised front chassis is a good indication. This possibly raises the cg of the car despite increasing airflow under the nose and subsequently to the floor. I wonder if the MP4-25 will see a return to a more traditional setup, particularly if KERS packaging was the primary driving force of the drivers seating postion?

yes will be interesting to see, what is also interesting, almost every team did everything they could to raise the front, except one of the fastest, brawn. Apparently they succeeded with getting enough flow to the rear diffuser, even though they didnt compromise the front

[OO7]

mkay, on Nov 1 2009, 17:01, said:

Who wants to guess how complicated the new diffuser will be?

Triple? Quad?

The new diffuser/s may not necessary be overly complex. The big issue is ensuring they are an integral part of the cars aerodynamic philosophy. This year McLaren and a number of other teams have had to make do with add-on components and band aid fixes in an attempt to redress the deficit to the 'Diffuser Gang'. McLaren's development pace and improve has been superb without doubt, yet they never managed to solve/achieve the aerodynamic performance they would like.

[OO7]

f1rules, on Nov 1 2009, 19:00, said:

yes will be interesting to see, what is also interesting, almost every team did everything they could to raise the front, except one of the fastest, brawn. Apparently they succeeded with getting enough flow to the rear diffuser, even though they didnt compromise the front

This is true. I wonder if the inverted shovel feature at the front of the floor contributes to this?

[f1rules]

yes i thought about that also,

[undersquare]

TheArmchairCritic, on Nov 1 2009, 15:49, said:

We'll see. Ron is a very tough negotiator and if anyone could persuade Merc to stay on Ronzo's the man.

Well if Ron's talked Merc into promoting the McLaren brand - MP4-12C and all - beyond 2011 then he's a brilliant negotiator for sure

Sounds like he has, anyway. And F1 engines, so end of that worry.

I notice MW was referring to them as "Daimler". ???

[alg7_munif]

In Germany, Mercedes is often referred as Daimler. I'm sure that the Daimler is also the name they used to talk among themselves.

Edited by alg7_munif, 01 November 2009 - 18:11.

[femi]

here as well

undersquare, on Nov 1 2009, 16:46, said:

BBC 5-Live reported that too.

I had very much sensed that the meeting in Abu Dhabi was going to be a truce meeting and had posted this a couple of time on this forum this week.
Mclaren had no objections to Mercedes sponsoring other teams in F1 - it is how they do it that was the problem; the details as mentioned by Red Bull's boss.

Mclaren are not going to be second to nobody. This suggessts to me that they will keep all the priveleges they had.

I had read in some online newsfeed that certain members of the Merc. board are concerned about ditching Mclaren for Brawn especially after seeing how they were unable to keep their cars ahead during the season. Someone had asked me where this was but I don't know anylonger. I might even have posted the link somewhere on this board.

Mercedes (reading between the lines of Haug's statements) must have been very impressed by Mclaren's recovery this year and I am willing to bet that there is some confidence in what they have seen in the development of the MP-25

It is no brainer to realise that 75% of Brawn is piece of change compared to 40% of Mclaren group.

As a consequence of these statements from Mercedes, I would expect the following within the next week or so:

Red Bull will announce an engine deal with Mercedes - I expect Mclaren to lift the veto (I personally don't like this but it is give and take)
KIMI will be announced as Mclaren partner for 2010; I think we should expect a contract of more than 1 year.

btw guys, this is no insider info - just my read on the events.

[femi]

mkay, on Nov 1 2009, 17:01, said:

Who wants to guess how complicated the new diffuser will be?

Triple? Quad?

I think it is going to be a complex hybrid solution. The DD as a concept was a good starting point.

[Simon Says]

De Jokke, on Nov 1 2009, 17:15, said:

I think it's gonna be mcl or ferrari in command followed by one of the two and RBR. I think brawn will only be the 4th best team come bahrain.

I'm thinking more of Red Bull to be honest. If they get Merc engines then I think everybody has a very big problem. Adrain Newey will fully integrate the diffuser which was extremely hard to get working on his cars.

[undersquare]

alg7_munif, on Nov 1 2009, 18:11, said:

In Germany, Mercedes is often referred as Daimler. I'm sure that the Daimler is also the name they used to talk among themselves.

Well Norby said "Mercedes", Martin said "Daimler" all the time. 4 times in fact. Agreed it may be nothing, they don't need two car brands, but then they don't need two F1 teams either.

[Simon Says]

femi, on Nov 1 2009, 19:36, said:

here as well

I had very much sensed that the meeting in Abu Dhabi was going to be a truce meeting and had posted this a couple of time on this forum this week.
Mclaren had no objections to Mercedes sponsoring other teams in F1 - it is how they do it that was the problem; the details as mentioned by Red Bull's boss.

Mclaren are not going to be second to nobody. This suggessts to me that they will keep all the priveleges they had.

I had read in some online newsfeed that certain members of the Merc. board are concerned about ditching Mclaren for Brawn especially after seeing how they were unable to keep their cars ahead during the season. Someone had asked me where this was but I don't know anylonger. I might even have posted the link somewhere on this board.

Mercedes (reading between the lines of Haug's statements) must have been very impressed by Mclaren's recovery this year and I am willing to bet that there is some confidence in what they have seen in the development of the MP-25

It is no brainer to realise that 75% of Brawn is piece of change compared to 40% of Mclaren group.

As a consequence of these statements from Mercedes, I would expect the following within the next week or so:

Red Bull will announce an engine deal with Mercedes - I expect Mclaren to lift the veto (I personally don't like this but it is give and take)
KIMI will be announced as Mclaren partner for 2010; I think we should expect a contract of more than 1 year.

btw guys, this is no insider info - just my read on the events.

Without Mclaren Mercedes would be nowhere. It's only logical if Mclaren has a veto over Mercedes imo.

[Anomnader]

undersquare, on Nov 1 2009, 18:43, said:

Well Norby said "Mercedes", Martin said "Daimler" all the time. 4 times in fact. Agreed it may be nothing, they don't need two car brands, but then they don't need two F1 teams either.

Aslong as we have a good engine, they are supplying money, then if they want to I'd be happy with

vodafone-mclaren-smartcar

[undersquare]

femi, on Nov 1 2009, 18:36, said:

here as well

I had very much sensed that the meeting in Abu Dhabi was going to be a truce meeting and had posted this a couple of time on this forum this week.
Mclaren had no objections to Mercedes sponsoring other teams in F1 - it is how they do it that was the problem; the details as mentioned by Red Bull's boss.
....I would expect the following within the next week or so:

Red Bull will announce an engine deal with Mercedes - I expect Mclaren to lift the veto (I personally don't like this but it is give and take)
KIMI will be announced as Mclaren partner for 2010; I think we should expect a contract of more than 1 year.

I agree it was a truce meeting. But it's clearly not in Mac's interest to have RBR equipped with Merc engines. So how is it in Merc's interest? It can't be really, unless they see themselves as divorced from the team to some extent.

And there's the road car conflict, in effect the McLaren-Mercedes F1 team is promoting McLaren road cars against AMG-Mercedes road cars.

You have to be right about the performance issue I think, there are so many conflicts. Quite wierd though, a bit unstable, as an alliance.

[Stefanaus]

the development they did on this car was amazing. i recall Eddie Jordan once saying that this "was possibly the worst F1 car McLaren has ever buit". Earlier in the Spring and in the Summer that was the case. but then they sorted out their problems and did a beautiful job in the past couple of months.

i don't think the car was bad to begin with. likewise ferrari they had a "standard" diffuser. although that had an impact, the real problem with this year's car was weight distribution. once they sorted it out and developed their own double diffuser concept, the car began to perform.

[undersquare]

Anomnader, on Nov 1 2009, 18:46, said:

Aslong as we have a good engine, they are supplying money, then if they want to I'd be happy with

vodafone-mclaren-smartcar

Smart, there's a thought.

I can just imagine the threads though

[Anomnader]

undersquare, on Nov 1 2009, 19:09, said:

Smart, there's a thought.

I can just imagine the threads though

Some how I don't think Lewis would like his new company car...

[femi]

undersquare, on Nov 1 2009, 19:58, said:

I agree it was a truce meeting. But it's clearly not in Mac's interest to have RBR equipped with Merc engines. So how is it in Merc's interest? It can't be really, unless they see themselves as divorced from the team to some extent.

And there's the road car conflict, in effect the McLaren-Mercedes F1 team is promoting McLaren road cars against AMG-Mercedes road cars.

You have to be right about the performance issue I think, there are so many conflicts. Quite wierd though, a bit unstable, as an alliance.

You know what, I will be real glad if Mclaren maintains the veto.

[ATM_Andy]

Anomnader, on Nov 1 2009, 19:10, said:

Some how I don't think Lewis would like his new company car...

Lewis used to have a Smart Roadster albeit Brabus one, but still a Smart Roadster.

[Anomnader]

Could have being a big marketing boost if they had tempted to make use of it.

The Smart Roadster Lewis Edition

[grunge]

hey andy,any news on whos going to do the ''youngster'' testing for mclaren.

[ATM_Andy]

grunge, on Nov 1 2009, 19:20, said:

hey andy,any news on whos going to do the ''youngster'' testing for mclaren.

Traditionally it's whoever wins the McLaren Autosport BRDC award.

[grunge]

thanx
another coupla questions if yer still around


1.are the recent upgrades weve seen from mac going to be sunbstantial help for development of the mp4-25 considering MW mentioned it as a radical new design

2.the reason for narrower front is the excessive rear tire wear this year..why not for wider rears instead of narrower fronts..ive heard the reason for this is that bridgestone done have the right tools right now to build wider rears..that doesnt seem logical to me at all..could u elaborate

3.the reason the movable rear wing idea has been scrapped from the regulations(yes that didnt work this year,but next year was supposed to have movable rear wings(albeit manually),automatid front wings and both their movement degrees were increased to 10 as compared to 5 degrees this year)

[raiseyourfistfor]

grunge, on Nov 1 2009, 15:36, said:

2.the reason for narrower front is the excessive rear tire wear this year..why not for wider rears instead of narrower fronts..ive heard the reason for this is that bridgestone done have the right tools right now to build wider rears..that doesnt seem logical to me at all..could u elaborate

Because Bridgestone already has a machine that makes the narrower front tires that they used in 1997 and also in indy. If they were to make wider rears they would have to buy new machines to make that kind of tire

[grunge]

raiseyourfistfor, on Nov 2 2009, 00:42, said:

Because Bridgestone already has a machine that makes the narrower front tires that they used in 1997 and also in indy. If they were to make wider rears they would have to buy new machines to make that kind of tire

thanks for clearing that.

u wouldnt normally expect such a thing considering this is the pinnacle of motorsport.

[Wouter]

undersquare, on Nov 1 2009, 19:43, said:

Well Norby said "Mercedes", Martin said "Daimler" all the time. 4 times in fact. Agreed it may be nothing, they don't need two car brands, but then they don't need two F1 teams either.

Daimler is not a car brand (anymore) - not a German one, at least (there is/was an English Daimler, though). Daimler was the name of the person who founded what is now the Mercedes brand, and he sold his cars under his own name at first. After a car named "Mercedes" (a Spanish girls name) won a race, every paper referred to it as a "Mercedes" instead of the proper make, "Daimler". For marketing reasons, Daimler promptly named all of his cars Mercedes and after the merger with Benz this became Mercedes-Benz (though again the name Mercedes was the one that stuck). The company was still named Daimler though, then Daimler-Benz and much, much later Daimler-Chrysler. The Benz family wasn't happy their name was dropped from the company, and now it's called Daimler AG after Chrysler was cut loose again. The cars continue to be named Mercedes-Benz, though, with the obvious exception of the Smart brand.

[Wouter]

Simon Says, on Nov 1 2009, 19:45, said:

Without Mclaren Mercedes would be nowhere. It's only logical if Mclaren has a veto over Mercedes imo.

A relationship works both ways, that's logical (unless you want it to end soon). Both sides have to give and take.

Anyway, Mercedes won both WDC and WCC this year with Brawn. I agree that longterm McLaren offers better chances of succes, but it is not exactly "being nowhere".

I suspect/hope that the second driver will now be known soon. The uncertainty regarding Mercedes seems to have stalled things.

[Impellam]

Anomnader, on Nov 1 2009, 18:46, said:

vodafone-mclaren-smartcar

Sorry for going off on a tangent, but this statement is not as far off as you may think. I remember that whilst MTC was being built, RD believed that the car parking areas were going to be insufficient for the number of staff eventually working there, so asked Bob Ilman (Group FD) to cost out how much it would be to provide a Smart Car to every employee (based on 700 at the time) so that they could increse the number of parking spaces. Apparently, the idea was met with some resistance as the ungrateful wretches didn't wan't to dob in their Mercs for a Mclaren Smart.