33 replies to this topic

[Barry Boor]

Seeking confirmation of a long-held belief I consulted the Motor Sport archives and looked at the February 1953 issue.
Initially, I couldn't find the race report I was looking for at all. Then I found it - item 9 in a list of 9 sets of event results, which included such major happenings as "Leinster M.C. Boxing Day Trial" "Caernarvonshire (sp) & Anglesey M.C. Night Run" and "Cheltenham M.C. Winter Trial".
There at the bottom of the list was.... "Ferrari Benefit:The result of the Beunos Aires G.P. of January 18th."
It proceeded to give the first 4 positions and the fact that Farina crashed. And that's it.
I must confess that this amazed me. For a start, this wasn't the Buenos Aires Grand Prix, it was the Argentine Grand Prix but what I found most surprising was that that was all the magazine had to say about it. Clearly, Formula 1 was not high on the priority list in those far off days.

[Risil]

Perhaps they couldn't afford to send a correspondent halfway across the world? In which case they'd be relying on a wire service without any of the usual detailed reporting and colour. Their race reports in the fifties from the Australian and New Zealand non-championship races, or the Indy 500 (when they covered it at all), were similarly sparse.

 

That said they did get somebody (M.L.T., from memory) out to do a full report of the championship-deciding US Grand Prix in 1959.

[Eric Dunsdon]

I remember having to wait a  couple of weeks to see  reports of the Argentine races back then.

[Vitesse2]

Perhaps they couldn't afford to send a correspondent halfway across the world? In which case they'd be relying on a wire service without any of the usual detailed reporting and colour. Their race reports in the fifties from the Australian and New Zealand non-championship races, or the Indy 500 (when they covered it at all), were similarly sparse.

 

That said they did get somebody (M.L.T., from memory) out to do a full report of the championship-deciding US Grand Prix in 1959.

The Times didn't actually deign to report this race, but I suspect this - from the Daily Telegraph of January 19th - is from exactly the same source as Motor Sport used:

 

 

7 KILLED IN MOTOR RACE CRASH

 

From Our Own Correspondent

 

BUENOS AIRES. Sunday. Seven people were killed during the Argentine Grand Prix in Buenos Aires this afternoon, when a Ferrari driven by Giuseppe Farina ran into the crowd. Farina was uninjured.

 

The race was won by Alberto Ascari, Italy, driving a Ferrari. Second was another Italian, Luigi Villoresi (Ferrari), third Froilan Gonzalez, Argentine (Maserati), and fourth Michael Hawthorne, [sic] Britain (Ferrari).

Wesley Tee was of course famously parsimonious ...

[john winfield]

Slightly OT, M.L.T. was Mike Twite wasn't he? The Mike Twite who went on to be editor of Motoring News and who, as DCN mentioned elsewhere, sadly died in an air crash some time ago.

 

When Wesley Tee, or Bill Boddy, sent Michael Tee out to report, as well as photograph, what byline/initials did Tee junior use?

[Tim Murray]

Autosport had nearly a whole page on the GP the week after the race, which they followed up a fortnight later with a more detailed two and a half page report. This does rather contrast with the thirteen pages, spread over two weeks, they devoted to the Monte. (This was just the actual event report and doesn’t include their event preview or retrospective article a week later.)

[Risil]

Wesley Tee was of course famously parsimonious ...

"Second was another Italian" !

[68targa]

Remember that this was a Formula 2 race albeit a World Championship round and maybe MS did not consider it to be too important in some far flung place so relied upon a Reuters or similar wire report. 

[Michael Ferner]

The most surprising thing is how Motor Sport is still considered a magazine worth having, or at least worth discussing (see TNF thread running to umpteen pages). Rose-tinted rear view mirrors? I have the full run on compact discs, and even forgetting the dismal quality of the electronic copies, it's because of the content I rarely use it. Let's face it, Motor Sport never was a good magazine, very eclectic in its choice of events to cover, and very poor quality reports most of the time. Probably better than having no specialist motor racing at all, but even some newspapers contained better reports than that.

[ChrisJson]

Clearly, Formula 1 was not high on the priority list in those far off days.

Neither was F2 apparently.

 

Christer.

 

Edit: 68targa you beat me to it!

Edited by ChrisJson, 13 July 2020 - 13:44.

[Doug Nye]

Mike Tee was M.J.T. - from memory.  Mike Twite M.L.T.

 

DCN

[D-Type]

Was this the race where Hawthorn's car is sometimes reported as being painted green?

Edited by D-Type, 15 July 2020 - 09:01.

[Risil]

To clear up any confusion, the 1959 US GP report in Motor Sport had M.J.T. in the byline. (It's in the January 1960 issue.)

[Barry Boor]

Ah, Duncan, you've hit on the very piece of information that I was seeking, although I can't imagine where I got it from originally.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Michael Ferner
The most surprising thing is how Motor Sport is still considered a magazine worth having... very poor quality reports most of the time.....

You never read the Denis Jenkinson race reports?

[Eric Dunsdon]

The Autocar  magazine had good coverage of the 1953 Argentine races which included a shot of Clemar Bucci's Alfa which set a school boys heart racing.

[Bloggsworth]

You never read the Denis Jenkinson race reports?

Seconded - It was reading DSJ report of Brooks winning the Pescara GP in a Connaught in a pile of old Motor Sports found in a cupboard at school, in 1957, which turned me into an aficionado...

[Tim Murray]

Ah, Duncan, you've hit on the very piece of information that I was seeking, although I can't imagine where I got it from originally.

Here’s an earlier thread:

Hawthorn’s green Ferrari

It didn’t completely clear up the confusion about whether Hawthorn’s Ferrari in Argentina was green, or red with a green noseband, or ...

The Autosport report, by Dr Vicente Alvarez, twice mentions Hawthorn’s green Ferrari, noting that Farina used the green car to set his grid time as his own car was having an engine change. The b & w photo of Hawthorn’s car shows that it was a uniform single colour front to back.

[john winfield]

Mike Tee was M.J.T. - from memory.  Mike Twite M.L.T.

 

DCN

 

Thanks!

[Roger Clark]

People who are surprised at the lack of an Argentine report have probably not thought about what a small operation Motor Sport was at that time. Denis Jenkinson only joined full-time in March 1953; before that he would send a report if a car race happened to be convenient for a motor-cycle event. A non-scientific examination of the magazine in 1953 suggests that WB wrote almost all of it, apart from Kent Karslake’s Sideslips series and Cars I Have Owned. There was a short article about Sebring, signed by WB, but it was all about Aston-Martins. He clearly didn’t go. I don’t know when MS first sent a correspondent to an American race (North or South) but I wouldn’t be surprised if it was 1959. 
.  

Edited by Roger Clark, 13 July 2020 - 17:22.

[LittleChris]

Seconded - It was reading DSJ report of Brooks winning the Pescara GP in a Connaught in a pile of old Motor Sports found in a cupboard at school, in 1957, which turned me into an aficionado...

 

 

Not sure Tony would remember winning in Pescara 

[arttidesco]

The most surprising thing is how Motor Sport is still considered a magazine worth having, or at least worth discussing (see TNF thread running to umpteen pages). Rose-tinted rear view mirrors? I have the full run on compact discs, and even forgetting the dismal quality of the electronic copies, it's because of the content I rarely use it. Let's face it, Motor Sport never was a good magazine, very eclectic in its choice of events to cover, and very poor quality reports most of the time. Probably better than having no specialist motor racing at all, but even some newspapers contained better reports than that.

 

I suspect it is a bit of a nostalgia thing, for myself, and I doubt I am completely alone on this, MotorSport was a welcome relief from the interminable boredom and petty squabling that is life in a boarding school. The magazine was a stepping stone from comics, think Asterix and worse in Germany, into the world that purported to be adulthood. The eclectic nature of the magazine covering everything from Veteran to the latest cutting edge technology, was part of the appeal. Any single copy could be read adfinitum without ever getting bored and many were. I confess it was very difficult disposing of my 35 year collection when I last moved, it was like throwing away some essential part of my DNA, I suspect it was also part of some extremely belated growing up process ;-)

Edited by arttidesco, 14 July 2020 - 04:36.

[arttidesco]

"Second was another Italian" !

 

Shirley that is jingoistic, not sending a correspondent, even one paid in Luncheon Vouchers, would be parsimonious ? ;-)

[ensign14]

This thread is one reason why I've never chimed in with the criticism of Autosport.  Because, for whatever its faults, it does cover so much.  There are full multi-page reports on Indycar, for instance.  Whereas if you look at a British magazine in the seventies, the only race usually mentioned in the series was Indianapolis, but a five-lap clubbie at Castle Combe would get the beans.  Motor Sport's recent excellent article about the last days of the Champcars on dirt may have been the first reports it has ever carried on them...

 

And that's also not a criticism of the past either.  It's the nature of the beast and the changing of the times.  I'm guessing that the average buyer would have been more interested in the five-lap clubbie at Castle Combe; he may have been driving in it.  Whereas now you can be an armchair follower of most formulae.

[MCS]

I might be dreaming, but didn't Autosport have a South American (Argentinian?) correspondent for many years?  A Dr Somebody or Other rings a bell.  I may be mistaken!

[Tim Murray]

Dr Vicente Alvarez, who wrote the 1953 Argentine GP report mentioned above. He presumably attended the race, so I’d be inclined to take his word for it that Hawthorn’s Ferrari was green.

Vicente Alvarez was unfortunately severely injured at Indianapolis in 1971 when the pace car driver lost control of his Dodge in the pit lane and crashed into a photographers’ stand. He never fully recovered.

https://alblixtracin...er-vicente.html

[68targa]

I have been and still am a fan of Motor Sport.  Everyone has their own opinion of course, especially in this modern age when news is instant.  I do not think it is fair to compare MS with Autosport. The latter has always been dedicated to racing of all kinds pretty much from day one when Gregor Grant was in control. I believe they encouraged drivers or others who they knew were to be at races to file a report of some sort. They also had overseas contributors - Pete Lyons in the 70's springs to mind reporting on Can-Am. In pre-internet days I read both of these mags without too much overlap. Autosport being weekly of course so had more immediate racing news.

Motor Sport on the other has always tried to cover a much wider spectrum, not just racing, including road car tests, vintage and veteran (mainly WB articles) and of course their shining star in DSJ. As mentioned by Roger Clar in post # 20 it was a small operation. The current contributors in MS make for informative and varied reading.

[blueprint2002]

I have been and still am a fan of Motor Sport.  Everyone has their own opinion of course.......

 

Absolutely. To my mind, DSJ's race reports were second to none, and fortunately for me he served them up for 40 years or so. His analyses of design trends, and race-by-race reports of technical developments in the cars, were good too, though I've seen better, if less regularly, in Autocar.

Depends on your point of view, I suppose, but I found WB tedious, particularly his endless supply of "conundrums".

And I suppose, too, that there were plenty of readers who looked forward to those reports of rather parochial club events.

[Sterzo]

Part of the intense and undying appeal of Motor Sport in the fifties, sixties and seventies, was the quirkily opinionated writing of WB and DSJ. A current historian presumably seeks comprehensive information and a sense of perspective. Well, Motor Sport would give you perspective all right, but it would be the stubbornly singular perspective of those two men. If WB decided a pub once visited by Parry Thomas was worth more space than some American Indianapolis race, that's what you got. Loved it, still do, and I shall go before my 1953 bound volume does - even if it lacks an Argentine Grand Prix report.

[Barry Boor]

I hope the comment by Tim is correct.....

 

[Eric Dunsdon]

The Ferrari that Hawthorn drove in the Formula Libre support race at the 1953 British Grand Prix meeting was painted green.

[68targa]

This is a photo from the 1953 Argentine GP (according to the Getty website) with Hawthorn in the #16 Ferrari - it appears that the engine cover may be a different colour to the rest of the bodywork   - could the car have had a green bonnet only ?

 

[Tim Murray]

The photo comes from this blog article.

As in the photo in the Autosport report, the Ferrari appears to be a uniform colour front to back.

[arttidesco]

As in the photo in the Autosport report, the Ferrari appears to be a uniform colour front to back.

 

 

Hmmm well depends how much one blows the photo in Autosport up or crops the pic .....