240 replies to this topic

[Ali623]

https://www.mclaren....tional-changes/

[SparkPlug86]

Wow... bye Key. 

[H0R]

Good bye and good riddance.

[Insane111]

Welp!

[onewingedangel]

You have to hope David Sanchez is just the first of many new recruits.

[SparkPlug86]

 

 

Zak Brown, CEO, McLaren Racing, said: 

“It’s important now that we ensure we have a solid foundation as the next phase of our journey. It has been clear to me for some time that our technical development has not moved at a quick enough pace to match our ambition of returning to the front of the grid. I’m pleased that, having completed a full review with Andrea, we are now able to implement the restructure required to set the wheels in motion to turn this around. These strategic changes ensure the long-term success of the team and are necessary to see McLaren get back to winning ways. We have everything coming into place now with our people and infrastructure and alongside an exciting driver line-up, I’m determined to see McLaren get back to where we should be.” 

 

 

The F1 Technical Executive Team includes Peter Prodromou, who moves into the role of Technical Director, Aerodynamics. Peter will lead the whole aero function, using his experience gained in 32 years of Formula 1 and a strong track record of winning world championships. David Sanchez returns to McLaren as Technical Director, Car Concept and Performance after a decade at Ferrari, and brings significant expertise and innovation to the team. David will join the team on 1 January 2024. Neil Houldey is promoted into the newly created role of Technical Director, Engineering and Design. Having first joined the team in 2006 Neil has grown within the organisation, becoming a highly respected technical leader.   

 

Giuseppe Pesce is promoted to Director, Aerodynamics & Chief of Staff, to support the running of the aero department reporting into Peter.   

Alongside these changes, Piers Thynne moves into the expanded role of Chief Operating Officer for the Formula 1 team. This new role will support the Team Principal in the mission of innovating and elevating the standards at McLaren, to be strongly positioned to be competing at the front of the grid. 

 

This reorganisation has been the work of a number of months and takes place ahead of several new key infrastructure projects which are due to come online in phases throughout 2023. Additionally, the team has been undertaking a sustained recruitment campaign to increase the technical capability, with some senior appointments already made. 

 

 

https://www.mclaren....xQLlly2jUtQM71o

Edited by SparkPlug86, 23 March 2023 - 13:20.

[Clatter]

Bit worried they are going for too many chiefs.

[FirstnameLastname]

James key seen chalet shopping in Switzerland

[SparkPlug86]

Bit worried they are going for too many chiefs.

 

Maybe, or more focus on the right areas. I think this is a positive change. 

[Clatter]

Maybe, or more focus on the right areas. I think this is a positive change.

I hope so, only time will tell.

[Disgrace]

Not that surprising that Key was shown the door...
 

I wonder if pressure will mount on Key. While not as bad, these issues remind me slightly of Lowe’s downfall at Williams.

 

With technical gremlins and lack of performance plaguing two consecutive pre-seasons, the writing was on the wall.

[BCM]

I think Prodromou should have been given the arse as well. He hasn't lived up to what was expected in terms of aero since he arrived back at McLaren from Redbull.

[BertoC]

Good. Key was a disapointment. He inherited Pat Fry solid base and only achieved success in 2021 due to the "free" Mercedes PU. His cars were atrocious.

[jensfan09]

Not that surprising that Key was shown the door...
 

 

With technical gremlins and lack of performance plaguing two consecutive pre-seasons, the writing was on the wall.

Yeah I think he went the wrong way with the development path, especially with the new rules.

 

The car still has the fundamental issues from before the rules but also lost it's straight line speed, which was one of the major performance differentiators with the new cars.

[Insane111]

Sanchez not joining until 2024 is not ideal. Another year of "we have to wait till next year for the real car"?

 

But it was decisive at least, hopefully things improve.

[mclarensmps]

At least what this shows me is that Zak hasn't been sitting there idle, and is fully aware that it hasn't been good enough.

Those of you who questioned Key's lack of presence at the launch were right! Well done.

This is a good change! 

[SparkPlug86]

I think Prodromou should have been given the arse as well. He hasn't lived up to what was expected in terms of aero since he arrived back at McLaren from Redbull.

 

Could be that Key was limiting him? Never had a problem under Newey... 

[jensfan09]

Sanchez not joining until 2024 is not ideal. Another year of "we have to wait till next year for the real car"?

 

But it was decisive at least, hopefully things improve.

Yeah, probably won't see any of his input till the 2nd half of 2024 or into 2025.

 

Will we see Ferrari style sidepods? lol

Edited by jensfan09, 23 March 2023 - 13:37.

[f1rules]

HA, as i said for a long time, not all is well with Key, he has been missing from fotos and lastly i pointed out if sanchez arrives, Key would leave, but many said no no, quess what, he is gone, and thank god for that. Under his leadership they where always on the backfoot, always taken with pants down, always with excuses, and not really bringing the team forward at all incl. not getting rid of inbuild car concept flaws that was there for years and years

Edited by f1rules, 23 March 2023 - 13:46.

[SparkPlug86]

At least what this shows me is that Zak hasn't been sitting there idle, and is fully aware that it hasn't been good enough.

Those of you who questioned Key's lack of presence at the launch were right! Well done.

This is a good change! 

 

Indeed. I still think Zak is on the right path and is leading McLaren well... 

[BCM]

Could be that Key was limiting him? Never had a problem under Newey... 

He came back to McLaren before Key though. Perhaps it would be better to say he did well under Newey's guidance?

 

Edit: Prodromou re-joined Mclaren in 2014, Key in 2019.

Edited by BCM, 23 March 2023 - 14:00.

[DeKnyff]

I think Prodromou should have been given the arse as well. He hasn't lived up to what was expected in terms of aero since he arrived back at McLaren from Redbull.

 

I don't understand very well Prod's career path in McLaren. He is now "Technical Director, Aerodynamics". Wasn't that his job, or even a higher position, when he was recruited in 2014? Wasn't he supposed to be the real genius behind Newey at Red Bull? Why did he fall into obscurity for years?

[KWSN - DSM]

I am not a McLaren fan, I would think though that McLaren fans should be a little worried

 

1. James Key gone immediately.
2. David Sanchez not walking in the door until January 2024.
3. Prodromou's new title seems a sideway demotion.
4. The team is to move away from having a single technical director, and will instead put in place a team of three key specialists who will report directly to team principal Andrea Stella.

 

 

Little too much happening, over a longish timeline, I would be especially concerned over 4. which have all the markings of too many chef's.

[Nobody]

The altar is burning.

[BCM]

I don't understand very well Prod's career path in McLaren. He is now "Technical Director, Aerodynamics". Wasn't that his job, or even a higher position, when he was recruited in 2014? Wasn't he supposed to be the real genius behind Newey at Red Bull? Why did he fall into obscurity for years?

It is confusing. According to Wiki he went back in 2014 as Chief Engineer. Hard to know where that sits now given the re-organisations since then. Irrespective he was involved in all the Honda powered cars where McLaren were claiming at points to have the best car on the track apart from it being powered by the Honda. Only to discover they had been producing lemons once the Renault went in initially. I'm not even convinced the good year or so they had a couple of years back were legit as that coincided with Ferrari dropping the ball completely. It was a false dawn.

 

Prodromou came with a big reputation, but there's been no demonstration of that capability in his time with McLaren.

Edited by BCM, 23 March 2023 - 13:52.

[mclarensmps]

Too many tech chiefs is a red herring. This is how modern F1 teams are set up, Red Bull has a vehicle dynamics chief and an aero chief that report to Newey as well. Believe Mercedes and Ferrari do as well. 

BTW, I am skeptical about Prodromou as well. 

Edited by mclarensmps, 23 March 2023 - 13:56.

[SparkPlug86]

He came back to McLaren before Key though. Perhaps it would be better to say he did well under Newey's guidance?

 

Edit: Prodromou re-joined Mclaren in 2014, Key in 2019.

 

I mean... yeah fair point. Honda didn't help though. Maybe he will be next... 

 

Edit - On reflection. We also need to remember that these "names" don't do everything. There are troops below them, so it could be that is the problem. You are only as good as the team around you.

Edited by SparkPlug86, 23 March 2023 - 14:05.

[jensfan09]

Too many tech chiefs is a red herring. This is how modern F1 teams are set up, Red Bull has a vehicle dynamics chief and an aero chief that report to Newey as well. Believe Mercedes and Ferrari do as well. 

BTW, I am skeptical about Prodromou as well. 

Could just be that Andrea Stella has a different way of working compared to Andreas Seidl and this is the reason or the change in structure.

 

Key has had 2 years to prove himself and he hasn't, so will have to see how Prodromou does with the current concept before Sanchez starts next year.

[MaxisOne]

Too many tech chiefs is a red herring. This is how modern F1 teams are set up, Red Bull has a vehicle dynamics chief and an aero chief that report to Newey as well. Believe Mercedes and Ferrari do as well. 

BTW, I am skeptical about Prodromou as well. 

 

Mercedes went all in with multiple tech chiefs .. didn't turn out too shabby for them. 

[Insane111]

It's hard to have much insight as to where the blame lies from the outside. Prod was previously CTO of aero, and the person currently listed on linkedin as Director of Aerodynamics is Tony Salter, who isn't mentioned anywhere here. Could've been that we already had too many chefs in the aero department, and this has clarified things. Would otherwise seem odd to reward someone responsible for the current car's biggest weakness.

[TomNokoe]

I wonder if Key will return to the familiarity, comfort and lesser expectations of Alpha Tauri?

[jwill189]

Too many tech chiefs is a red herring. This is how modern F1 teams are set up, Red Bull has a vehicle dynamics chief and an aero chief that report to Newey as well. Believe Mercedes and Ferrari do as well. 

BTW, I am skeptical about Prodromou as well. 

,

We can only hope these technical directors will work well together and Stella will not create a lot of red tape that used to exist under Ron.

[Red5ive]

Well we will see..in time (again) whether these changes work but until then it just seems like moving pieces around which wont fix the fact that McLaren need a major car brand behind them to become front of the grid material again.

[RedRabbit]

Could be that Key was limiting him? Never had a problem under Newey...

Prodromou has been at McLaren since the end of 2014 or early 2015, long before Key. This is actually the 3rd TD he has worked with.

[RedRabbit]

This feels like the 3rd re-shuffle now since getting rid of all the top management in 2018, when the switch to Renault was a flop.

It's not looking great for McLaren in the medium term at all. The earliest it seems they could pull an Aston Martin would be 2025.

[Sonic2k]

To be honest, it's better to do it now than later. 2024 will be hard anyways with the wind tunnel coming too late for next year's car.

[cbbcisace]

I wonder if Key will return to the familiarity, comfort and lesser expectations of Alpha Tauri?

Maybe Williams?

[DeKnyff]

This feels like the 3rd re-shuffle now since getting rid of all the top management in 2018, when the switch to Renault was a flop.

It's not looking great for McLaren in the medium term at all. The earliest it seems they could pull an Aston Martin would be 2025.

 

I don't know if, in the long term, the re-switch to Mercedes in 2021 was a great idea. The year 2018 was catastrophic, but 2019 and 2020 were no worse than 2021, 2022 and 2023.

 

Sure Mercedes was the best engine years ago, but now they are all more or less equalized. And second, even if Renault wasn't a works deal, I have the impression that McLaren could have had some influence over Renault on the technical side, which I imagine is completely impossible with Mercedes.

Edited by DeKnyff, 23 March 2023 - 14:58.

[SenorSjon]

I wonder if Key will return to the familiarity, comfort and lesser expectations of Alpha Tauri?

 

I wondered this as well. He wasn't doing too shabby there.

[pup]

Andrea, first day of work, goes down to the basement and brings up an old box from Whitmarsh’s office. Says to himself as he’s walking down the hall…. “mmmmatrix!”

[Sonic2k]

Maybe Williams?

Or Sauber/Audi? He was there for a short time. Not sure what's seidl is thinking about him though, 

[Quickshifter]

I had said earlier that it is unusual  for a team to miss the ball park by this extent. You cannot be passive in your approach. Mclaren were too late to realize the extent of the down-force losses from the new floor regulations. Mclaren were really patient with James Key but clearly  last year's car and this year's is evidence enough to say performance targets weren't challenging enough.

 

This is the boon of having a proper engineer who knows the ins and outs of running a race team. Stella is just that. Now he is laying his stamp and the way he wants to do things. He wants to clearly demarcate and differentiate responsibilities for various personnel and departments. Sanchez is a terrific addition. This structure where three people directly reporting to Stella looks  less ambiguous with clear demarcation. I am happy Mclaren haven't taken the under performance of last season and this lightly. Zak Brown and Andreas Stella clearly have laid out the rules.  

Edited by Quickshifter, 23 March 2023 - 15:25.

[Alfisti]

Audi need to wonder what they bought in siedl

[cbbcisace]

Or Sauber/Audi? He was there for a short time. Not sure what's seidl is thinking about him though,

Yes true was just thinking Williams need a technical director after FX left with Jost..

[GlenWatkins]

Well we will see..in time (again) whether these changes work but until then it just seems like moving pieces around which wont fix the fact that McLaren need a major car brand behind them to become front of the grid material again.

Has not Aston Martin proved that a customer team can run up front his year?

Edited by GlenWatkins, 23 March 2023 - 16:42.

[New Britain]

Well we will see..in time (again) whether these changes work but until then it just seems like moving pieces around which wont fix the fact that McLaren need a major car brand behind them to become front of the grid material again.

You mean like Red Bull have done?  

[pacificquay]

Good news, it moves the technical structure in line with that of the current top teams

[KWSN - DSM]

Has not Aston Martin proved that a customer team can run up front his year?

 

Yes.

 

And Mercedes that Manufacturer teams can drop the ball, which Ferrari may have done as well.

[Red5ive]

You mean like Red Bull have done?  

 

 

okay - or a major drinks manufacturer that is huge into sport.

 

That okay for you ?     to you too !

Edited by Red5ive, 23 March 2023 - 17:11.

[mclarensmps]

Andrea, first day of work, goes down to the basement and brings up an old box from Whitmarsh’s office. Says to himself as he’s walking down the hall…. “mmmmatrix!”

This is quite different from matrix actually. Matrix did away with all lead positions and flattened the heirarchy to make more design decisions by committee (horrendous idea if you want to be agile in a fast moving sport). McLaren is slowly returning to the way it should be with a bespoke lead for each field of the car's design. We need to move away from designing camels, and go back to designing horses.