174 replies to this topic

[george1981]

http://www.planetf1....ttel-Over-Lewis

Luca Di Montezemolo says he would choose Vettel over Hamilton. Any thoughts on this? I would have said that next year given their respective teams Vettel will be more of a threat than Hamilton so personally I'd try to play mind games with Vettel, and say that Hamilton would be my choice of driver.
Maybe there's some truth to the rumours about Vettel signing some sort of agreement with Ferrari?

[LuckyStrike1]

And he also dimisses any chance of Vettel joining Ferrari as long as Alonso is there. Alonso is 31 so it's not a wild guess to assume he will probably stay in F1, and thus Ferrari, for at least 5-6 more years. Who knows where Vettel will be during that time so it doesn't say much. He might not be an option for them anyway.

and it's Di Montezemolo - he can find a lot of new pets to pat on the cheek during that time.

Edited by LuckyStrike1, 21 December 2012 - 12:05.

[gillesthegenius]

Well, what Luca says is actually very interesting. Was he trying to mend things with Vettel or was he giving a thinly veiled warning to Alonso that if he doesnt deliver, then there other options with a lot of potential. If I was Alonso, I wouldnt particularly like seeing my boss saying such encouraging words about my nemesis #1.

[matzy]

Well, what Luca says is actually very interesting. Was he trying to mend things with Vettel or was he giving a thinly veiled warning to Alonso that if he doesnt deliver, then there other options with a lot of potential. If I was Alonso, I wouldnt particularly like seeing my boss saying such encouraging words about my nemesis #1.

Didn't he say something similar about Alonso, when Kimi was still driving for the team?

Joking aside, I cannot imagine Luca blames Alonso for the "failure to deliver".

[ensign14]

You'd think he'd be more interested in signing the driver who beat Alonso.

[george1981]

Is there any chance that Ferrari might be getting a little impatient with Alonso? He's been runner up 2 of the 3 years he's been with the team. Although both years Alonso couldn't be blamed for not winning, in 2010 it was a Ferrari strategy call in 2012 it was a slow car and some badluck. Pre-Schumacher Ferrari had a reputation for scapegoating, maybe LDM is beginning to sharpen the knives in case Alonso doesn't win next year.

[showtime]

And here we go...
I would suggest that you read the whole thing before jumping into the conspiracy wagon but I guess fantasy is always more fun.

[Anonymous]

Luca Di Montezemolo says

I stopped reading here.

[maverick69]

Well. You would say that about the guy that you've (allegedly) signed a pre contract with

[BenettonB192]

Ther's no way Ferrari can ignore Vettel if he keeps winning. Alonso still onboard or not.
Imo one of the reasons Alonso praises himself so much. His status is secure right now at his team but he knows it can swing quickly if Vettel keeps beating him in the WDC. Ferrari see themself as the best team so they have a natural interest to sign the driver with the best accolades.

What's more is that Vettel seems the most likely candidate to initiate a repeat of the Schumi-Ferrari era. Obviously that's what they had in mind with Alonso but it doesn't work so far. With Vettel onboard i think they would have a good chance to break the latin circlejerk (imo one of the reasons Ferrari doesnt look as strong as they used to) and snatch some of the top RBR talent too. Kinda what happend with Benetton when Schumi went to Ferrari. For instance i wouldnt be surprised to see Horner go where Vettel goes.

[2ms]

Vettel at Ferrari would end the same way Raikkonen did.

Raikkonen won a WDC with them, so maybe they appeared to be like Schumacher at first, but Raikkonen didn't have the laser-like obsession with winning and subservience to his team that Ferrari desires, and they ultimately began to resent him for it.

Vettel also is a bit aloof and doesn't treat F1 as his entire life. Ferrari may be able to win with drivers like Vettel and Raikkonen, but ultimately they (or at least LdM) would begin to feel insulted by him, demoting him from first driver and then seeing him leave in one way or another.

Ferrari wants drivers that will sacrifice their lives for them. Vettel would not be like Schumacher or their current drivers in this regard. He would be like Raikkonen, not even learning Italian, being seen doing other things, etc.

I predict they would win a championship with him and then make him second driver. I'd say they, alternatively, might have become more cautious after the last 5 years of no championships, but I know from experience, this type of thing is simply in the culture. Vettel would not be compatible with Ferrari for more than a year or two.

Edited by 2ms, 21 December 2012 - 13:16.

[seahawk]

There was no Schumacher-Ferrari era, it was the Byrne @ Ferrari era. If Vettel could lure Newey to Ferrari, Ferrari needs to sign Vettel at all costs, but that is very unlikely.

[rasul]

Vettel also is a bit aloof and considers F1 his job but not his life.

Er, what? Are we talking about the same Vettel? Vettel who is obsessed with F1?

[fabr68]

So 2017 at the earliest then...

[UPRC]

I'd probably personally take Hamilton over Vettel. Over the years it feels as if Hamilton has had to prove that he can cope with a variety of different situations given how random the McLaren performs at times. Vettel's unstoppable Red Bull is always planted at the front, so he just gets to drive off and enjoy the day most of the time. It's been a few years now and I'm still unable to say how I think Vettel fares when he's in the midfield, and I feel that I should be able to say how I think ANY driver would fare.

[2ms]

Er, what? Are we talking about the same Vettel? Vettel who is obsessed with F1?

Schumacher and Alonso are ruthless and obsessed at one end of the spectrum of current drivers, with Raikkonen at the other end of the spectrum. Vettel is certainly on the Raikkonen side of it

[seahawk]

Schumacher and Alonso are ruthless and obsessed at one end of the spectrum of current drivers, with Raikkonen at the other end of the spectrum. Vettel is certainly on the Raikkonen side of it

I think this is not the case. Vettel works very hard.

[H2H]

Schumacher and Alonso are ruthless and obsessed at one end of the spectrum of current drivers, with Raikkonen at the other end of the spectrum. Vettel is certainly on the Raikkonen side of it

Ruthless and obsessed arguably not. Steely determined, completely focused and very hard working yes.

[OneAndOnly]

As Scuderia fan I'd rather see Hamilton in red outfit, than Vettel. Hamilton + Ferrari would be perfect combo (Vettel would fit in perfectly for sure, but Hamilton is faster IMO).

[rasul]

Schumacher and Alonso are ruthless and obsessed at one end of the spectrum of current drivers, with Raikkonen at the other end of the spectrum. Vettel is certainly on the Raikkonen side of it

Vettel and Raikkonen are very different people, with very different personalities. I fail to see any resemblance between them. If they're friends, it doesn't mean they're alike.

He would be like Raikkonen, not even learning Italian, being seen doing other things, etc.

I've got the exact opposite impression about Vettel. The kid doesn't seem to care about anything other than F1. Even Newey has said that Vettel is very hard working, and that he's always in the paddock in the evening, speaking with his engineers.

[Seanspeed]

I dont think I've ever agreed with anything 2ms says, so I'm not gonna spend any time on that.

I'd personally like to see Vettel at Ferrari over Hamilton just because I'd enjoy cheering for him more. Just cant warm up to Lewis.

[ayali]

Vettel also is a bit aloof and doesn't treat F1 as his entire life. Ferrari may be able to win with drivers like Vettel and Raikkonen, but ultimately they (or at least LdM) would begin to feel insulted by him, demoting him from first driver and then seeing him leave in one way or another.

Ferrari wants drivers that will sacrifice their lives for them. Vettel would not be like Schumacher or their current drivers in this regard. He would be like Raikkonen, not even learning Italian, being seen doing other things, etc.

Like others already said you've pegged Seb Vettel completely wrong.
One of his strong points is the dedication and Schumacher-like work ethic, it has been reported several times that he stays in the garage until very late to be with his engineers and mechanics while thet work late. Here from a recent article:

Vettel relishes all this. He is smart, he was born in the electronic age, and he inherited Michael Schumacher's work ethic—he's the guy badgering the Pirelli engineer about the latest compound, and he's often one of the last to leave the garage at night.

Oh and regarding the Italian, he already speaks that as he made a point of learning it during his Toro Rosso days

Anyway de Montezemolo saying the obvious thing, surely now he would pick the fast, intelligent, drama free, hard working Vettel over Hamilton but for now Ferrari has everything it wants in Fernando.

[BillBald]

I'd probably personally take Hamilton over Vettel. Over the years it feels as if Hamilton has had to prove that he can cope with a variety of different situations given how random the McLaren performs at times. Vettel's unstoppable Red Bull is always planted at the front, so he just gets to drive off and enjoy the day most of the time. It's been a few years now and I'm still unable to say how I think Vettel fares when he's in the midfield, and I feel that I should be able to say how I think ANY driver would fare.

I think we have a pretty good idea of how Vettel fares in the midfield.

In Abu Dhabi and Brazil we saw him doing a lot of overtaking, but still having a lot of contact with other cars.

[ayali]

I dont think I've ever agreed with anything 2ms says, so I'm not gonna spend any time on that.

I'd personally like to see Vettel at Ferrari over Hamilton just because I'd enjoy cheering for him more. Just cant warm up to Lewis.

Lol I should have gone with that, he indeed got Vettel completely wrong

Ditto to your second sentence but for now Fernando is just fine for me

[apoka]

Ferrari wants drivers that will sacrifice their lives for them. Vettel would not be like Schumacher or their current drivers in this regard. He would be like Raikkonen, not even learning Italian, being seen doing other things, etc.

Vettel already said "I'll speak Italian when I go to Ferrari" ( http://totalf1.com/f...alian_reporter/ ). He has learned a bit at TR already, so he would almost certainly do so at Ferrari. I think Vettel at Ferrari would work just fine, but right now both RB and Ferrari have their star drivers and don't need to change.

[gillesthegenius]

And here we go...
I would suggest that you read the whole thing before jumping into the conspiracy wagon but I guess fantasy is always more fun.

Conspiracy or not, it isnt a particulartly comfortable situation to find oneself in when you boss is lavishing so much praise on your nemesis #1 while you try your best to bring him down with talk like 'Im fighting Newey'.

[BackOnTop]

There is just too much "talk" of Vettel to Ferrari by Luca himself.... As well as the italian media during this season about pre-contract for 2014.

On Alonso's side, the spanish media has been very quite on this "Vettel" sustained talks. Not a good sign for Alonso i guess. There was details given that Alonso is signed till 2016!!!

It always looked a bit too much from Ferrari's side to give a 'driver' that many years.... So it is logical that there has to be a "performance & results" clause in Ferrari's Favour.

Alonso, having failed to win anything for Ferrari in 3 years, surely has lost out in that 'clause'.... Hence the desperation from Alonso & the his Spanish media about the Miracle of Rules regarding yellow flags. When Alonso had a 40 points advantage mid-season, Luca stated that he wouldn't give Alonso a strong team-mate only if he wins Ferrari some things.

At the same time, Vettel prenup rumour started. Alonso having lost the championship this year... Might also have lost his 2014-2016 safety net. Alonso might be told Vettel is coming in, with him or without. Schumi-Monza type situtation.

PS- Kimi could only trigger his 2010 contract extension because he had won a WDC & 2 WCC & get paid 17 million not to drive for that year. Alonso might not have that automatic extnsion till 2016 anymore. Who knows, except that Vettel is talked more as a Ferrari driver already.

Edited by BackOnTop, 21 December 2012 - 15:41.

[fabr68]

Alonso, having failed to win anything for Ferrari in 3 years, surely has lost out in that 'clause'....

Most team principals agreed that Vettel could not do better in Alonso's shoes.

Nice try though.

[BackOnTop]

Conspiracy or not, it isnt a particulartly comfortable situation to find oneself in when you boss is lavishing so much praise on your nemesis #1 while you try your best to bring him down with talk like 'Im fighting Newey'.

Alonso chose the worst time to get matched & beaten by Massa in final 4 races of 2012. Luca needed the slightest excuse to fire his last 2 Champions... I wonder how much love he'll have for his Non-Champion driver, who called Luca's car as **** the whole season.

[Rikhart]

Sounds to me like the first signs of alonso getting squeezed out, like others have pointed out. And i´m sure he´s really enjoying it! This team will never learn.

[fabr68]

Alonso chose the worst time to get matched & beaten by Massa in final 4 races of 2012. Luca needed the slightest excuse to fire his last 2 Champions... I wonder how much love he'll have for his Non-Champion driver, who called Luca's car as **** the whole season.

So much BS, it is amazing!!!

When Massa beats Alonso by 50+ points over a season, then we can talk about driver performance clauses and Ferrari firing him.

Edited by fabr68, 21 December 2012 - 16:05.

[BackOnTop]

Most team principals agreed that Vettel could not do better in Alonso's shoes.

Nice try though.

Team principles also thinks Bernie & FIA should gove them more power & money.

Nobody really cares about that... Except for alonso fanboys. Vettel is Champion, get over it.

[BenettonB192]

Vettel also is a bit aloof and doesn't treat F1 as his entire life.

I think you got that part completely wrong about Vettel. He's probably the most hard working and detail obsessed driver since Schumacher, who's always willing to go the extra mile for his success. Like for instance when he was the only driver to make a personal visit to the Pirelli factory before they entered F1.

[mnmracer]

Most team principals agreed that Vettel could not do better in Alonso's shoes this year.

Fixed that for you ;-)

[fabr68]

Fixed that for you ;-)

Thank you. Glad to see your honesty.

[BackOnTop]

I think you got that part completely wrong about Vettel. He's probably the most hard working and detail obsessed driver since Schumacher, who's always willing to go the extra mile for his success. Like for instance when he was the only driver to make a personal visit to the Pirelli factory before they entered F1.

Why do people need to attack suggestions that Vettel can also be a bit aloof!!

It's not a bad thing at all if a triple world champion has the characteristics combination of both Schumi & Kimi. They both happen to be Ferrari world champions as well... So Luca is basically eyeing the best of both worlds with Vettel.

Kimi, in any case, has one of the strongest personalities & racing attitude of this current lot. Vettel surely knows & respects Kimi to the extent of actually being a few to be friends with him.

It is clearly noticable that Vettel gets along with both Kimi & Schumi... and would love to emulate their feat by becoming World Champions with Ferrari.

Edited by BackOnTop, 21 December 2012 - 16:24.

[BenettonB192]

There is nothing that reminds me of Kimi when i see how Vettel approaches F1. Completely different characters in that regard. Both quick but very different approaches.
People roll their eyes when Vettel keeps talking and talking in interviews. How does that make him even remotely as aloof as Kimi?

[plumtree]

Like others already said you've pegged Seb Vettel completely wrong.
One of his strong points is the dedication and Schumacher-like work ethic, it has been reported several times that he stays in the garage until very late to be with his engineers and mechanics while thet work late. Here from a recent article:

Oh and regarding the Italian, he already speaks that as he made a point of learning it during his Toro Rosso days

Anyway de Montezemolo saying the obvious thing, surely now he would pick the fast, intelligent, drama free, hard working Vettel over Hamilton but for now Ferrari has everything it wants in Fernando.

Maybe far from fluent yet, but I have no doubt that he would be willing to learn it, when/if the time comes.

[Sakae]

Most team principals agreed that Vettel could not do better in Alonso's shoes.

When was that?

[2ms]

Well I stand corrected on Vettel's style. If he says he will speak Italian and you all think he'll be all about being "Mr. Ferrari" with Ferrari feeling that he shows the proper reverence etc for them, then they should absolutely get him as soon as possible. I've generally taken his relatively relaxed and easy-going appearance in interviews for being indicative of his personality.

He certainly doesn't appear to have that Napoleonic? desire to crush everyone no matter what the expense that Schumacher and Alonso have. But I think it's indeed the having "proper respect for Ferrari" that is most important to Ferrari. And I think his personality is actually more conducive to actual results than Schumacher's or Alonso's in this era where there are more than just one or two competitive cars each season.

That all having been said, I don't really see any reason to think he would leave Red Bull.

Edited by 2ms, 21 December 2012 - 17:00.

[2ms]

Alonso chose the worst time to get matched & beaten by Massa in final 4 races of 2012. Luca needed the slightest excuse to fire his last 2 Champions... I wonder how much love he'll have for his Non-Champion driver, who called Luca's car as **** the whole season.

You seem to forget about where their money comes from.

[kosmos]

You seem to forget about where their money comes from.

Selling cars?.

[np93]

See, now if we actually listened to Crazy Luca and took 3 car teams (I think it's a bad move that goes against the spirit of the sport) then we could have Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel all in the same team.

[fabr68]

See, now if we actually listened to Crazy Luca and took 3 car teams (I think it's a bad move that goes against the spirit of the sport) then we could have Hamilton, Alonso and Vettel all in the same team.

That would make it much worst if Webber goes and wins the WDC with a Red Bull.

[dans79]

Of course Luca wants Vettel, he is still a child and thus can be manipulated. He has thrown at least 3 temper tantrums this year alone i can think of.

1. complaining to the team to do something because he couldn't get past the much slower Button.
2. complaining because he got a drive through for running Alonso of the track and Italy
3. crying that Karthikeyan didn't jump out of his way and that's why Hamilton got by in Austin


Hamilton has matured a lot since last year, and is becoming more and more like Alonso, in that he is not afraid to criticize his team for short comings.

[Kingshark]

When was that?

http://totalf1.com/d..._of_2012_season

http://totalf1.com/d...so_over_Vettel/

[F1Champion]

Luca, way to motivate your number one driver by already looking for his replacement! That will make him feel good knowing the top boss admires him highly.

[np93]

"That would make it much worst if Webber goes and wins the WDC with a Red Bull."

Good point, but Webber has never finished 2nd in a Championship, and this year there were drivers from 3 different manufacturers in front of him, so I'd say we were safe

Edited by np93, 21 December 2012 - 18:13.

[Sakae]

http://totalf1.com/d..._of_2012_season

http://totalf1.com/d...so_over_Vettel/

Not really convincing enough for me, sorry.

[Kingshark]

Not really convincing enough for me, sorry.

Sure. That completely invalidates his point, because those sources that clearly prove his point, aren't convincing enough for you.