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The 2024 Rally thread, covering all things rally from WRC to classic cars.


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#101 AlexPrime

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Posted 20 February 2024 - 11:11

I enjoyed rally Sweden, I don't follow the points really.  I think that championship will actually be quite close and exciting  :p



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#102 BRG

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Posted 26 February 2024 - 16:09

Just to wish Sebastian Loeb a very happy 50th birthday today. 

 

 

We have been privileged to witness a true GOAT.  And he isn't finished yet.



#103 ARTGP

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Posted 28 February 2024 - 17:41

Hybrid cars will be gone starting next year. WRC to abandon hybrid-powered Rally1 cars from 2025 (motorsport.com)


Bombshell? 


Edited by ARTGP, 28 February 2024 - 17:42.


#104 Muppetmad

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Posted 28 February 2024 - 17:54

Maybe I'm just not sharp enough to appreciate the upsides, but that seems like a very convoluted solution to me.



#105 Stephane

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Posted 28 February 2024 - 17:55

Also faster Rally2.

And new Rally1 in 26

#106 Anja

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Posted 28 February 2024 - 18:02

Sounds like a step in the right direction but yeah, could be convoluted - basically two rulesets running at once in Rally2 from next year and in Rally1 from 2026?



#107 Stephane

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Posted 28 February 2024 - 18:05

It's almost always the case in rallying. Wrc trophy a few years ago, the RRC, R5, S2000 racing together, the 2wd kit cars in the late '90s

#108 Myrvold

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Posted 28 February 2024 - 18:58

Anja, on 28 Feb 2024 - 18:02, said:

Sounds like a step in the right direction but yeah, could be convoluted - basically two rulesets running at once in Rally2 from next year and in Rally1 from 2026?

 

I don't understand where Rally2+ fits in.

In addition to that. The 2025 Rally1, which is the 2024 Rally1 without hybrid, less aero etc. will run together with the new Rally1 in 2026. So then Rally2+ should be kept?

 

I just don't get why someone would buy a 2025 Rally1 car, when there is a new - set price ruleset coming for 2026. Also, who would spent money and time on the Rally2+ concept when you don't really know how that will play out?

 

It feels like it would almost be a better idea to just say "cheaper rally1 for 2025. New rules for 2026". At least that way there could be a chance for more "rent-a-drive" drives (like Bertelli does) for 2025, before privateers start buying own stuff for 2026.

 

I think it is a step in the right direction, but it also is quite confusing, and sounds like a mess for 2025.



#109 Myrvold

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Posted 28 February 2024 - 18:58

In fact. I think I'll just copy in a post I did on another forum...

 

At the same time, there are some curious bits.
 

  • The cost per car will be capped at €400,000 and WRC manufacturers will be required to make their cars available for sale directly from the finish parc fermé of a WRC event.


This almost sounds like Bilcross/Folkrace where every car (with some exceptions) can be bought at the track after the race, and the owner cannot say no. But it can't mean that? What if a team loses all their cars?
 

  • The global calendar may include a small number of shorter sprint-style and longer endurance events in addition to the rallies that follow the existing format. Nevertheless, the overall timed kilometres covered during a season will remain largely unchanged with events still organised on a mix of asphalt, gravel and snow.


I fear this will lead to a lot more sprint-events, and with the FIA seemingly looking to expand the calendar, more short events will still give the "overall timed kilometres largely unchanged".
 

  • The current Rally1 car will continue as the WRC’s flagship vehicle in both 2025 and 2026 but with modifications to reduce cost and performance. These include the removal of the plug-in hybrid unit, with the performance compensated by a reduction in overall weight, and a reduction in the air restrictor and aerodynamics.

 

  • Rally2 cars will continue in their current form for the duration of their homologation as the basis for national and international series. However, Rally2 cars competing on WRC events from 2025 and beyond will have an option to run with a WRC kit consisting of a larger restrictor, a larger exhaust, an optional paddle shift gearbox and a rear wing with the objective of reducing the performance gap between Rally1 and Rally2 cars.

 

  • From 2026, revised Rally1 technical regulations for the WRC’s top-level category will be introduced based on the current Rally1 concept. These regulations will run alongside the current Rally1 regulations for the 2026 season.


This sounds like a small mess tbh. While the current Rally1 cars will be cheaper and easier to run. Who will spend loads of money on a concept that will last for a maximum of 2 years, with a new concept with a set price coming after just one year?
Rally2+ thing sounds interesting, but is it meant to actually compete with the new Rally1 concept in 2026? If so, why make two classes and not just make Rally2+ the main thing? If not, who will take the risk on spending money on such a kit for one year? It has also been tried before with the RRC->WRC, and that wasn't exactly much success either.

In a way it feels like they should've just gone with "some modifications to make Rally1 cheaper for 2025, and a new ruleset for 2026". I think that would've made it more viable for rent-to-drive entries in the style of Bertelli to do some random WRC events in Rally1, while not making a mess out of more classes as well.

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  • These new rules will use a common safety cell to reduce costs and complexity, and allow manufacturers and tuners to develop cars with their own bodywork based on production models including B-class, C-Class, compact SUV or a Concept Car designed to tight technical criteria such as centre of gravity and aerodynamics in order to equalize performance.

 

  • The power output will be targeted at 330hp, with the engine performance controlled by a reference torque curve for all cars. Engine and transmission will be cost-capped and technology limited to Rally2 equivalence. Aerodynamic efficiency will be limited along with a top speed restriction to reduce development and cost.

 

  • The cost per car will be capped at €400,000


With the exception that it still reads like a small mess with the Rally2-stuff, and I still don't quite understand where Rally2+ fits in to it all. I like it. It looks like they are trying to take what's the best from the WEC manufacturer-boom rules, and what seemed to work very well for the TCR class when that started, even though TCR have fizzled out a bit lately.

I still think that whatever the rules are, the top class cars in WRC, should be the same cars that drivers can use in national championships. That's how you get a nice amount of privateers trying to do one or two local/"local"/interesting WRC events.

I don't think it's perfect, but it's positive steps at least!



#110 JHSingo

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Posted 28 February 2024 - 19:17

Perhaps a little off-topic, but I feel this is potentially a significant development for motorsport beyond just rallying. The first global series (an FIA World Championship, no less) to adopt and then bin hybrid power, only within a couple of years. I could see this happening for a couple of other series, actually...

 

Some series are probably realizing that the complexity and expense of hybrid isn't really worth it when it comes to OEM involvement. Sustainable fuels seem a more logical, less expensive way of still retaining green credentials. 

 

For all the trouble IndyCar is having adopting hybrid, surely they should consider whether it's really worth it? Although at this stage, it's probably far too late given the R&D costs that have gone into that.

 

But something like BTCC, I don't think it's beyond the realms of possibility might take a look at this and realize hybrid isn't really working for them either.

 

Interesting times.



#111 Jvr

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Posted 29 February 2024 - 10:05

I don't get the rule that a car must be available to be sold after an event. Aren't the manufacturers going to buy competitors' cars to tear them down? And how will the spare parts be made available if a private team buys a car in such an auction for coming events?



#112 ArnageWRC

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Posted 29 February 2024 - 10:15

A 'hedge your bets' kind of decision.....Has all the makings of trying to please 'both' parties....

 

However, it's not just the cars that are the issue; promotion and event formats need more of a tweak. When over 95% of live coverage is behind a paywall, you're never going to succeed in bringing in new manufacturers, fans, etc  And I do wish they'd trial some finishes on a Saturday eve/night.....it might just work. They're too obsessed with the Sunday finish/ Power Stage.....



#113 ArnageWRC

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Posted 29 February 2024 - 10:23

JHSingo, on 28 Feb 2024 - 19:17, said:

Perhaps a little off-topic, but I feel this is potentially a significant development for motorsport beyond just rallying. The first global series (an FIA World Championship, no less) to adopt and then bin hybrid power, only within a couple of years. I could see this happening for a couple of other series, actually...

 

 

I think this is a WRC only issue. Far too late to adopt the hybrids, and when they did it was a spec unit; so the manufacturer had no relevant marketing to gain from it. Look at the comments from former Ford motorsport guy, Gerard Quinn on Twitter....he's been banging the drum for ages about how much of a mistake it was to adopt hybrids. 

 

It's another in a long line of terrible decisions that the WRC keeps making.......



#114 BRG

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Posted 29 February 2024 - 10:46

Steps in the right direction and starting to break down the current WRC monolith even if they are too scared to take the obvious big step of ditching Rally 1 altogether.  I agree the hybrid thing was pretty pointless.  Good decision to open up the rally formats to get some fresh air into the present totally stale concept.



#115 FLB

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Posted 09 March 2024 - 21:50

Dani Sordo will climb Pikes Peak for Hyundai: Hyundai Returns to the Pikes Peak International Hill Climb



#116 Anja

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Posted 12 March 2024 - 11:34

Spain will return to the WRC calendar next year, this time with Rally Islas Canarias: https://www.wrc.com/...alendar-in-2025



#117 noikeee

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Posted 12 March 2024 - 12:17

I haven't been in the Canaries in 30 years, wondering now if I should take the short plane trip... (from Madeira)

 

We were so close to getting the Madeira Rally in the WRC calendar in the early 2000s, and at the time we didn't get in because there were too many tarmac rallies at a time they were focusing more on gravel, and it would've been expensive for the teams to ship the cars to an island, what changed?



#118 Stephane

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Posted 29 March 2024 - 06:54

Thats Safari with 6min long stage still feels so weird....

#119 Anja

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Posted 29 March 2024 - 12:21

Lappi and Tanak out already, looks like we're heading for another Safari sweep for Toyota. 



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#120 Stephane

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Posted 29 March 2024 - 12:42

At Least Neuville is still in it for now.

#121 Stephane

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Posted 30 March 2024 - 05:59

Puncture for Evans

#122 Yamamoto

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Posted 30 March 2024 - 07:29

Hyundai's epic bid for an unbeaten season is looking precarious.



#123 ensign14

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Posted 30 March 2024 - 09:56

I will give you one sentence why I have not been bothered by rallying since the pre-Sebastian era.
 

Quote

 

Katsuta was 0.2s faster than Lappi, who rejoined the rally after his gearbox failure on Friday.

 

 

This is a level of dumbing-down that at which even Simon Cowell would cavil.



#124 Stephane

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Posted 30 March 2024 - 12:04

Neuville slow now.....



#125 Anja

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Posted 30 March 2024 - 12:16

Neuville's problem seems to be resolved but he lost over 2 minutes. Only Fourmaux left against Toyota 1-2-3, he's been taking it easy and it's paying off. 



#126 registered

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Posted 30 March 2024 - 12:43

Just tuned in. I am not a rally viewer at all. But what irritates me is the cutting together of sections in what is supposed to be a live broadcast. See Lappi start, cut ,already 3.20 in follow a bit, cut another car starts, cut 1 minute in the stage

#127 registered

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Posted 30 March 2024 - 12:46

But I like drivers opting to straightline some bends instead of taking the "road"
Are there rules/limits on how.much you can cut the intended route?

Edited by registered, 30 March 2024 - 12:47.


#128 Stephane

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Posted 30 March 2024 - 12:49

Neuville in the stage



#129 Stephane

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Posted 30 March 2024 - 12:53

Very slow at the 1st split



#130 registered

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Posted 30 March 2024 - 12:55

Looks like Neuville going for a Saturday drive

#131 Stephane

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Posted 30 March 2024 - 12:57

Stopped ,now



#132 Stephane

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Posted 30 March 2024 - 13:05

Back up to some speed.



#133 Stephane

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Posted 30 March 2024 - 13:41

Lappi hit something. Probably wildlife



#134 Jvr

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Posted 31 March 2024 - 06:44

I'm totally lost with these new rules: Tänak picked up 50 second penalty last night checking 5 minutes late out from the service and into the Parc Fermé. eWRC site is showing that the penalty has been added to Tänak's time for Sunday i.e. he would be currently almost 50 seconds behind Evans for Super Sunday points.

 

But the WRC site does not agree with this. So has the penalty been added to Tänak's time yesterday or is it to be added today's total time?

:stoned:

 

 


Edited by Jvr, 31 March 2024 - 07:04.


#135 Taxi

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Posted 01 April 2024 - 09:58

Yet another mess with the points. 5th place with more points than 2nd, 3rd, and 4rd and 13 more points than the sixth, and 8th with more points than the 6th and 7th. This is pathetic. 



#136 Stephane

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Posted 01 April 2024 - 10:04

Yeah, the end result of rallyes is a bit meaningless now.

#137 Myrvold

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Posted 01 April 2024 - 14:15

Yup.

My main issue is still that the actual rally result means nothing...



#138 Stephane

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Posted 01 April 2024 - 14:19

They get a nice trophy. Before we grouped them together to make a championship, that was the main goal.

#139 Taxi

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Posted 02 April 2024 - 13:57

Stephane, on 01 Apr 2024 - 14:19, said:

They get a nice trophy. Before we grouped them together to make a championship, that was the main goal.

 

Yeah those were the days. I'm actually glad the reigning double world champion Kalle Rovampera just said "well i'm out of this mess and just come sometimes to have some fun".  Says a lot about WRC management. 


Edited by Taxi, 02 April 2024 - 13:59.


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#140 ARTGP

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Posted 06 April 2024 - 15:58

The plot thickens. Toyota, Hyundai, and M-Sport Ford have written a letter to the FIA requesting that they cancel the technical changes for 2025. They want to use the current rally 1 cars through the end of the original regulations cycle (2026). The teams think there isn't enough time to develop the new cars before 2025. 

 

WRC teams pushing FIA to keep current Rally1 rules for 2025 (autosport.com)

 

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Multiple sources have confirmed to Motorsport.com that Toyota, Hyundai and M-Sport have collectively written a letter to the FIA expressing a need for the current Rally1 technical rules to see out the original window from 2022 to the end of 2026.


#141 BRG

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Posted 09 April 2024 - 09:01

Taking a break from the Red Bull civil war, Jos Verstappen will compete in the 2nd round of the British Rally Championship this weekend, the Rallynuts Stages in central Wales.  This will be his first time on an all gravel forestry rally, I believe. Whilst he has had plenty of fun on slippery and muddy Belgian back roads, Welsh forest stages are a bit different and I will be interested to see how he gets on.  Although I do not think much of him as a human being, I have been impressed by his efforts taking up rallying for the first time at age 50+ and doing really well. 

 

ITV4 will show highlights sometime next week if you want to see Jos upside down in Wales!!



#142 InSearchOfThe

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Posted 12 April 2024 - 18:23

What's the word on the WRC Manufacturers running wrc2 cars at Chattanooga in June? Is that an Exibition only demo?
Being only 4 hours south makes the '26 full blown WRC event doable. Doubtful for me this year. I haven't heard must of a buzz yet.

#143 ArnageWRC

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Posted 13 April 2024 - 12:02

ERC Rally Hungary - as usual live on RallyTV.

 

BRC - Rallynuts Severn Valley Stages from Mid Wales, featuring classic stages Hafren, Myherin & Sweetlamb; end of stage coverage available on just Facebook (no You Tube coverage like most other motorsport series).



#144 BRG

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Posted 13 April 2024 - 17:28

Osian Pryce takes the Rallynuts Severn Valley Stages win. 

 

Jos Verstappen finishes 11th but four and half minutes behind the winner but a good effort for his first attempt at a British gravel forestry rally.



#145 ArnageWRC

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Posted 16 April 2024 - 14:16

https://dirtfish.com...funding-delays/

 

No Irish WRC round for 2025; not really a surprise. 



#146 Myrvold

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Posted 17 April 2024 - 11:33

Welcome to Rally CroatiaCarlo?

 

 

 

It is indeed Beäääääääutiful!

 

 

Probably not the easiest conditions for Recce and fixing pacenotes. Can be a bit interesting for the rally :)


Edited by Myrvold, 17 April 2024 - 11:33.


#147 Stephane

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Posted 19 April 2024 - 07:13

Thierry showing the way. Just hope it lasts



#148 Anja

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Posted 19 April 2024 - 13:05

Certainly looks like it's gonna be between him and Evans. Hard to see anyone else catching them on pace. 



#149 Stephane

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Posted 19 April 2024 - 13:12

I was sure Ogier would be closer.



#150 Stephane

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Posted 19 April 2024 - 14:08

10s lost with a wheel issue for Thierry