1339 replies to this topic

[maximilian]

If FE didn't already have this "oh, we are FULL, sorry" attitude and kept providing opportunities for new teams to join the series, these new teams wouldn't be forced to look at xE, instead.  

 

36 entries?  No problem.  Hold 2 heat races, and the top-whatever go through into the feature race.  We need more racing action, anyways!  Only 45 minutes is an outrage. 

 

They were hauling around twice the number of cars when they were still swapping, so not even that is a problem in terms of logistics - plus extra pit stalls can also be easily added, since they use temporary facilities anyways.  Opportunities missed.

Edited by maximilian, 01 October 2020 - 12:43.

[thegamer23]

I kind of agree with BRG there, Extreme E is still non-existent. 
The serie won't be even broadcasted Live, it won't feel like a racing championship at all but more like a Documentary/Netflix mini serie.

 

Totally a different thing.

 

And, Max, it's not that easy...

FE is already doing a superb job already by offering a 24 cars grid with such big manufacturers & names.

And the level is much higher than in the first few seasons: it's not like a team can now debut without having solid Tech & Engineering foundations. (i'm talking to you, Trulli Team!  )

 

Even Mercedes or Porsche struggled to be competitive right away, and we're talking about two HUGE manufacturers.

 

But i agree about the fact that 2 races/event should be the norm. 

 

Edited by thegamer23, 01 October 2020 - 13:39.

[Vielleicht]

BRG, on 01 Oct 2020 - 11:52, said:

Right.....a championship with many successful seasons under its belt is rattled by a fantasy series that has yet to even turn a wheel and if it ever happens will be held in the back of beyond not in the forefront of city centres? 

It's an odd article from Sam Smith (who's FE reporting I would generally rate quite highly). He's set Formula E and Extreme E up here as opponents in a zero-sum game competing for an audience in a sort of claickbaity, sensationalist piece when there wasn't much else to talk about. That may or may not be an editorial decision of The Race but... it's just not very well thought out.

 

What's totally missed out is that, sharing both the founders and parent company, Formula E and Extreme E are already trying to work together on generating interest. Formula E media accounts push Extreme E news and visa versa, many of FE's drivers are on the XE driver's programme even though there's a snowball's chance in hell they were ever actually going to race in it. It's fair to say Extreme E's traction to date is largely becuase Agag and co pulled off Formula E to make it a success and that's allowed them to build a skilled and well-backed team of people to make XE happen.

 

 If Extreme E does manage to establish itself (a concessionary mention to the fact that it remains, in practice, a totally unproven concept to date) they'll be totally different disciplines in totally different locations and should be able to co-exist and support each other. And let's just say for argument's sake that Extreme E does become a mega hit with interest that outpaces Formula E... in what world would Extreme E not point all of it's fans and followers in the direction of Formula E?

 

In short... no, I don't get it either...

[Vielleicht]

thegamer23, on 01 Oct 2020 - 13:34, said:

I kind of agree with BRG there, Extreme E is still non-existent. 
The serie won't be even broadcasted Live, it won't feel like a racing championship at all but more like a Documentary/Netflix mini serie.

 

Totally a different thing.

I'm not 100% sure this will be the case anymore. I think the plan now is to broadcast the events live in the usual way via general/sports tv channels and an accompanying docuseries will cover more of the behind the scenes type stuff via a streaming service. I keep meaning to clarify this somehow...

 

But anyway, there's a big old thread in itself for all of this Extreme E stuff!

[Vielleicht]

Formula E Commits To Valencia Pre-Season Test

https://the-race.com...st-at-valencia/

 

28th November - 2nd December with a media day on the 30th November.

 

Plan is to prepare everything as if the first round will be held in Santiago and see how the global situation develops.

Edited by Vielleicht, 02 October 2020 - 08:00.

[thegamer23]

With Honda leaving F1 after 2021, can we dream of a Honda Formula E team?

 

[Muppetmad]

It's the direction they seem to be hinting at, isn't it? I was surprised they didn't jump at it from the outset, to be honest.

[Ben1445]

Dragon-Honda anyone? 

 

I think it's a fairly serious possibility to be honest. I'd be surprised if it's not been discussed given that they've specifically said that they're investing in battery and hydrogen fuel cell tech. 

 

That or the planned hydrogen fuel cell category at Le Mans for 2024. Or perhaps both. Or perhaps neither. 

 

Who knows!? 

[thegamer23]

 

"Focus is on Electric Motors & Carbon neutral solutions development"     

 

Not saying directly FE, but one can hope!!

 

Edited by thegamer23, 02 October 2020 - 09:57.

[BRG]

thegamer23, on 02 Oct 2020 - 08:19, said:

With Honda leaving F1 after 2021, can we dream of a Honda Formula E team?

More of a nightmare really, unless you think some manufacturer with a reputation of being a serial quitter is a good thing.  If Honda come to FE, they will screw around for a couple of years then bugger off.  It's their chosen MO.

 

FE's growing  - now total - dependence on manufacturers will see it up the same excremental creek as f1, and like F1, sans paddle.

[Ben1445]

See that's where the mandatory capped cost powertrain supply is supposed to kick in. If a manufacturer quits, the team it leaves behind can go to the best powertrain builders on the grid and have a right to buy it cheaply and remain competitive. 

 

Unless there's a sudden mass manufacturer exodus from FE (which isn't actually impossible) I think that rule should see them fairly well protected. It is, at very least, their paddle in the proverbial creek. 

 

It has to be said though that what isn't necessarily being protected in FE is independent racing EV powertrain builders. But there's not really a long, established history of them being around like there is in combustion engine racing. The ones that do exist (the likes of WAE, STARD, QEV, Kreisel) are busy scooping up lucrative contracts to supply spec kits to eWRX, ETCR, Extreme E and all that jazz... 

Edited by Ben1445, 02 October 2020 - 10:47.

[thegamer23]

NIO going through major technical restructuring, big hopes for Season 7!

https://the-race.com...io333-for-2021/

[juicy sushi]

NIO seems like exactly the kind of team Cyan/Polestar/Geely should scoop up.

[Vielleicht]

Nissan To Start Formula E Seaon With Old Powertrain

https://the-race.com...old-powertrain/

 

Nissan will use the second of three homologation slots in April to introdce their new powertrain.

[Vielleicht]

New Formula E Support Series Plans Gain Momentum
https://the-race.com...-gain-momentum/
 

Quote

Formula E is investigating how best it can introduce a new support series to its race weekends and is looking at options for the 2022/23 season.

The Race believes that early stage discussions have taken place to scope out if the current Gen2 cars or a new bespoke single-seater could be used in a junior-level series to support the Formula E world championship in 2023.

These talks are understood to be at a nascent stage but do include at least two manufacturers, one of which is believed to be already competing in Formula E.

So, with the I-Pace eTrophy winding up, what should FE seek to do next?

Edited by Vielleicht, 07 October 2020 - 18:29.

[maximilian]

Vielleicht, on 07 Oct 2020 - 18:28, said:

New Formula E Support Series Plans Gain Momentum
https://the-race.com...-gain-momentum/
 

So, with the I-Pace eTrophy winding up, what should FE seek to do next?

 

 

Like I hinted above, they should expand the main field, do 2 heat races, and advance the top runners into a feature race.  Makes a whole lot more sense than another contrived nonsense series nobody will give a crap about.  That Jaguar i-Farce was just embarrassing, and don't even get me started on Robofarce.

[Ben1445]

Would be a cool second life for the Gen2 chassis, but who knows really. Having a junior ‘E2’ series there is one thing but it would be a huge leap from existing to becoming an established and respected career path.

I’m just thinking about how the ETCR regulations are supposed to be rolled out for use in regional championships, there’s that F4 level ERA championship on the horizon and (if you want something that is established already) that Smart EQ Cup in Italy is still quietly popular for entrants as cheap, production based electric touring car racing. It would surely make sense, both financially and environmentally, to have these regional series on the support billing..,

[BRG]

FE needs to have more on its race schedule than just one race to make it a proper day out.   A parade of lurching Jaguar SUVs wasn't really much of a bonus for the paying spectators (if we ever have such creatures again in the future!) so they need something better. 

 

I would have thought the old cars, perhaps with simplified bodywork to make them look a real step below the main series, might fill the bill, perhaps with a saloon car race - there are enough small production EVs now to  make up a colourful gird of differing cars.  FE can't go on being a one trick pony.

[maximilian]

BRG, on 08 Oct 2020 - 10:27, said:

FE can't go on being a one trick pony.

 

Especially not if the races keep being capped at 45 minutes, and a large part of that is being run under FCY.  The time limit HAS to go.  And it really IS ridiculous to block off the city for 3 weeks building the circuit, hauling all that stuff there, etc. ... and then running for ... less than an hour.  WTF FE?

 

Make each venue a double-header, add more REAL entries to the field, as well as 2  invited "guest entries" in a FE-run team.  Have FP1, FP2, Qualy, 2 heat races and a feature race.  Then do it again the next day.  Jolly good show.

[juicy sushi]

I think they really need to offer more racing during the day.  You could either run two 30 minute practice sessions, one 30 minute qualifying, and then two 45 minute races during the day (and then again on Sunday for 4 races per weekend), or as max suggests, expand the grid, and do heat races before a main.  Either way, more racing needs to happen.

[Ben1445]

FE introduces shorter qualifying, cost-saving measures for 2020-21| https://www.autospor...saving-measures
 
Soooo those first couple of minutes at the beginning of each group stage of qualifying where no one does anything? Well, that'll be gone as the sessions will be shortened from 6 minutes to 4. 
 
Plus a few other things like software update limits, personnel limits and tyre allocation cut by 25%...

[maximilian]

Oh good, even LESS scheduled on-track action.  WTF?

[thegamer23]

Good: I would have done that seasons ago, honestly!

The first 2-3 minutes of each group consist of watching cars in the Pits, as they wait the very end to do the pushlap.

Good decision to scrap two minutes off it.

 

[Ben1445]

Very much the easiest solution to just lop the two minutes, it was just dead time of no action which drew many a complaint. 

 

I suppose they could have mandated two runs so they did a banker and a fast run like they used to... but they've also cut tire allocations by 25% and the teams don't want to do that even when they had the option so... 

[efuloni]

Ben1445, on 08 Oct 2020 - 06:52, said:

Would be a cool second life for the Gen2 chassis, but who knows really. Having a junior ‘E2’ series there is one thing but it would be a huge leap from existing to becoming an established and respected career path.

I’m just thinking about how the ETCR regulations are supposed to be rolled out for use in regional championships, there’s that F4 level ERA championship on the horizon and (if you want something that is established already) that Smart EQ Cup in Italy is still quietly popular for entrants as cheap, production based electric touring car racing. It would surely make sense, both financially and environmentally, to have these regional series on the support billing..,

I think it could be a nice route for drivers without the budgedt to compete in F2 or the ones who fail to impress in F2/F3.

Also, it would be a huge step forward if the teams put their reserve drivers to compete in this "E2", raising the competition bar a lot.

[thegamer23]

Indeed, the "FE 2" is a dream scenario.

More track action, more drivers, a lot more things to look forward to in the weekend.

Obviously, it would bring costs and maybe logistic problems in the city centers (if we'll ever come back to street racing  ) 

 

The Paddock would need to be quite bigger, generators ecc. 

Not super easy to do. 
 

[Ben1445]

I'm pretty certain someone is going to make electric racing work as a part of the junior ladder, it's just a matter of who and when... 

[Rodaknee]

Ben1445, on 09 Oct 2020 - 19:25, said:

FE introduces shorter qualifying, cost-saving measures for 2020-21| https://www.autospor...saving-measures
 
Soooo those first couple of minutes at the beginning of each group stage of qualifying where no one does anything? Well, that'll be gone as the sessions will be shortened from 6 minutes to 4. 
 
Plus a few other things like software update limits, personnel limits and tyre allocation cut by 25%...

To me, this points towards Formula E becoming a failure.  If FE were a growing sport, we'd not be seeing cut backs for money saving reasons.  The FIA etc can throw all the environmental claptrap around, but all the time the races are littered with safety cars, red flags and boringly identical tracks, the competition is going nowhere.

[MattK9]

maximilian, on 09 Oct 2020 - 19:52, said:

Oh good, even LESS scheduled on-track action. WTF?

No the number of laps each car does in qualifying remains the same just they have less time to do it in

[Ben1445]

Rodaknee, on 10 Oct 2020 - 06:56, said:

To me, this points towards Formula E becoming a failure. If FE were a growing sport, we'd not be seeing cut backs for money saving reasons. The FIA etc can throw all the environmental claptrap around, but all the time the races are littered with safety cars, red flags and boringly identical tracks, the competition is going nowhere.

So I suppose all the other series out there (including Formula One) introducing cost saving measures because of the pandemic are also pointing towards failure?

Formula E is a growing sport, I don’t think that’s really a contestable point. Audiences and revenue has been steadily climbing over the last few years. The impact of the pandemic is something of a separate (but by no means trivial) issue.

[thegamer23]

Formula E back in Canada in 2022?

https://www.racefans...canada-in-2022/

Edited by thegamer23, 15 October 2020 - 07:16.

[thegamer23]

First test for Sam Bird with Jaguar!   

 

 

[Ben1445]

Interesting times for Bird and Jaguar... this is definitely one of the big intrigues of the season 

[messy]

Rodaknee, on 10 Oct 2020 - 06:56, said:

To me, this points towards Formula E becoming a failure.  If FE were a growing sport, we'd not be seeing cut backs for money saving reasons.  The FIA etc can throw all the environmental claptrap around, but all the time the races are littered with safety cars, red flags and boringly identical tracks, the competition is going nowhere.

 

It is, though. 

[Anja]

Norman Nato confirmed at Venturi... I think?

 

https://twitter.com/...133200813035527

[juicy sushi]

Who?

[Risil]

Ben1445, on 02 Oct 2020 - 10:47, said:

It has to be said though that what isn't necessarily being protected in FE is independent racing EV powertrain builders. But there's not really a long, established history of them being around like there is in combustion engine racing. The ones that do exist (the likes of WAE, STARD, QEV, Kreisel) are busy scooping up lucrative contracts to supply spec kits to eWRX, ETCR, Extreme E and all that jazz... 

 

Sounds exactly like fossil fuel racing to be honest.

[Risil]

juicy sushi, on 16 Oct 2020 - 16:08, said:

Who?

 

You may know him by his full name, Norman North Atlantic Treaty Organization.

[Ben1445]

Nato's been their test driver for at least a couple of seasons I think, as well as racing in LMP the last few years. 

 

Not a terrible racing record and he's established within Venturi. To be honest this makes more sense than keeping Massa on for another year, so I'll be interested to see how he does. At very least gives us an idea of where Formula E's waiting-in-the-wings driver market is sitting in quality.

 

I actually slightly prefer the idea of rewarding drivers who've been putting the work in with sim/development time with a race seat over, say, an F1 driver who's just lost their seat.  

[FLB]

Ben1445, on 16 Oct 2020 - 16:15, said:

Nato's been their test driver for at least a couple of seasons I think, as well as racing in LMP the last few years. 

 

Not a terrible racing record and he's established within Venturi. To be honest this makes more sense than keeping Massa on for another year, so I'll be interested to see how he does. At very least gives us an idea of where Formula E's waiting-in-the-wings driver market is sitting in quality.

 

I actually slightly prefer the idea of rewarding drivers who've been putting the work in with sim/development time with a race seat over, say, an F1 driver who's just lost their seat.  

Former Rebellion driver in the FIA WEC. One of those rumoured to go to Peugeot (*along with 39 others). 

 

Possibly to position himself better in case one of the DS Techeetah drives opens.

[thegamer23]

Decent driver, not stellar but should form a solid pair with Mortara.

Most boring lineup ever tho 😅

[maximilian]

Nato?  A bit underwhelming choice, especially after all that Twitter hype.  Well, he did have some good results.  Will be interesting to see if he transitions back to single seaters better than... let's say... Neel Jani 

Edited by maximilian, 16 October 2020 - 16:52.

[Ben1445]

The Race on the case for choosing Nato 
 
Why Venturi picked a low-profile option to replace Massa | https://the-race.com...-replace-massa/

 

Never know, he might be another Rowland - drafted in to replace a higher profile driver with relatively low expectations yet manages to impress. 

 

We shall see... 

Edited by Ben1445, 16 October 2020 - 16:51.

[Anja]

thegamer23, on 16 Oct 2020 - 16:42, said:

Most boring lineup ever tho

 

Rather fitting for such a boring team 

 

But the announcement got me thinking about Venturi in general and how weird of a company it is. All their "production" for the last 20 years was a handful of concept cars and some publicity stunts (involving electric powertrains) that nobody cared or even heard about. Then came the Formula E team but now they don't even make their own powertrains anymore. I really don't get how (and why) it even keeps existing through all these years. 

Edited by Anja, 16 October 2020 - 17:00.

[juicy sushi]

Anja, on 16 Oct 2020 - 16:54, said:

Rather fitting for such a boring team 

 

But the announcement got me thinking about Venturi in general and how weird of a company it is. All their "production" for the last 20 years was a handful of concept cars and some publicity stunts (involving electric powertrains) that nobody cared or even heard about. Then came the Formula E team but now they don't even make their own powertrains anymore. I really don't get how (and why) it even keeps existing through all these years. 

I guess that tax implications of a loss-making "R&D" company may be beneficial under the French tax code...

[maximilian]

Anja, on 16 Oct 2020 - 16:54, said:

Rather fitting for such a boring team 

 

But the announcement got me thinking about Venturi in general and how weird of a company it is. All their "production" for the last 20 years was a handful of concept cars and some publicity stunts (involving electric powertrains) that nobody cared or even heard about. Then came the Formula E team but now they don't even make their own powertrains anymore. I really don't get how (and why) it even keeps existing through all these years. 

 

Probably holding on to the slot as an investment, since FE has already gotten elitist and basically is about to follow F1 into the franchise system - just like Haas, just by hanging on, they'll probably get good return on investment once it is announced that new FE entrants will have to pay X amount of money to the existing ones.  Then they'll take the money and GTFO.

[Muppetmad]

Is it bad that I can only remember Nato as the instigator of this mess? 

[messy]

I renember Nato driving a red and yellow car in GP2 and occasionally winning. That’s about it. Not an inspiring choice but we’ll see.

[Risil]

Muppetmad, on 16 Oct 2020 - 19:19, said:

Is it bad that I can only remember Nato as the instigator of this mess? 

That was great!

[Anja]

messy, on 16 Oct 2020 - 19:45, said:

I renember Nato driving a red and yellow car in GP2 and occasionally winning. That’s about it. Not an inspiring choice but we’ll see.

 

Yes, that was 2016 when he drove for Racing Engineering (which sounds like a generic fake team name in a videogame, btw). He had a quite decent season back then.