2214 replies to this topic

[Tsarwash]

statman, on 09 Sept 2019 - 09:39, said:

 

Gasly: 7

 

Kvyat: 5

 

 

 

How anybody can rate Gasly above Kvyat is incomprehensible. Kvyat qualified ahead of him, and was slightly ahead when his car gave up. Ludicrous. This guy isn't even bothering to analyse properly. 

[NixxxoN]

CSF, on 09 Sept 2019 - 11:29, said:

That doesn't make Hamilton's race a 9 though, nor does it disprove my thoughts that had the Merc's been the other way around the reaction would have been different. 

 

Regardless of score its obvious that Hamilton put a far better challenge on Leclerc than Bottas. He put a lot of pressure on him and forced him into some mistakes, even making him resort to somewhat dirty moves to keep position

Bottas did.... literally nothing. He was closing in and almost immediately making a mistake and losing a second. No attack whatsoever

Edited by NixxxoN, 09 September 2019 - 11:47.

[shure]

geralt, on 09 Sept 2019 - 11:32, said:

If Hamilton had been given the better strategy and then literally made three mistakes in a row when it was time to attack Leclerc in the latter stages of the races, people would be slating him for not doing anything and being lucky to finish 2nd.

Hell, Hamilton gets points knocked out of his rating for any small lock-ups even when he wins.


A 9 is too much, though, that I agree with but I think it's hard to argue that Hamilton was worse than Bottas at monza

it's plain that the points influence the decisions and little of the car's actual capability is taken into account.

 

Bottas gets more points than Hamilton for simply cruising around, taking no risks and generally just doing his own thing.  Ricciardo gets 10s and 9s again simply for cruising around.  Neither did anything special and weren't involved in any wheel-to-wheel action with any other car.  It's hard to see what either did that was in any way special.

 

Whereas Hamilton gets fewer points when he was actually trying to make a difference and doing everything he could to affect the result.  It seems drivers get rewarded for not actually racing and get penalised when they do.  Very odd system of scoring.

[selespeed]

Hamilton was great...9 is a minimum...so was Leclerc...
Perez 8 but Ricc 10....why a difference of 2 points...Ricc overtook Hulk and cruised to finish...Perez started 18th...great start...overtook some cars....finished less than 15sec from Albon and kept Verstapen behind for 10 15 laps

[CountDooku]

JBJ, on 09 Sept 2019 - 10:16, said:

Unbelievable, and Hamilton an 8 while crashing out of the race !

 

 

statman, on 09 Sept 2019 - 10:37, said:

pro-hamilton, anti-verstappen poster says it's only happened to him when he was 17, but how about the times his hero has done it?

 

 

golden child can do no wrong!!!

 

 

 

JeePee, on 09 Sept 2019 - 10:49, said:

They were even accelerating there, weren't they? #offtopic

 

 

Wow, you guys seem triggered. What has Max crashing two times in a row got to do with Hamilton?

Funny that you also need to bring up incidents from OVER A DECADE AGO. Same year Hamilton became a world champion. 

 

I see Max getting a 7 rating as equivalent to one of those primary school sports days where everyone gets a prize. Even the kid who couldn't jump over the first 30cm hurdle. Not running into people int he first corner two races in a row is the least you can expect from an F1 driver.

[Retrofly]

Lol, this thread is gold, easily the best thread on AS

 

Anyway, my top 3 would be Leclerc 9, Bot 8, Ham 8. Seems the most fair.

[Laster]

DeKnyff, on 09 Sept 2019 - 10:18, said:

Actually, ratings don't seem so wrong.

I made no statement about their ratings. I said they weren’t journalists.

[statman]

F1i:

 

Leclerc: 9.5

Ricciardo: 9

Perez: 8.5

Hulkenberg: 8.5

Sainz: 8.5

Hamilton: 8.5

Bottas: 8.5

Verstappen: 8

Kvyat: 8

Albon: 7.5

Norris: 7.5

Giovinazzi: 7.5

Magnussen: 7.5

Russell: 7

Gasly: 7

Stroll: 6.5

Grosjean: 6

Raikkonen: 6

Kubica: 5

Vettel: 5

 

F1i being very gracious on Vettel..

[JeePee]

CountDooku, on 09 Sept 2019 - 11:52, said:

I see Max getting a 7 rating as equivalent to one of those primary school sports days where everyone gets a prize. Even the kid who couldn't jump over the first 30cm hurdle. Not running into people int he first corner two races in a row is the least you can expect from an F1 driver.

Max made one silly mistake, but that was it actually. He had great pace all weekend. After his nose change in lap 2 he was 39 seconds behind Lewis, and at the finish line he was... 39 seconds behind Lewis, despite overtaking half the field twice.

 

The reason he was at the back of the traffic jam wasn't his own doing either.

[CountDooku]

JeePee, on 09 Sept 2019 - 12:26, said:

Max made one silly mistake, but that was it actually. He had great pace all weekend. After his nose change in lap 2 he was 39 seconds behind Lewis, and at the finish line he was... 39 seconds behind Lewis, despite overtaking half the field twice.

 

The reason he was at the back of the traffic jam wasn't his own doing either.

 

By that Logic Seb also deserves a 7 because he had great pace and had only "one silly mistake". Amirite?

I noticed a lot of backmarkers didn't run into the back of their competitors either. Despite them starting at the back of the field.

[Requiem84]

CountDooku, on 09 Sept 2019 - 11:52, said:

Wow, you guys seem triggered. What has Max crashing two times in a row got to do with Hamilton?
Funny that you also need to bring up incidents from OVER A DECADE AGO. Same year Hamilton became a world champion.

I see Max getting a 7 rating as equivalent to one of those primary school sports days where everyone gets a prize. Even the kid who couldn't jump over the first 30cm hurdle. Not running into people int he first corner two races in a row is the least you can expect from an F1 driver.

Did you already edit your commebts about Max crashing out twice in a row?

Or should we just not take you seriously anymore because you have a tendency to twist the facts? :-).

[Marklar]

CountDooku, on 09 Sept 2019 - 12:28, said:

By that Logic Seb also deserves a 7 because he had great pace and had only "one silly mistake". Amirite?
I noticed a lot of backmarkers didn't run into the back of their competitors either. Despite them starting at the back of the field.

Well, Vettel did two actually. And one was absolutely unforgivable.

I can live with the 7 for Max tbh. It was a mistake, but not exactly a tremendous one. Also a 7 is bad rating for a top driver anyways.

[JeePee]

CountDooku, on 09 Sept 2019 - 12:28, said:

I noticed a lot of backmarkers didn't run into the back of their competitors either. Despite them starting at the back of the field.

Was the rest of the backmarkers 0,5 seconds per lap quicker than their teammates tho?

 

I don't think Seb made a 'silly' mistake either. Yeah, the spin maybe. But what he did after...

Edited by JeePee, 09 September 2019 - 12:40.

[JRodrigues]

Marklar, on 09 Sept 2019 - 11:10, said:

Autosport

Ricciardo - 10

Leclerc, Hamilton, Giovanazzi, Kvyat - 9

Perez, Bottas, Hulkenberg, Stroll, Russel- 8

Magnussen, Norris, Sainz , Gasly, Albon, Verstappen - 7

Kubica - 6

Grosjean - 5

Raikkonen, Vettel - 4

(taken from Reddit)

 

Just putting Raikkonen at the same level as Vettel...   

 

And the one that gave him a 3 is even worse! I don't want what they're smoking.

[mclara]

JeePee, on 09 Sept 2019 - 12:39, said:

Was the rest of the backmarkers 0,5 seconds per lap quicker than their teammates tho?

 

I don't think Seb made a 'silly' mistake either. Yeah, the spin maybe. But what he did after...

So as long as you are 0,5 sec faster per lap (or whatever suits your agenda) faster than your rookie teammate then you can do whatever you want on the track?

[Garndell]

Mercedes also screwed Lewis and to a lesser extent Bottas by not giving Lewis max power while only giving it to Bottas for the last lap or 2.  Who knew that Toto would sabotage his own drivers races...

[CountDooku]

Requiem84, on 09 Sept 2019 - 12:29, said:

Did you already edit your commebts about Max crashing out twice in a row?

Or should we just not take you seriously anymore because you have a tendency to twist the facts? :-).

 

Max crashed in Spa. Fact.

Max crashed in Monza. Fact.

Spa and Monza occur consecutively. Fact.

 

[Thatfastguy]

CountDooku, on 09 Sept 2019 - 13:09, said:

Max crashed in Spa. Fact.
Max crashed in Monza. Fact.
Spa and Monza occur consecutively. Fact.

Lol, he crashed? Really..?

[Requiem84]

CountDooku, on 09 Sept 2019 - 13:09, said:

Max crashed in Spa. Fact.
Max crashed in Monza. Fact.
Spa and Monza occur consecutively. Fact.

You said crashed out, didn’t you?

Maybe it’s because I’m not a native speaker, but to me crashing out sounds like crashing and retiring because of your crash.

Secondly, do you really call that nudge with Perez ‘a crash’?

[JeePee]

mclara, on 09 Sept 2019 - 13:01, said:

So as long as you are 0,5 sec faster per lap (or whatever suits your agenda) faster than your rookie teammate then you can do whatever you want on the track?

Nope, cause you get deducted 3 points if you make a little mistake 

[CountDooku]

Thatfastguy, on 09 Sept 2019 - 13:14, said:

Lol, he crashed? Really..?

 

Yes, it was a car crash. Literally the definition.

 

Requiem84, on 09 Sept 2019 - 13:14, said:

You said crashed out, didn’t you?

Maybe it’s because I’m not a native speaker, but to me crashing out sounds like crashing and retiring because of your crash.

Secondly, do you really call that nudge with Perez ‘a crash’?

 

Yes you are right, I shouldn't have included 'out' in the statement as that suggests his race was ended by the crash in Monza.

It doesn't take away from my point though that Max has ruined his chances two races in a row by crashing his car and certainly doesn't deserve a 7 for Monza.

[statman]

It's pretty clear now CountDooku is just trolling, can we please stop responding to him and get back ontopic.

 

thanks

[shure]

Garndell, on 09 Sept 2019 - 13:05, said:

Mercedes also screwed Lewis and to a lesser extent Bottas by not giving Lewis max power while only giving it to Bottas for the last lap or 2.  Who knew that Toto would sabotage his own drivers races...

It should be obvious that granting extra power isn't that straightforward.  I can't imagine why they would not have used it if they weren't worried about any consequences.  

[CountDooku]

statman, on 09 Sept 2019 - 13:31, said:

It's pretty clear now CountDooku is just trolling, can we please stop responding to him and get back ontopic.

 

thanks

 

Yes everyone who disagrees with you is now a troll? 

 

And if talking about a driver's over-generous ratings (which I have stuck to religiously) is off topic what in god's name is this thread for?

[Retrofly]

I think you need to look up definition of a troll, he's literally responding to questions honestly which is the opposite of trolling, is he a bit irate? Perhaps

[timmy bolt]

Max lost 30s because of the first chicane. Potentially 2 - 4 positions. Questioning a 7 is not completely bonkers.

That said, from my pov max wasn't gung ho barrelling into the corners. He just made a silly mistake. I would have him at a 6 prob. I can understand others thinking he deserved less.

[Marklar]

Sky
Leclerc 9.5
Bottas 8
Hamilton 8
Ricciardo 9
Hulk 8
Albon 7
Perez 8
Verstappen 7.5
Giovinazzi 7.5
Norris 7
Gasly 6
Stroll 7
Vettel 5
Russell 8
Kimi 5
Grosjean 6
Kubica 6.5
Magnussen 7
Kvyat 8
Sainz 7.5

ETA of the table thingy in an hour or so. Not near a computer rn.

[jAnO76]

.... 62 minutes now
Need my fix.... please...

[Marklar]

[coppilcus]

RIcciardo’s smile account for one or two points in every news outlet...

[Tsarwash]

timmy bolt, on 09 Sept 2019 - 18:33, said:

Max lost 30s because of the first chicane. Potentially 2 - 4 positions. Questioning a 7 is not completely bonkers.

That said, from my pov max wasn't gung ho barrelling into the corners. He just made a silly mistake. I would have him at a 6 prob. I can understand others thinking he deserved less.

I still don't understand Max getting a higher score than Albon. He was blisteringly fast at point, but did make a small unforced error at the start that had big consequences for the race. And it wasn't as though he was able to get past the Racing Point once he caught it up, the same as Albon wasn't able to easily get past some other midfield teams. It as a small error with big consequences so I cannot see how some people score him higher than Albon. 

[Requiem84]

Tsarwash, on 09 Sept 2019 - 20:59, said:

I still don't understand Max getting a higher score than Albon. He was blisteringly fast at point, but did make a small unforced error at the start that had big consequences for the race. And it wasn't as though he was able to get past the Racing Point once he caught it up, the same as Albon wasn't able to easily get past some other midfield teams. It as a small error with big consequences so I cannot see how some people score him higher than Albon.

I guess because:
- Albon was significantly slower than Max in free air
- he took too much risk on the outside with Sainz and lost a few positions
- he cut the chicane and got a 5s penalty.

3 reasons, 3 times -1 point = 7.

Max has a silly and big mistake at the start: -3 = 7.

Does it make more sense now?

[kernel]

Marklar, on 09 Sept 2019 - 20:25, said:

 

Crazy that despite two scrappy races from Verstappen, he is still 1st @ Autosport and Sky.

[statman]

Vettel at 13, ouch

[Marklar]

Well, Sky is because they didnt rate him in Spa (though neither they did all of Spielberg to be fair)

At Autosport he is equal to Hamilton, which is probably now a accurate reflection.

[Henri Greuter]

Marklar, on 10 Sept 2019 - 07:20, said:

Well, Sky is because they didnt rate him in Spa (though neither they did all of Spielberg to be fair)

At Autosport he is equal to Hamilton, which is probably now a accurate reflection.

Just out of curiosity:
How do you deal with a no rating of a driver in one of the scoring events? Taking the average of the remaining scores or the minimum maybe?

[SonGoku]

kernel, on 10 Sept 2019 - 07:16, said:

Crazy that despite two scrappy races from Verstappen, he is still 1st @ Autosport and Sky.

Hamilton is not the popular choice and doesn't fit the "new generation is here, get the older drivers out" narrative.

[Kao18]

SonGoku, on 10 Sept 2019 - 07:34, said:

Hamilton is not the popular choice and doesn't fit the "new generation is here, get the older drivers out" narrative.

Yeah poor Hamilton being just first in AS and Amus ratings and only second in Sky. Just shows what happens if you are no longer the popular choice doesnt it ;)

[Marklar]

Henri Greuter, on 10 Sept 2019 - 07:25, said:

Just out of curiosity:
How do you deal with a no rating of a driver in one of the scoring events? Taking the average of the remaining scores or the minimum maybe?

average of the others yeah

[mclara]

JeePee, on 09 Sept 2019 - 13:15, said:

Nope, cause you get deducted 3 points if you make a little mistake 

That means that Verstappens race should be rated as a 10 without the mistake which is way too high just because he is faster than his rookie teammate.

Some people are putting way too much emphasis on the fact that Verstappen beats his teammates which we have no idea of knowing how good they actually are.

[sgtkate]

kernel, on 10 Sept 2019 - 07:16, said:

Crazy that despite two scrappy races from Verstappen, he is still 1st @ Autosport and Sky.

Well not really seeing as everyone in the top few have also had scrappy races...

[JeePee]

kernel, on 10 Sept 2019 - 07:16, said:

Crazy that despite two scrappy races from Verstappen, he is still 1st @ Autosport and Sky.

Hamilton also had two scrappy races. That's why it's close.

[Marklar]

Yeah its more or less Hamilton in Hockenheim equals Max in Spa and Hamilton in Spielberg equals Max in Monza.

Rest looks similar imo.

[TheFish]

Vettel getting a higher mark than Silverstone seems crazy to me.

 

That crash into Stroll was incredibly dangerous, especially after what happened in Spa.

[JBJ]

JeePee, on 10 Sept 2019 - 08:08, said:

Hamilton also had two scrappy races. That's why it's close.

Stop it, the intention was to point out 2 scrappy races from Verstappen, not those from Hamilton

[kernel]

Marklar, on 10 Sept 2019 - 08:15, said:

Yeah its more or less Hamilton in Hockenheim equals Max in Spa and Hamilton in Spielberg equals Max in Monza.

Rest looks similar imo.

 

Hamilton at Hockenheim >>>> Verstappen at Spa, and it's not even close.

 

VER was early 2018 level of clumsy and caused an avoidable collision and then crashed out within 3 corners, and still got rewarded with 5/10, when HAM averaged 5.5/10 at Hockenheim for getting pole, leading half the race comfortably and crashing on his own in the wet in treacherous conditions (3-4 other drivers crashed at the same spot). That's why I am stunned that VER is still hanging on to the lead at 2 of 3 outlets. They have been very lenient on his mistakes whilst they have punished HAM's generally harshly in comparison.
 

Edited by kernel, 10 September 2019 - 09:18.

[Ivanhoe]

kernel, on 10 Sept 2019 - 09:16, said:

VER was early 2018 level of clumsy and caused an avoidable collision

Spa was a racing incident, not causing an avoidable collision. Hamilton was lucky that spin didn’t end his race like it did to Hülkenberg and Leclerc.

Edited by Ivanhoe, 10 September 2019 - 09:24.

[TomNokoe]

Shocked to see Verstappen slipping so soon, but that is the power of averages I suppose.

[JBJ]

kernel, on 10 Sept 2019 - 09:16, said:

Hamilton at Hockenheim >>>> Verstappen at Spa, and it's not even close.

 

VER was early 2018 level of clumsy and caused an avoidable collision and then crashed out within 3 corners, and still got rewarded with 5/10, when HAM averaged 5.5/10 at Hockenheim for getting pole, leading half the race comfortably and crashing on his own in the wet in treacherous conditions (3-4 other drivers crashed at the same spot). That's why I am stunned that VER is still hanging on to the lead at 2 of 3 outlets. They have been very lenient on his mistakes whilst they have punished HAM's generally harshly in comparison.
 

So because you don't agree with the ratings in 2018 he shouldn't be to close in 2019?

[kernel]

Ivanhoe, on 10 Sept 2019 - 09:19, said:

Spa was a racing incident, not causing an avoidable collision.

 

It was definitely avoidable. VER didn't need to be so aggressive at Turn 1.