4007 replies to this topic

[Mark123]

Marklar, on 22 May 2016 - 14:49, said:

There wont be any hard battle between Mercedes, Ferrari and Red Bull, maybe between Ferrari and Red Bull. But Mercedes will be out of reach.

Ferrari is pretty safe for 3rd here. McLaren & Toro Rosso can just be a danger if Ferrari is having similar issues like in Barcelona.

I agree, mercedes are out of reach. Red bull will be good out of portier and all of sector 3. The only good place to overtake is in the tunnel or T1. I think Ferrari may struggle in portier and the last right hander causing problems to overtake if needed.

[Lone]

SamH123, on 22 May 2016 - 14:31, said:

http://www.autosport...onaco--boullier
 
Boullier seems to imply Ferrari will be fighting to minor points in Monaco  

Even if it's true, that their chassis is better, I believe our drivers will beat their drivers .

[Seanspeed]

Lone, on 22 May 2016 - 16:25, said:

Even if it's true, that their chassis is better, I believe our drivers will beat their drivers .

Their chassis is not better. lol

I've never seen a more blatant example of short term memory among F1 fans, and that's saying something.

Especially after Ferrari was clearly half a second+ faster than Red Bull on a track that was supposed to be Red Bull's best.

Edited by Seanspeed, 22 May 2016 - 17:35.

[Marklar]

It's more likely that McLaren's drivers are better than Ferraris, than that McLaren's chassis is better than Ferraris...

And to add to that: Monaco isn't even neccessary just a chassis track

[ferkan]

Marklar, on 22 May 2016 - 17:37, said:

It's more likely that McLaren's drivers are better than Ferraris, than that McLaren's chassis is better than Ferraris...

And to add to that: Monaco isn't even neccessary just a chassis track

Neither is as good as qualifier as Seb in grove. Seb is very good in Monaco.

[ollebompa]

I find it amusing how the needle swings, We had a bad one for freakish circumstances in Spain on Saturday but as shown in the race we are at least .5/lap ahead of RB, possibly 1s/lap. And lets not talk about McLaren, the gap is atleast 1.5s/lap and we'll see it in Monaco

[Seanspeed]

Marklar, on 22 May 2016 - 17:37, said:

It's more likely that McLaren's drivers are better than Ferraris, than that McLaren's chassis is better than Ferraris...

And to add to that: Monaco isn't even neccessary just a chassis track

Drivers are better?

Alonso may be a tad better than Vettel at his best, but there ain't much in it. Nothing between Button and Kimi though.

None of this is going to overcome a noticeable car deficit without some serious magic.

[Marklar]

ferkan, on 22 May 2016 - 17:49, said:

Neither is as good as qualifier as Seb in grove. Seb is very good in Monaco.

Vettel is of these 4 drivers clearly the best qualifyer, but this year he seems to struggle (so far). And Monaco isn't among his best tracks for me (or not his luckiest)

Seanspeed, on 22 May 2016 - 17:57, said:

Drivers are better?

Alonso may be a tad better than Vettel at his best, but there ain't much in it. Nothing between Button and Kimi though.

None of this is going to overcome a noticeable car deficit without some serious magic.

I was refering to the claim above that the McLaren chassis could be better, but the drivers aren't. If anything it is for me more the other way around.

Edited by Marklar, 22 May 2016 - 18:04.

[kimister]

Marklar, on 22 May 2016 - 17:37, said:

It's more likely that McLaren's drivers are better than Ferraris, than that McLaren's chassis is better than Ferraris...

And to add to that: Monaco isn't even neccessary just a chassis track

 

Let's not get into that debate here...

[cokata]

McLaren. The most overrated chassis in the hybrid era. I almost wish that they switch to Merc PU (since if Honda match the Merc PU the Macca fans will deny that and say that they are running with super duper low drag set up to compensate for the horrible engine) so that their mediocre chassis gets exposed.

Edited by cokata, 22 May 2016 - 20:52.

[chhatra]

The McLaren is a good chassis, the Williams/FI/Renault are mediocre.

The Merc & Red Bulls are excellent.

I thin the Fezza is somewhere between excellent and good.

Once again people need to calm down.

IMO in terms of Chassis I would rank

Mercedes
Red Bull
Ferrari
McLaren/TR
Williams
FI
Renault
Sauber
Manor

[MortenF1]

YoungGun, on 19 May 2016 - 22:26, said:

Hit the play button .... really demonstrated how much Kimi lost in the last corner due to traction.

Seriously, there was no play button there! Otherwise I wouldn't have written what I did 😐

[Treads]

Seanspeed, on 22 May 2016 - 17:57, said:

Drivers are better
...
Nothing between Button and Kimi though.

Well. Kimi was **** on the last two seasons. Button wasn't.

Edited by Treads, 22 May 2016 - 19:39.

[artista]

Back on topic, please 

[Cerberus]

chhatra, on 22 May 2016 - 19:11, said:

The McLaren is a good chassis, the Williams/FI/Renault are mediocre.

The Merc & Red Bulls are excellent.

I thin the Fezza is somewhere between excellent and good.

Once again people need to calm down.

IMO in terms of Chassis I would rank

Mercedes
Red Bull
Ferrari
McLaren/TR
Williams
FI
Renault
Sauber
Manor

Ferrari and Redbull are close. Ferrari is better in high speed corners while Redbull is better in slow speed.

[Enzoluis]

The better traction of RB before the last turn in Spain not necessary were due to the chasis/suspension. As DR couldn´t get ahead of Vettel no matter of better traction and DRS I think it is possible that also a different gears selection for the gearbox made that difference in traction.

[ConsiderAndGo]

Can someone explain why every man and his dog think they're going to beat Ferrari this weekend? Have a missed something? Or are all these comments generally based on one Q session from Barcelona?

 

Mclaren's comments are utterly staggering. 

Edited by ConsiderAndGo, 23 May 2016 - 10:05.

[YoungGun]

ConsiderAndGo, on 23 May 2016 - 10:04, said:

Can someone explain why every man and his dog think they're going to beat Ferrari this weekend? Have a missed something? Or are all these comments generally based on one Q session from Barcelona?

 

Mclaren's comments are utterly staggering. 

 

No, McLaren's comments are well founded, from GP2 class a short year ago to being on par with Red Bull. 

[Seanspeed]

ConsiderAndGo, on 23 May 2016 - 10:04, said:

Or are all these comments generally based on one Q session from Barcelona? 

That and the fact that Ferrari struggled out of the low speed corners, though we haven't had that problem at any other track.  

 

Monaco is going to be an entirely different setup, though.  I feel there's going to be some disappointed Mclaren and Red Bull fans this weekend.  

[YoungGun]

Seanspeed, on 23 May 2016 - 10:50, said:

That and the fact that Ferrari struggled out of the low speed corners, though we haven't had that problem at any other track.  

 

Monaco is going to be an entirely different setup, though.  I feel there's going to be some disappointed Mclaren and Red Bull fans this weekend.  

 

I beg to differ, Max will make all the difference. The hype that follows him is well deserved. Reminds me of Schumacher in odd way.

Edited by YoungGun, 23 May 2016 - 10:57.

[Seanspeed]

YoungGun, on 23 May 2016 - 10:57, said:

I beg to differ, Max will make all the difference. The hype that follows him is well deserved. Reminds me of Schumacher is in odd way.

Max is good and a driver can make a difference in Monaco but we also have a fairly handy fella at the wheel. 

Edited by Seanspeed, 23 May 2016 - 10:58.

[limit]

Two of them.... people just cant realize that Kimi can beat seb this year on every track

[cokata]

Bahrain and Australia were full of traction zones and low speed corners and those were our best displays so far, so i'm optimistic we are going to at least have the edge on RB

[chhatra]

ConsiderAndGo, on 23 May 2016 - 10:04, said:

Can someone explain why every man and his dog think they're going to beat Ferrari this weekend? Have a missed something? Or are all these comments generally based on one Q session from Barcelona?

Mclaren's comments are utterly staggering.

Bit of an exaggeration, only EB has said that.

He probably has his reasons whatever they may be.

[ConsiderAndGo]

chhatra, on 23 May 2016 - 14:41, said:

Bit of an exaggeration, only EB has said that.

He probably has his reasons whatever they may be.

 

Horner has also said RB will beat them. Appreciate one of the cars has an updated engine, but that aside, I see no evidence to suggest this.

[AmateurExpert]

YoungGun, on 23 May 2016 - 10:08, said:

No, McLaren's comments are well founded, from GP2 class a short year ago to being on par with Red Bull. 

That's comparing apples and oranges - comparing the engine's lack of power least year, to this year's chassis ranking.

[LiftAndCoast]

ConsiderAndGo, on 23 May 2016 - 14:55, said:

Horner has also said RB will beat them. Appreciate one of the cars has an updated engine, but that aside, I see no evidence to suggest this.

A number of sources [incl AMUS & BBC] have claimed that according to GPS data, Red Bull is the fastest car in low speed corners. Monaco is full of those.

Add that to the upgraded PU for one of the cars, and why wouldn't Red Bull expect to be quicker than Ferrari. Hell, I genuinely think that Ricciardo (who will surely get the upgrade) is a shot at pole.

[ferkan]

LiftAndCoast, on 23 May 2016 - 18:49, said:

A number of sources [incl AMUS & BBC] have claimed that according to GPS data, Red Bull is the fastest car in low speed corners. Monaco is full of those.

Add that to the upgraded PU for one of the cars, and why wouldn't Red Bull expect to be quicker than Ferrari. Hell, I genuinely think that Ricciardo (who will surely get the upgrade) is a shot at pole.

So how was Ric and Verstappen both 2 and 4+ tenths down in S3?

[MortenF1]

I wonder if the Ferrari might not be as nimble as you'd like around Monaco? In a dry, "normal" qualifying I can't see them beating the Mercedes and Ricciardo, which puts them fourth. They might actually be able to over cut here though, like in the old days, and could jump a car that way.

[Flamini]

Red Bull was only 2 tenths slower than Ferrari in Monaco in Q3 last year. This is nothing. They improved the car in the second part of the season, they improved the engine in the winter, they improved chassis once again this year and one car will have new engine in Monaco. Overall they have made bigger gains than Ferrari since last race in Monaco. Based on last year gap and RB gains, there is no indication that Ferrari will be ahead of Red Bull here. I don't believe they won't recover those 2 tenths from last year.

[RECKLESS]

Since everyone and their dog thinks they're gonna beat Ferrari this weekend, I'm expecting a Ferrari win. Kimi preferrably. Now that would be something for the Scuderia, and F1 in general!

Edited by RECKLESS, 23 May 2016 - 20:22.

[ferkan]

At least there is one thing going for us and that is clutch. Hopefully we qualify 2nd row and then jump infront of Merc and just cruise to the finish line.

[LiftAndCoast]

ferkan, on 23 May 2016 - 19:09, said:

So how was Ric and Verstappen both 2 and 4+ tenths down in S3?

Hmm I seem to remember RIC was a third of a second quicker in quali through S3 than both Ferraris. VES being quicker through the chicane and on to the final corner than RAI for the last half of the race, which is why the Finn couldn't overtake on the main straight - too far behind. I seem to remember RIC on VET's tail through S3 until he had his puncture.

We must have watched different races?

[ferkan]

LiftAndCoast, on 23 May 2016 - 21:40, said:

Hmm I seem to remember RIC was a third of a second quicker in quali through S3 than both Ferraris. VES being quicker through the chicane and on to the final corner than RAI for the last half of the race, which is why the Finn couldn't overtake on the main straight - too far behind. I seem to remember RIC on VET's tail through S3 until he had his puncture.

We must have watched different races?

You said that AMUS said GPS data (where did they get it from?) showed RB was fastest car in slow corners. It was 2 tenths down with Ric, and more then 4 tenths down with Verstappen from Merc S3 time. That is a big difference for supposedly equally good chassis in slow part of circuit so I don't know where their data came from. All I seen was Merc destroying everyone in slow part of the track like they have been doing for few years now.

 

Now, I do think RB made fantastic chassis and aero yet again, but Merc surely got it beaten. Maybe not when driving behind cars with all these little winglets and funky shapes on car (new FW and bargeboards), but in quali they are monstrous. I expect nothing else but Merc beating RB around Monaco, they did that in RBs hayday so its nothing new.

[LiftAndCoast]

ferkan, on 23 May 2016 - 22:26, said:

You said that AMUS said GPS data (where did they get it from?) showed RB was fastest car in slow corners. It was 2 tenths down with Ric, and more then 4 tenths down with Verstappen from Merc S3 time. That is a big difference for supposedly equally good chassis in slow part of circuit so I don't know where their data came from. All I seen was Merc destroying everyone in slow part of the track like they have been doing for few years now.

Now, I do think RB made fantastic chassis and aero yet again, but Merc surely got it beaten. Maybe not when driving behind cars with all these little winglets and funky shapes on car (new FW and bargeboards), but in quali they are monstrous. I expect nothing else but Merc beating RB around Monaco, they did that in RBs hayday so its nothing new.

We might be talking at cross purposes. I was talking about RB beating Ferrari, and you seem to be talking about Merc beating RB...

Anyways, I optimistically predict RIC on the front row at Monaco. The Prancing Horses can fight over the leftovers 😉

[lbennie]

RB were only 2 tenths off Ferrari at Monaco last year and that was when they were struggling with their car getting beaten by STR at other tracks.

I can't see Ferrari getting close this time. The RB chassis is in a different league now compared to back then and PU is in a much better place.

Edited by lbennie, 23 May 2016 - 23:43.

[ferkan]

Sebastian Vettel says Ferrari's aggressive strategy of full attack will not always work out for the ambitious Maranello team.

The German insists he is driving a better car than in 2015, even though a year ago he had already won the first of his three races for the season.

"We have become better, it's just the results don't show it yet," Vettel told Germany's Sport Bild.

"There is still a gap to Mercedes, that's true, but it has become much smaller. You can't just move mountains overnight," he said.

Barcelona was obviously a setback for Ferrari, with the red team not even able to capitalise on Mercedes' double-DNF, as Red Bull's Max Verstappen won.

Ferrari has been working on the cause of its sudden qualifying pace problem at the Barcelona test this week.

After a long pause before answering, Vettel said: "We are giving everything -- sometimes maybe even a little too much. But we have to try everything."

Asked, then, if errors are forgivable as Ferrari pushes to catch and beat Mercedes, Vettel admitted: "No. The technical problems we have had were not in the plan.

"But catching up is always a balancing act. Perhaps some improvements have come a bit too early, but if we think something is an advantage in speed, we want to bring it to the track as quickly as possible."

 

http://www.grandprix...ns/ns33914.html

 

Hopefully Mclaren virus hasn't been transmitted to Maranello 

[Music Lover]

ConsiderAndGo, on 23 May 2016 - 10:04, said:

Can someone explain why every man and his dog think they're going to beat Ferrari this weekend? Have a missed something? Or are all these comments generally based on one Q session from Barcelona?

 

Mclaren's comments are utterly staggering. 

Can it be that Pirelli from this race monitor the tyre-pressures in real time?

[ferkan]

James Allison says in Ferrari race preview, that Spain test after gp troubles went successuful.

[AlexS]

The only thing i am afraid in Monaco is our starts which have not been very good lately.

[ferkan]

AlexS, on 24 May 2016 - 14:40, said:

The only thing i am afraid in Monaco is our starts which have not been very good lately.

You mean Kimi starts? Seb started great in Sochi and Barcelona.

[Seanspeed]

lbennie, on 23 May 2016 - 23:40, said:

I can't see Ferrari getting close this time. The RB chassis is in a different league now compared to back then

Another stupefying myth born very recently.  

 

I have no idea why people think this when you look at the season as a whole.   

[ConsiderAndGo]

Seanspeed, on 24 May 2016 - 14:54, said:

Another stupefying myth born very recently.  

 

I have no idea why people think this when you look at the season as a whole.   

 I too just don't get it. 

[ferkan]

I still think RB has advantage aero/chassis wise, but by no means its a big gap. If we look at overall look of RBs and Ferraris until this year, RBs always looked very aggressive in their design. Nose, FW, sidepods, very tight rear end etc. while Ferrari always played it safe and conservative. Just by looking at two cars this year I cannot really see major difference on the outside, for first time in long long time. Actually, they look to me very similar in their design. Probably most similar two cars on the grid (RB copied Ferrari last year solution of radiator placement for example).

 

 

Only difference I would mention is Merc and RB having more "aero friendly" front suspension wishbones, but we don't know the reason for Ferraris setup since we don't know internal mechanics of it. As well as a bit more area for air to pass in nosecone section.

Edited by ferkan, 24 May 2016 - 15:54.

[Marklar]

I believe that Ferrari wont have any problems to beat McLaren (unless they have serious issues), but they wont be able to challenge Mercedes either.

The question is just if they will firmly be 3rd behind Mercedes & RB or if they will fight for 2nd. I'm stil very unsure about Red Bull: I wouldnt be surprised if they could challenge Mercedes, but I wouldnt be surprised either if Ferrari would have the clear edge over them. I stil think that the Red Bull chassis (as the McLaren) is a tad overrated

[ferkan]

Marklar, on 24 May 2016 - 16:01, said:

I believe that Ferrari wont have any problems to beat McLaren (unless they have serious issues), but they wont be able to challenge Mercedes either.

The question is just if they will firmly be 3rd behind Mercedes & RB or if they will fight for 2nd. I'm stil very unsure about Red Bull: I wouldnt be surprised if they could challenge Mercedes, but I wouldnt be surprised either if Ferrari would have the clear edge over them. I stil think that the Red Bull chassis (as the McLaren) is a tad overrated

I think RB might be tad faster then Ferrari, but I won't be surprised when I see both of them half a second or more from Merc. I cannot wait to see Horner opinion about that fact. People are acting surprised about Merc speed through slow sections, when they have been dominant there for 4 years already.

[cokata]

It would be interesting, but i think especially with the fact that US and SS will be used this weekend Ferrari will do very well. No they won't challenge Merc, but i think (hope) for them to have a clear edge on RB.

[AlexS]

ferkan, on 24 May 2016 - 14:53, said:

You mean Kimi starts? Seb started great in Sochi and Barcelona.

 

? Kimi passed Bottas in Sochi from standing start. In the running start he was bad. Vetel lost to Sainz in Spain like Kimi.

 

Edit: but he was better in Spain since he passed Kimi

Edited by AlexS, 24 May 2016 - 19:31.

[Slowersofterdumber]

Marklar, on 22 May 2016 - 17:37, said:

It's more likely that McLaren's drivers are better than Ferraris, than that McLaren's chassis is better than Ferraris...

And to add to that: Monaco isn't even neccessary just a chassis track

Vettel is the reference in the grid with Lewis these days, and Kimi in good shape is better than Jenson.

Ferrari has a better lineup providing Raikkonen stays in form.

[ferkan]

AlexS, on 24 May 2016 - 19:22, said:

? Kimi passed Bottas in Sochi from standing start. In the running start he was bad. Vetel lost to Sainz in Spain like Kimi

Sainz overtook Vettel after he had massive understeer after Max overtook him. Our start jumps are great, and I dont remember them being problematic.