1977 replies to this topic

[artista]

Part I.

Continue the discussion here, please.

[ViMaMo]

So how is it going ?? .............  

 

This being pointed at some of the wild speculations going on here and people who are fanning those flames , when is it going to blow up on their faces? Remember few weeks ago, Alonso was almost "without a drive" and that blew up on their faces. 

Edited by ViMaMo, 07 March 2015 - 11:55.

[kimster89]

Im absolutely stunned that there is part II of this thread.

 

Season realy cant start soon enough. People are obv bored.

[kpastri]

Is Alonso's career threatened? Is there any possibility that he will never race again?

This is the only thing that worries me.

Only when I see him again inside the cockpit I will feel relieved.
I don't care if he misses one or two races and I care even less about the mess McLaren made with the after the crash information - I don't believe much of what the teams say in public anyway.

Edited by kpastri, 07 March 2015 - 12:02.

[HoldenRT]

Part 2..

[JHSingo]

Part 2?! Crikey, and there was me thinking 80 pages were more than enough...

[brr]

Remember few weeks ago, Alonso was almost "without a drive" and that blew up on their faces. 

 

Remember a few days ago Alonso was "uninjured and fine".

[NoSanityClause]

Part 2?! Crikey, and there was me thinking 80 pages were more than enough...

A dead horse has plenty of inertia 

[Sheepmachine]

Why does this need a part 2? What more is there to discuss?

[Lotus53B]

Part 2?! Crikey, and there was me thinking 80 pages were more than enough...

Oh please, the internet, the off-season, and tolerant moderation, this is just the start

 

I'm going through newspapers and medical text books to see if I can dream up something suitable to keep it going another 80 pages...

[SealTheDiffuser]

look how the apologists pop in like flies (edit: and I thought they wanted to stop it...)

Edited by SealTheDiffuser, 07 March 2015 - 12:17.

[ViMaMo]

Remember a few days ago Alonso was "uninjured and fine".

 

I remember  and he is doing fine right now, hope to see him race in Malaysia. No need of over speculation thats all I said. Right now the media is like a crazy wind cock. 

[TheSnowman]

What's incredible is that the first Alonso thread got more replies in 14 days than Schumacher's accident thread has got in 14 months.

[brr]

What's incredible is that the first Alonso thread got more replies in 14 days than Schumacher's accident thread has got in 14 months.

 

I suppose its because this isn't a skiing forum.

[F1ultimate]

Remember a few days ago Alonso was "uninjured and fine".

 

What an utter, inexcusable PR disaster by Mclaren. Why not come clean with some of the facts in the beginning instead of letting speculation go wild?

[HoldenRT]

In fairness to the people who are obsessed with conspiracies or Alonso, this incident was pretty much the only noteworthy or surprising thing that happened all winter.

[Jvr]

Aki Hintsa who has been attending Alonso was being interviewed due to his new book in Finnish television. He was asked about Alonso and he categorically said he cannot comment anything of his medical condition. However, he added that he believes that Alonso will make a return, perhaps stronger than ever.

[AustinF1]

look how the apologists pop in like flies (edit: and I thought they wanted to stop it...)

Apologists?

[extremeday]

"And what did you expect? That they will tell us:

1) "Yep, our driver was electrocuted" ?

or

2) "Yep, he lost his conciuousness before the accident" ?

Of course they won't admit the truth, because the 1. scenario puts them in a really bad light and the 2. one may cause, that Alonso will be banned for racing, if he looses his conciousness without a reason.

Hence we have all the stories about some freak tornado pushing him into the wall, which I hope no serious human being believs"

 

@VincentVega, Do you want stories? stories about the McLaren-Alonso saga, for example? Ok, we have those stories where Alonso will never ever come back to McLaren, all bridges burned; Ron Dennis will never ever allow it. We have those about Alonso never wanting to deal with Ron Dennis again. We have that Honda hired Alonso, then we have that McLaren hired him, then we have both of them, then Honda again. We have that Alonso has exit clauses in his McLaren contract, then we have Ron Dennis saying that those clauses do not exist. We have Alonso retiring from F1 because he does not have where to go. We have McLaren and Alonso waiting for Mercedes-Hamilton contract, contract that has not been signed yet, we have Alonso delaying everything because of that reason but then we have that Alonso signed his contract weeks ago, even before the Spanish king announced it. We have Ferrari team principal, Mr Mattiacci, totally outsmarting Alonso, the driver was pushed to the corner and would have to accept whatever McLaren offered to him, then we had Mr Mattiacci being fired, McLaren paying a huge salary to Alonso and bringing Alonso people from Ferrari. We have Alonso being electrocuted, then we have that it is impossible to be electrocuted, we have that Alonso fainted prior to the crash, then we have McLaren saying that telemetry tells them that Alonso was braking before the crash, then we have that Alonso was unconscious because the tyre marks are not from his car, because it is impossible to crash so slowly, because that was a minor accident, because Alonso never ever makes mistakes, because he was ill before the crash, but then he wasn’t, but then he was again. Then we have that the speed was 135 kph, then we have 135 mph, then we have 135 kph again. We have that Vettel saw everything, then we have that he only saw the final part, the crash. We have videos, drivers comments,showing and saying that it was really windy that day, then we have an anonymous photographer, up to now, saying it wasn´t, so it wasn´t. Then we have that the wind theory is impossible to believe, but Alonso suddenly fainting because of an unknown reason that was never mentioned before, for few seconds, right where there is a concrete wall that could have killed him, right where there are not spectators who could have shown many videos about the accident, is a total plausible theory. Then we have Ron Dennis, Boullier, Alonso people, saying that Alonso is fine, and doctors accepting it, then we have that they are hiding something, because, because something is fishy here.  Of course, facts are never required in cases like this.

 

All the above is the press.

 

If Alonso was electrocuted, doctors know it and they would never allow McLaren lie about it because that would mean sitting Alonso in an unsafety car on purpouse, endanger Alonso life and other drivers lives on purpose, so if something happened to Alonso or other drivers, the doctors would be among the first ones to be blamed. We could talk about Alonso himself, who shoud be plain stupid to accept McLaren lies.

 

If Alonso suffers a serious disease, something that can affect his driving, something that can affect his safety, his health and even his life, there is no reason to believe that doctors would allow McLaren to lie so openly about their patient condition. Why? Read the previous paragraph. In addition, Alonso would be the first one to be absolutely concerned about it, the first one who wouldn´t want jokes about it, the first one who wouldn’t want those around him openly lying about his condition, the first one who wouldn´t want to risk his life. Why? Because he is not plain stupid? Because he cares about his own life much more than you do? Because he is not an insane person who pretends to be perfectly healthy when he knows his life and the lives of others could be in danger because of his lies? In addition, McLaren asked the FIA to investigate the cause of the accident and the first thing the FIA must do is ask for Alonso medical tests, all of them, many tests according to McLaren. If McLaren and doctors are crazy enough to keep lying, then the FIA will know it because those tests tell if Alonso is actually fine and not medical issue has been found. 

 

How can McLaren know what actually happened if they were not there? If there are not videos? If Alonso cannot remember? Investigating, with telemetry, asking witnesses, drawing conclusions from the data they have, waiting for medical tests. What do they need? Time, they need time. They cannot tell anything about Alonso medical condition until doctors have the results about Alonso medical condition. If they tell right after the crash, Alonso was unconscious, he suffers from amnesia, he was disoriented, he was agitated, he was sedated, without knowing the results of the tests, without knowing what truly was Alonso medical condition, they would be misinforming everybody. They get the results of the tests, many tests, then they talk about the results, about Alonso being fine, about the amnesia and about the concussion, when they have all the information. You have Ron Dennis speaking the Ron Dennis language, that is all. 

[kimster89]

Aki Hintsa who has been attending Alonso was being interviewed due to his new book in Finnish television. He was asked about Alonso and he categorically said he cannot comment anything of his medical condition. However, he added that he believes that Alonso will make a return, perhaps stronger than ever.

Perhaps the bump in his head made alonso even stronger in mind?

 

A cyborg?

[Lotus53B]

Aki Hintsa who has been attending Alonso was being interviewed due to his new book in Finnish television. He was asked about Alonso and he categorically said he cannot comment anything of his medical condition. However, he added that he believes that Alonso will make a return, perhaps stronger than ever.

Aye, the break will help him recharge his batteries.

[SealTheDiffuser]

Apologists?

 

"It was just a normal testing accident. Nothing to discuss here." that is the Mantra of the apologists.

[Brother Fox]

I reckon 3 of those first 80 pages are people saying in their most disapproving tone:

"I can't believe this thread is now XXX pages long"

Anyone saying 'what's left to discuss?' either isn't paying attention or has made up their mind what they want to know. Or both.

[Mandzipop]

I'll just point out that the old thread had nearly reached 4000 posts. We have to close the topic down when it gets near the 4000 post mark.

 

So, as you were.

[AustinF1]

"It was just a normal testing accident. Nothing to discuss here." that is the Mantra of the apologists.

I guess I'm not clear what it is that we're supposedly apologizing for.

 

But by all means, carry on with this ... whatever you want to call it.

[YoungGun]

I'll just point out that the old thread had nearly reached 4000 posts. We have to close the topic down when it gets near the 4000 post mark.

 

So, as you were.

 

 

Thank you. It was brutally slow opening the thread.

[Nicktendo86]

Amazing post extreameday.

[kimster89]

Why do they close the thread when they reach 4000 posts? AFAIK internet dosnt have any specific limits.

[turssi]

Forum sw handles its database slowly after reaching certain sizes. Should update the solution really.

[krumpli12]

 

"And what did you expect? That they will tell us:

1) "Yep, our driver was electrocuted" ?

or

2) "Yep, he lost his conciuousness before the accident" ?

Of course they won't admit the truth, because the 1. scenario puts them in a really bad light and the 2. one may cause, that Alonso will be banned for racing, if he looses his conciousness without a reason.

Hence we have all the stories about some freak tornado pushing him into the wall, which I hope no serious human being believs"

 

@VincentVega, Do you want stories? stories about the McLaren-Alonso saga, for example? Ok, we have those stories where Alonso will never ever come back to McLaren, all bridges burned; Ron Dennis will never ever allow it. We have those about Alonso never wanting to deal with Ron Dennis again. We have that Honda hired Alonso, then we have that McLaren hired him, then we have both of them, then Honda again. We have that Alonso has exit clauses in his McLaren contract, then we have Ron Dennis saying that those clauses do not exist. We have Alonso retiring from F1 because he does not have where to go. We have McLaren and Alonso waiting for Mercedes-Hamilton contract, contract that has not been signed yet, we have Alonso delaying everything because of that reason but then we have that Alonso signed his contract weeks ago, even before the Spanish king announced it. We have Ferrari team principal, Mr Mattiacci, totally outsmarting Alonso, the driver was pushed to the corner and would have to accept whatever McLaren offered to him, then we had Mr Mattiacci being fired, McLaren paying a huge salary to Alonso and bringing Alonso people from Ferrari. We have Alonso being electrocuted, then we have that it is impossible to be electrocuted, we have that Alonso fainted prior to the crash, then we have McLaren saying that telemetry tells them that Alonso was braking before the crash, then we have that Alonso was unconscious because the tyre marks are not from his car, because it is impossible to crash so slowly, because that was a minor accident, because Alonso never ever makes mistakes, because he was ill before the crash, but then he wasn’t, but then he was again. Then we have that the speed was 135 kph, then we have 135 mph, then we have 135 kph again. We have that Vettel saw everything, then we have that he only saw the final part, the crash. We have videos, drivers comments,showing and saying that it was really windy that day, then we have an anonymous photographer, up to now, saying it wasn´t, so it wasn´t. Then we have that the wind theory is impossible to believe, but Alonso suddenly fainting because of an unknown reason that was never mentioned before, for few seconds, right where there is a concrete wall that could have killed him, right where there are not spectators who could have shown many videos about the accident, is a total plausible theory. Then we have Ron Dennis, Boullier, Alonso people, saying that Alonso is fine, and doctors accepting it, then we have that they are hiding something, because, because something is fishy here.  Of course, facts are never required in cases like this.

 

All the above is the press.

 

If Alonso was electrocuted, doctors know it and they would never allow McLaren lie about it because that would mean sitting Alonso in an unsafety car on purpouse, endanger Alonso life and other drivers lives on purpose, so if something happened to Alonso or other drivers, the doctors would be among the first ones to be blamed. We could talk about Alonso himself, who shoud be plain stupid to accept McLaren lies.

 

If Alonso suffers a serious disease, something that can affect his driving, something that can affect his safety, his health and even his life, there is no reason to believe that doctors would allow McLaren to lie so openly about their patient condition. Why? Read the previous paragraph. In addition, Alonso would be the first one to be absolutely concerned about it, the first one who wouldn´t want jokes about it, the first one who wouldn’t want those around him openly lying about his condition, the first one who wouldn´t want to risk his life. Why? Because he is not plain stupid? Because he cares about his own life much more than you do? Because he is not an insane person who pretends to be perfectly healthy when he knows his life and the lives of others could be in danger because of his lies? In addition, McLaren asked the FIA to investigate the cause of the accident and the first thing the FIA must do is ask for Alonso medical tests, all of them, many tests according to McLaren. If McLaren and doctors are crazy enough to keep lying, then the FIA will know it because those tests tell if Alonso is actually fine and not medical issue has been found. 

 

How can McLaren know what actually happened if they were not there? If there are not videos? If Alonso cannot remember? Investigating, with telemetry, asking witnesses, drawing conclusions from the data they have, waiting for medical tests. What do they need? Time, they need time. They cannot tell anything about Alonso medical condition until doctors have the results about Alonso medical condition. If they tell right after the crash, Alonso was unconscious, he suffers from amnesia, he was disoriented, he was agitated, he was sedated, without knowing the results of the tests, without knowing what truly was Alonso medical condition, they would be misinforming everybody. They get the results of the tests, many tests, then they talk about the results, about Alonso being fine, about the amnesia and about the concussion, when they have all the information. You have Ron Dennis speaking the Ron Dennis language, that is all. 

 

 

While it was a great post, I do not agree with the "doctors wouldn't let Mclaren" lie parts. They do not have any sort of right to tell McLaren what they should tell. Actually the hospital was forbidden to make any kind of statement and they do not have any legal obligation to report their findings to McLaren or to the FIA but they do have a legal obligation towards their patient to keep his medical records private. Obviously, we can deduct from Ron Dennis' interview that they were informed about what is going on, and they also had their own people there at the hospital. But no, Alonso's "doctors" are not going to announce publicly that "McLaren lies" or "Alonso has a condition": They would be sued within their life.

[doc83]

Well, IF he's so great (training and all) why not personally?

 

Obviously he should be there for many reasons

 

 

showtime:

What's the point in making a trip to the other side of the planet, disturbing his sleep rutine, keeping him from training and when he has to come back for the final medical test and simulation work? 

 

 

1. Show everybody that he is ok
2. Cut all the speculation  (it’s not a good PR)
3. Show support for his team
4. Do PR work
5. Learn more about the car in racing conditions
6. Learn more about opposition
7. Spend time with his mechanics and engineers

 

They pay him millions. If he’s not fit to drive but otherwise great he should at least do PR work. It’s more important than his sleep routine.

 

[trogggy]

 

1. Show everybody that he is ok
2. Cut all the speculation  (it’s not a good PR)
3. Show support for his team
4. Do PR work
5. Learn more about the car in racing conditions
6. Learn more about opposition
7. Spend time with his mechanics and engineers

 

They pay him millions. If he’s not fit to drive but otherwise great he should at least do PR work. It’s more important than his sleep routine.

 

If he were to turn up in Australia it would just turn into even more of a circus than at present.

I can see zero point in doing that.  It wouldn't help the team, if anything it would be a distraction.  The only thing that will quieten this down is when he's back in the car - presumably and hopefully in Malaysia.

Edited by trogggy, 07 March 2015 - 13:25.

[RosannaG]

What an utter, inexcusable PR disaster by Mclaren. Why not come clean with some of the facts in the beginning instead of letting speculation go wild?

 

And by García Abad... I don't think it would be fair to forget the role he has played in this mess...

[ANF]

 

1. Show everybody that he is ok
2. Cut all the speculation  (it’s not a good PR)
3. Show support for his team
4. Do PR work
5. Learn more about the car in racing conditions
6. Learn more about opposition
7. Spend time with his mechanics and engineers

 

They pay him millions. If he’s not fit to drive but otherwise great he should at least do PR work. It’s more important than his sleep routine.

 

PR work? There would be hundreds of journalists following every step he takes, taking pictures, asking the same questions again and again.

It wouldn't do Alonso any good, and it wouldn't make it any easier for Magnussen's side of the garage.

Besides, I can't remember the last time an injured driver attended a race.

[krumpli12]

And by García Abad... I don't think it would be fair to forget the role he has played in this mess...

 

I agree. Though in their defence they were pressed hard to say something preferably immediately, while even themselves didn't know what was going on. My guess is that by now they do, but because it is a private matter they are not going to disclose it. So the wind-concussion scenario will be the official standpoint. And it will be okay by me, if it also means there are no lasting consequences and he can drive safely, If that is the case, then whatever happened is not our business after all. 

[extremeday]

While it was a great post, I do not agree with the "doctors wouldn't let Mclaren" lie parts. They do not have any sort of right to tell McLaren what they should tell. Actually the hospital was forbidden to make any kind of statement and they do not have any legal obligation to report their findings to McLaren or to the FIA but they do have a legal obligation towards their patient to keep his medical records private. Obviously, we can deduct from Ron Dennis' interview that they were informed about what is going on, and they also had their own people there at the hospital. But no, Alonso's "doctors" are not going to announce publicly that "McLaren lies" or "Alonso has a condition": They would be sued within their life.

 

OMG, this again. I explained it days ago, in several posts. I talked about the difference between no keeping medical records private and letting lies about medical records, lies that could affect their patient life and other people lives. Let's not forget that speculations in this thread are about a serious desease, speculations say that McLaren and Alonso know about that and it is something so serious that could force Alonso to retire from F1, that could affect his ordinary life, that could make him faint whenever or wherever, when he is overtaking another driver, for example. No, they are not going to announce anything publicly. Please, read those posts. 

 

I don´t even try to talk again about the hypothetical scenario where an electric shock could have killed their patient, but they do not have any sort of right to tell McLaren that they shouldn´t lie about that.

Edited by extremeday, 07 March 2015 - 13:46.

[showtime]

 

1. Show everybody that he is ok
2. Cut all the speculation  (it’s not a good PR)
3. Show support for his team
4. Do PR work
5. Learn more about the car in racing conditions
6. Learn more about opposition
7. Spend time with his mechanics and engineers

 

They pay him millions. If he’s not fit to drive but otherwise great he should at least do PR work. It’s more important than his sleep routine.

 

 

No, it's not. The better PR for him and for the team is to race the best he can in Malaysia and he will do better if he is 100% fit. There will be people spreading BS until the moment he finishes a race and beats his team mate no matter how much he talks or explains.  He's going to learn about his car and others from the data and debriefs anyway. As for the relationship with his team and mechanics, I'm pretty sure he will win or lose their confidence and support on a daily basis and indoors, there's no need for empty gestures and shows for the press and people like you. And don't worry, he will catch up with all the PR work, no doubt about it.

[Nicktendo86]

• Show everybody that he is ok
• Cut all the speculation (it’s not a good PR)
• Show support for his team
• Do PR work
• Learn more about the car in racing conditions
• Learn more about opposition
• Spend time with his mechanics and engineers

They pay him millions. If he’s not fit to drive but otherwise great he should at least do PR work. It’s more important than his sleep routine.

No, it isn't. What complete and utter nonsense, he needs to be fit enough to drive a formula 1 car and aims to be fit enough for one of the toughest races on the grid, he needs to be in peak condition and the team have said they want him at the MTC in the simulator to get him up to speed with developments. The worst PR for McLaren would be to have a driver who is not 100% in that car.

The utter drivel on here is insane.

[ANF]

Anyway. Alonso was going through T3 at a speed of 215 km/h. Then he braked heavily. Why? How? Where?

[showtime]

And by García Abad... I don't think it would be fair to forget the role he has played in this mess...

 

I've always thought he's not up to the task of managing a F1 driver but Alonso has always been very grateful to the people that have been loyal and supportive from the beginning of his career. 

[four1]

And by García Abad... I don't think it would be fair to forget the role he has played in this mess...

Let's not forget Flavio, who btw hasn't been heard from after his eager tweets proclaiming that all was okay within the first 24 hours of Alonso's accident.

[OSX]

"Wurz is adamant that the incident did not result from the driver receiving an electric shock and that safety aspects worked as intended by the rules."

Seems like a very firm comment!

http://autoweek.com/...do-alonso-crash

So the GPDA wants to find out whether Alonso on race return might jeopardize the safety of other drivers. Makes sense.

 

[ViMaMo]

So the GPDA wants to find out whether Alonso on race return might jeopardize the safety of other drivers. Makes sense.

 

So FIA is going to allow any injured-recovered driver onto normal business just like that? Why should Alonso's return be any different? Just because theories are floating around? 

[Gyno]

If he doesn't race in Malaysia and the race after then there might be some thing wrong.

Also Mclaren is so far behind it's not even worth risking more damage by going to Melbourne.

[ExFlagMan]

• 
  
• Show everybody that he is ok
• Cut all the speculation  (it’s not a good PR)
• Show support for his team
• Do PR work
• Learn more about the car in racing conditions
• Learn more about opposition
• Spend time with his mechanics and engineers

They pay him millions. If he’s not fit to drive but otherwise great he should at least do PR work. It’s more important than his sleep routine.

I'll throw this one in and then duck for cover.

If Alonso spends the Melbourne GP at the McLaren HQ he will have an opportunity that no other driver moving from one team to another gets, and probably very few other drivers on the grid will have had unless they started of as a test driver for the team - the chance to see first hand how the race strategy guys back at McLaren work during an actual GP. Seems to me that someone of Alonso's intelligence would recognise that fact and take full advantage of it.
Probably much more useful than spending the weekend answering the same question from the world press, and doing boring PR work for the team.
He might even learn more about the car in racing conditions than sitting on the pit-wall or getting in the mechanics way in the garage, and would probably learn just as much if not more about the opposition as well.

[ViMaMo]

If he doesn't race in Malaysia and the race after then there might be some thing wrong.

 

When that happenzzzzzz...... time to speculate. 

[MinT]

Cant seem to link for some reason -  but there is a piece from David Coulthard on the BBC sport website where he suggests "something does not add up"......

[JHSingo]

Cant seem to link for some reason -  but there is a piece from David Coulthard on the BBC sport website where he suggests "something does not add up"......

 

http://www.bbc.co.uk...rmula1/31759693

 

Guessing the video will only be accessible to people in the UK, but the article covers the gist of what is said.

[krumpli12]

OMG, this again. I explained it days ago, in several posts. I talked about the difference between no keeping medical records private and letting lies about medical records, lies that could affect their patient life and other people lives. Let's not forget that speculations in this thread are about a serious desease, speculations say that McLaren and Alonso know about that and it is something so serious that could force Alonso to retire from F1, that could affect his ordinary life, that could make him faint whenever or wherever, when he is overtaking another driver, for example. No, they are not going to announce anything publicly. Please, read those posts.

I don´t even try to talk again about the hypothetical scenario where an electric shock could have killed their patient, but they do not have any sort of right to tell McLaren that they shouldn´t lie about that.

I read those posts, and I disagreed with them, just didn't want to comment on them. I work on this field in real life, so I can assure you, the doctors only responsibility lies with their patient: they have to tell him every aspect of his injury/illness and they can give him recommendation. And that's it. They cannot even give information to the employer not without their patient's consent. No responsibility will lie with them, not their place and right to decide whether a car is safe or whether a driver is fit to race. It is the FIA's job to decide that. I strongly suspect that even the FIA can only ask for the medical record if Alonso agrees to it. Otherwise the hospital will not give the records to the FIA.

[ExFlagMan]

From an article on the BBC Sport web Site by Andrew Benson.
 

This writer has seen the GPS and lap-time data of both the lap on which the Spaniard crashed and the lap before. The computer telemetry from the car, which contains all the data, including braking and steering inputs, has not been released by McLaren.

The GPS and lap time data shows both the line Alonso was on, and the speed he was doing at the time. It reveals the following:

Alonso's previous lap was the fastest he had done that day. On the subsequent lap, the lap of the crash, he brakes deeper into Turn One, and is wider out of it.

That dictates a different line through the kink of Turn Two, from where he takes a wider entry - a potentially faster line - into Turn Three, the racing line of which sees the drivers run right out at the edge of the track throughout the second part of the corner.

Alonso enters Turn Three noticeably faster than on the previous lap. It is hard to be absolutely sure of the difference, but it is in the region of 5-7km/h. In other words, a significant amount.

He maintains his wider line throughout - so will have had more of the car on the kerb than on the previous lap. He loses control at a speed of about 215km/h (134mph), give or take a km/h or so.

This is about the speed a driver would be expected to be travelling at this point. Some sources say it is a bit slow, but we know it was faster than the previous lap, which was his fastest so far, and we also know he was slightly off line.

McLaren say Alonso lost control because his outside rear wheel was on the Astroturf on the outside of the corner, and also that strong gusting winds - about which the driver had been complaining all morning - may well have played a part.

The car then decelerates heavily throughout the period before Alonso hits the wall.

Engineers who have seen the GPS data say the deceleration trace is almost identical to that for braking into Turn Four, a hairpin.

Alonso did not run at a specific lower speed for any significant amount of time. There is a small blip in the data where the deceleration levels out, but this is for only between 0.2-0.3 secs.

It is impossible to be sure from the GPS data at what speed the car was travelling when it hit the wall.

Seems pretty much what I was posting early on, so I guess it will be classed as 'complete bullocks' my many posters on here.

Edited by ExFlagMan, 07 March 2015 - 15:05.