10 replies to this topic

[TerryS]

The attached article covers a unique event in Australian motoring history.

Highly recommended:

https://primotipo.co...victor-harbour/

It was the South Australian Centenary Grand Prix on Boxing Day December 1936. Over time this has morphed to become the Australian Grand Prix of 1937 in the history books.
Never mind that a different name and in a different year.

It was the first road race for cars in South Australia.

The "track" was existing roads between the sea side towns of Port Elliott and Victor Harbour. It was 12.55 km long and very fast being mostly straight roads. It was only used for racing on this occasion.

There had been an AGP at Philip Island in 1935, and there was one at Bathurst in 1938, but for some reason no one took up the rights for 1936 nor 1937.

An interesting point in the article is reference to the first Australian Grand Prix being at Goulburn (country NSW) in 1927. This contradicts popular views that the first AGP was in 1928.

It was advertised as the Australian Grand Prix and held at Goulburn Speedway being the local showground, and attracted 3,000 spectators.

Refer this ad in top right hand part of page:
http://trove.nla.gov...its=exactPhrase|||anyWords|||notWords|||requestHandler|||dateFrom|||dateTo|||sortby|||l-state=New+South+Wales|||l-decade=192|||l-year=1927|||l-month=1

The track was grass and only wide enough for two cars at a time, so run in elimination heats.

It is interesting that the very well known Phil Garlick would have been there but he was killed at the infamous Maroubra Speedway only the preceding Saturday night.

One other famous driver was Hope Bartlett in a Bugatti.

[Ray Bell]

This subject has been discussed here at length...

The '1927 Australian Grand Prix' here:

http://forums.autosp...on-at-goulburn/

And here:

http://forums.autosp...nd-prix-is-old/

While the subject of the renaming of the 1928 and 1936 races is recounted in the first of these and in other threads.

[Terry Walker]

However, just on the 1927 event: In the 1920s the Autocycle Union ran the motorcycle Australian Grand Prix, Senior and Junior, at Goulburn speedway. In 1927 for, as far as I can tell, the only time, cars were invited to the motorcycle meeting, and in line with the name and style of the meeting, the car race was the Australian Grand Prix. But the meeting was promoted by the Autocycle Union, not any car racing sanctioning or promoting body, and held on a speedway and not as a road race. Hence not recognised as a proper motor car Australian Grand Prix when the road racing AGP started in 1928. 1928 was indeed the first proper motor car Australian GP.

[TerryS]

This subject has been discussed here at length...

The '1927 Australian Grand Prix' here:

http://forums.autosp...on-at-goulburn/

And here:

http://forums.autosp...nd-prix-is-old/

While the subject of the renaming of the 1928 and 1936 races is recounted in the first of these and in other threads.

re 1927 AUSTRALIAN GRAND PRIX

Ray as an experienced researcher I naturally looked at those two threads along with much other evidence before I did my post. I decided that in relation to 1927 those threads did not assist the argument of why 1927 is not the first AGP despite being advertised as the AGP at the time,

Ray what I did get from the two threads was unfortunately your level of antipathy towards poor Barry Lake, a journalist extraordinaire.

They did not as you state discuss the races "at length"

I note that respected John Medley and Paul Hamilton agree with the status of the 1927 event.

It is also noted the book "The History of Australia's First Grand Prix" was reprinted in 2015 to include the 1927 event.

In post #5 of the second above thread Barry Lake told you in March 2000 of the 1927 AGP.

In the first thread there are two suspicious things:
- In post #1 the word in first line is "SOMEONE'
When quoted in post# 5 this becomes "BARRY LAKE" yet post # 1 does not appear to have been edited.

- in post # 7 there is a quote of a post by "rdrcr" yet the original post is missing.
What is going on?

Geoff Meredith died in June 1928 from pneumonia whist attending the Isle of Man races. He was not racing but there to assist some Australians. Refer attached

http://trove.nla.gov...its=exactPhrase|||anyWords|||notWords|||requestHandler|||dateFrom|||dateTo|||sortby|||l-state=New+South+Wales

Ray have you actually read the papers of the time? Yes or No.

[Ray Bell]

Yes, I did, and I visited people in Goulburn who had been researching it all...

To address your charges, please note that where I posted 'someone' in relation to Barry Lake, this post is more accurately quoted by Barry a couple of posts later. There it shows his name was used. We'll come back to that.

In that post of Barry's he says:

Not wishing to pass details on to a rival freelance writer who phones looking for free information does not signify knowing "precious little". I already am very angry about this entire matter. I am surprised you choose to use The Nostalgia Forum to further inflame the situation.

So you can see that Barry had a bad attitude towards me. The truth of the matter is that I would phone him on rare occasions to discuss something, he would turn it into a session where he would be questioning me, and all the while he was typing what I told him.

Barry was upset because I wrote a story in the 'Closed Circuit' series in Motor Racing Australia about the Thurgoona-Wirlinga circuit, which he had planned to do and for which he had done some research.

At the time Barry was writing three to five articles per issue for that magazine, whereas I was doing two. What's more, the 'Closed Circuit' series had been suggested by me, devised by me and the outline of what it included each time was what I set out. Graham Howard did several articles, then he was too busy and I was asked to do it again, only one more of these articles was written by anyone else and I had to amend and correct it because Steve Normoyle wasn't confident about a lot of the details.

Remember, too, that Barry had stolen my job back in 1973. I just roll with the punches on these things, just as I largely ignore your pointless charges against me.

But sometimes I do have to respond, as I am doing now. So why, then, did I delete Barry's name from that post?

Because Barry got the moderators to force me to take his name out wherever I had used it!

So you have accused me of showing disdain for Barry because he made me delete his name...

Just for the record, when he was near the end, Barry got a message to me that I was welcome to visit him. I'm sorry that I couldn't do that.

And rdrcr would have deleted his post for some reason, possibly not wanting to be a part of any argument.

[TerryS]

For interest:

http://tentenths.com...ead.php?t=16494

See particularly post # 11

[Catalina Park]

News flash, the 1927 AGP wasn't held at the Goulburn Showground.

It was 1929 before speedway was held at the Show-grounds.

[Porsche718]

News flash, the 1927 AGP wasn't held at the Goulburn Showground.

It was 1929 before speedway was held at the Show-grounds.

 

You're quite right, Catalina, the event was held at the race-course. Plenty of space to allow errant motors have their way.

 

The car events were, in fact, invited to be part of the motorcycle meeting, not the main card.

 

One wonders if the Racing Drivers Asccociation and the Goulburn Motor Club (the organisers of the event) thought the title "Australian Grand Prix" was simply a case of "why not call it that?" rather than the realisation that they were attempting to be the first event of a long series of wonderful motorsport competitions called the Australian Grand Prix.

[john medley]

Steve, I suggest The John Mann Proposition here. An engineer with one of those engineers' minds, John once put to me the question "Why do early aeroplanes look funny to us?" When I failed to answer effectively, John said " It's because early aeroplane makers didn't know what an aeroplane was supposed to look like"

[TerryS]

Steve, I suggest The John Mann Proposition here. An engineer with one of those engineers' minds, John once put to me the question "Why do early aeroplanes look funny to us?" When I failed to answer effectively, John said " It's because early aeroplane makers didn't know what an aeroplane was supposed to look like"

It's a bit like World War 1 was not called that at the time

[TerryS]

This is the only photo I can find on line of the 1927 AGP

http://www.aroundyou...alian-grand-pri

No wonder they only allowed two cars at a time. Anyone else would have died in the dust.

Mid January would have been pretty hot there too. I love one paper report at the time saying it was so hot that some of the gentleman spectating even took their jackets off.......