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MoneyGram Haas 2024 Thread


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#101 speedx

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Posted 03 March 2024 - 22:03

So Haas are the fastest on the straights, top 4 on tire degradation and top 6 on race pace.

Like some say, Haas is the new Williams.

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#102 JeanAlesi27

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Posted 06 March 2024 - 14:34

It'll be interesting to see where HAAS are this weekend...  I love seeing Hulk up in the top 10 in the time sheets.



#103 Mark521

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Posted 06 March 2024 - 15:12

As it's a low deg track surface and the air temp is expected to be mild (~75F) I would guess their race pace will be okay. Can they stay out of trouble?



#104 AlexS

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Posted 06 March 2024 - 15:48

When is not the engineering or operational side it is the drivers that have an uncanny capability to keep getting into trouble. The first thing is for Magnussen to get a better pace, 0.7 from Hulk is a giant distance.


Edited by AlexS, 06 March 2024 - 15:49.


#105 rocque

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Posted 06 March 2024 - 16:46

Quote

In retrospect, Hülkenberg cursed his bad start, the reasons for which were not yet entirely clear after the Grand Prix. "I was very, very careful in the first corner, I really left a lot of space. Maybe I got a little push from Valtteri, which pushed me into Lance. From my perspective, the distance to Lance was safe. That's extreme frustrating because it ruined the race. I was hoping for a safety car, but unfortunately it didn't come."

https://www.auto-mot...h-bahrain-2024/

 

Quote

What happened at the start there?! It's straight into wheel spin! *swearing*

https://youtu.be/gdL...1cN41y7gT&t=184

 

Pirelli rates Jeddah as 2/5 in terms of downforce levels. To be honest, it's a lot lower than I expected, so we have to wait another four weeks to find out how good is their high downforce package. Anyway, I suppose that low/medium is probably better.

https://press.pirell...prix---preview/


Edited by rocque, 06 March 2024 - 17:38.


#106 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 06 March 2024 - 17:12

Hulkenberg have a history no poor starts.

 

He mucked up, own it and move on.



#107 rocque

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Posted 06 March 2024 - 18:19

KWSN - DSM, on 06 Mar 2024 - 17:12, said:

Hulkenberg have a history no poor starts.

 

He mucked up, own it and move on.

Turn 1 is his fault.

The launch off was worse than usual.

 

EDIT:

Quote

Bahrain start: Hülkenberg innocent

In Bahrain, Nico Hülkenberg messed up the start - and then collided with Lance Stroll. Now team boss Ayao Komatsu defended the German in today's media round.
 
"I can say that it wasn't his fault," he says of the bad start and explains: "There was something about the car that he didn't expect." Now they want to find out “how the problem arose.”
 
Of course, looking back, it doesn't help Hülkenberg anymore, but at least it might be reassuring to know that it wasn't his fault.

from motorsport-total.com liveticker


Edited by rocque, 06 March 2024 - 18:30.


#108 Baddoer

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Posted 09 March 2024 - 18:28

Good job Hulkenburg and Magnusson playing team card. Car is not too bad all in all



#109 Sixteen3

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Posted 09 March 2024 - 18:35

Lots of speed, less tire deg - congrats with their hard work in the off season.



#110 Mark521

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Posted 09 March 2024 - 18:37

Baddoer, on 09 Mar 2024 - 18:28, said:

Good job Hulkenburg and Magnusson playing team card. Car is not too bad all in all

 

Agreed, both cars showed they could fight all race long. Jeddah is a low deg track and it's wasn't very hot but their lap times at the end of stints were pretty good. I guess it's due to the high rates of inflation that 5 second penalties now cost 10 seconds  :rotfl:



#111 AlexS

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Posted 09 March 2024 - 18:40

Excellent job by Hulk, Mag and the team. The work done in winter giving points already.



#112 BoDarvelle

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Posted 09 March 2024 - 18:40

Stroll stuffing it in the fence gave an opportunity for a point and they took it. Very nice.

 

The top 5 are far enough ahead right now that Stroll being Stroll is about the only opportunity for points short of a mechanical failure for one of the others.



#113 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 09 March 2024 - 18:41

Obviously not good how Magnussen managed to accumulate 20 seconds worth of penalties, we can always disagree on them being just or not - Getting them were as I see it, as correct as if not getting them. The car clearly have some speed, it did not eat it's tires and Magnussen gave a masterclass showing how you drive for the team and your team mate.

 

Ver happy for Haas, Magnussen and Hulkenberg.



#114 Laster

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Posted 09 March 2024 - 18:41

I can’t blame the team or KMag for tactically becoming a road block, and KMag was supreme in his defensive drive as he always is. But I do hate that penalty. How hard is it for the FIA to order someone to give the position back? By just dishing out time penalties it allows offending drivers so much opportunity. Still well played Haas they sensed the opportunity and knew they could count on Magnussen to play the team game. That was as much his point today as Hulks.

#115 Ali623

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Posted 09 March 2024 - 18:43

Great job by the team and drivers today, points are going to be near-impossible for the bottom 5 teams this season. Not getting carried away regarding them fixing the tyre issues yet though, they started last year well too (also got a point in SA last year), if they are still in this position by Abu Dhabi then that'll be impressive improvement. Not so much yet.



#116 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 09 March 2024 - 18:46

Kudos to Magnussen for the sacrifice he made in holding up their competitors and Hulkenberg for maximising the car to get the final point. Maybe, just maybe they’ll operate like a serious F1 operation with Komatsu’s stewardship.

#117 DutchQuicksilver

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Posted 09 March 2024 - 18:47

Haas seem to be best of the rest at the moment. Kudos to them for that achievement with the lowest budget.

#118 BoDarvelle

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Posted 09 March 2024 - 18:56



#119 AlexS

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Posted 09 March 2024 - 19:21

STRFerrari4Ever, on 09 Mar 2024 - 18:46, said:

Kudos to Magnussen for the sacrifice he made in holding up their competitors and Hulkenberg for maximising the car to get the final point. Maybe, just maybe they’ll operate like a serious F1 operation with Komatsu’s stewardship.

 Steiner was a bad distraction.



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#120 BoDarvelle

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Posted 09 March 2024 - 19:22

STRFerrari4Ever, on 09 Mar 2024 - 18:46, said:

Kudos to Magnussen for the sacrifice he made in holding up their competitors and Hulkenberg for maximising the car to get the final point. Maybe, just maybe they’ll operate like a serious F1 operation with Komatsu’s stewardship.



#121 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 09 March 2024 - 19:29

I do not really think the switch from Steiner to Komatsu have any influence on the result today.



#122 STRFerrari4Ever

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Posted 09 March 2024 - 19:35

KWSN - DSM, on 09 Mar 2024 - 19:29, said:

I do not really think the switch from Steiner to Komatsu have any influence on the result today.


I think it does, their approach in testing was markedly different and they’ve made strides in improving their tyre wear woes from last season which they never rectified throughout an entire season last season.

#123 BoDarvelle

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Posted 09 March 2024 - 19:37

STRFerrari4Ever, on 09 Mar 2024 - 19:35, said:

I think it does, their approach in testing was markedly different and they’ve made strides in improving their tyre wear woes from last season which they never rectified throughout an entire season last season.

 

Past race management never gave the impression of having plans, unlike today.

 

Even the pitstops are faster after being a ridiculous joke for years. Four+ seconds were normal. The had a top ten pitstop last week. When did that ever happen?



#124 CaptHaddock91

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Posted 09 March 2024 - 21:34

Laster, on 09 Mar 2024 - 18:41, said:

I can’t blame the team or KMag for tactically becoming a road block, and KMag was supreme in his defensive drive as he always is. But I do hate that penalty. How hard is it for the FIA to order someone to give the position back? By just dishing out time penalties it allows offending drivers so much opportunity. Still well played Haas they sensed the opportunity and knew they could count on Magnussen to play the team game. That was as much his point today as Hulks.

Disgusting. Drive throughs exist exactly to avoid shitshows like the one we saw today. A penalised driver used as a tool from his team. Shows how little FIA understands the sport.

Edited by CaptHaddock91, 09 March 2024 - 21:35.


#125 Montie

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 15:28

Funny how Albon himself believes the incident with Magnussen was a racing incident.

Both Coullthard and Palmer on F1TV was baffled about the penalties and especially being 10 sec each. Usually if a penalty is given in these circumstances they are 5 sec.
Normally you are told to give back the position to avoid penalty as in the case with Tsunoda. This was not presented as an option yesterday.

Are 10 sec penalty the new standard?
I suspect something else is afoot, I have noticed we rarely see British drivers being penalized.

#126 Frood

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 15:56

The first example of the 10 second penalty being the norm this year was Luke Browning picking one up in the F3 Bahrain sprint race for what seemed like a very well executed overtake ending slightly outside of the lines at Turn 4. He's British.

#127 Montie

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 16:06

Frood, on 10 Mar 2024 - 15:56, said:

The first example of the 10 second penalty being the norm this year was Luke Browning picking one up in the F3 Bahrain sprint race for what seemed like a very well executed overtake ending slightly outside of the lines at Turn 4. He's British.


Luke Browning is not in F1..

#128 cbo

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 16:27

Montie, on 10 Mar 2024 - 15:28, said:

Funny how Albon himself believes the incident with Magnussen was a racing incident.

Both Coullthard and Palmer on F1TV was baffled about the penalties and especially being 10 sec each. Usually if a penalty is given in these circumstances they are 5 sec.
Normally you are told to give back the position to avoid penalty as in the case with Tsunoda. This was not presented as an option yesterday.

Are 10 sec penalty the new standard?
I suspect something else is afoot, I have noticed we rarely see British drivers being penalized.


There was some mention of the stewards being told to use the different penalties more.

What they had in mind, I believe, was to use the 10 second penalty instead of the 5 seconds to prevent faster drivers from gaining an advantage by braking the rules, gaining track position and then make up the time.

But teams and drivers will find ways to game the system anyway as HAAS did so very well in Jeddah.

Edited by cbo, 10 March 2024 - 16:29.


#129 baddog

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 20:38

Im assuming the change to 10 secs is policy (and a good one, 5 was a joke). Maybe they told the drivers in briefings and our great media just failed to report it?



#130 baddog

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 20:40

CaptHaddock91, on 09 Mar 2024 - 21:34, said:

Disgusting. Drive throughs exist exactly to avoid shitshows like the one we saw today. A penalised driver used as a tool from his team. Shows how little FIA understands the sport.

 

The penalty is for the driver not the other driver and the team on the whole. Magnussen finished last as a penalty for his wrongdoings. Once in that situation is is logical for a team to reassess what the driver can do for the team.



#131 ATM

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 21:10

baddog, on 10 Mar 2024 - 20:38, said:

Im assuming the change to 10 secs is policy (and a good one, 5 was a joke). Maybe they told the drivers in briefings and our great media just failed to report it?

On Sky, Croft mentioned two times, I think, that the 10 second rule is applied for such offences starting with this year. He passed it on not as hearsay, but as an official guideline which the stewards will enforce.

#132 ATM

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 21:10

Sorry, double post.

Edited by ATM, 10 March 2024 - 21:10.


#133 CaptHaddock91

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 21:25

baddog, on 10 Mar 2024 - 20:40, said:

The penalty is for the driver not the other driver and the team on the whole. Magnussen finished last as a penalty for his wrongdoings. Once in that situation is is logical for a team to reassess what the driver can do for the team.

 

Magnussen lost only 1 position due to his penalties. Which again shows these were inadequate.

 

In any case, I disagree with your post. It was plain to see that Magnussen's goal in the race was to hold back the drivers behind him, and that he was determined in going beyond the rules to get this done. This is not acceptable and had to be stopped by race direction once he went past that line. He willingly went against the rules and got away with his intended result - that' exactly what race direction should try and avoid, as it could easily happen again.

As for the praise for his defensive driving, he would deserve it had he kept it clean. True, his counterattack on Tsunoda in turn 1 was brilliant, but he was still in that position only through irregular moves.



#134 expert

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 21:27

Laster, on 09 Mar 2024 - 18:41, said:

I can’t blame the team or KMag for tactically becoming a road block, and KMag was supreme in his defensive drive as he always is. But I do hate that penalty. How hard is it for the FIA to order someone to give the position back? By just dishing out time penalties it allows offending drivers so much opportunity. Still well played Haas they sensed the opportunity and knew they could count on Magnussen to play the team game. That was as much his point today as Hulks.

Seems like a drive through penalty would be more appropriate here so that they can't retain track position. 

Whatever happened to those?



#135 Anderis

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 21:45

expert, on 10 Mar 2024 - 21:27, said:

Whatever happened to those?

Drivers and fans whinged that penalties discouraged wheel to wheel racing so they changed the penalties to be less harsh. Or at least that's what I think happened, because I don't remember any official justification.


 



#136 TomNokoe

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 21:46

Magnussen should've been given a drive-through for illegally and blatantly maintaining position vs Yuki, and then the roadblock strategy would've never played out.

#137 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 22:00

CaptHaddock91, on 10 Mar 2024 - 21:25, said:

Magnussen lost only 1 position due to his penalties. Which again shows these were inadequate.

 

In any case, I disagree with your post. It was plain to see that Magnussen's goal in the race was to hold back the drivers behind him, and that he was determined in going beyond the rules to get this done. This is not acceptable and had to be stopped by race direction once he went past that line. He willingly went against the rules and got away with his intended result - that' exactly what race direction should try and avoid, as it could easily happen again.

As for the praise for his defensive driving, he would deserve it had he kept it clean. True, his counterattack on Tsunoda in turn 1 was brilliant, but he was still in that position only through irregular moves.

 

What Kevin did is actually what it is all about, race, defend, overtake - Once he had accumulated 20 seconds he put on a show of what exactly F1 could be when cars are equal - He did such a good job that

 

a) Hulkenberg salvaged 1 point for Haas

b) The media handing out rankings want to punish him for the penalties, at same time realize how he did in fact race as well as could be done.



#138 CaptHaddock91

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 22:18

KWSN - DSM, on 10 Mar 2024 - 22:00, said:

What Kevin did is actually what it is all about, race, defend, overtake - Once he had accumulated 20 seconds he put on a show of what exactly F1 could be when cars are equal - He did such a good job that

 

a) Hulkenberg salvaged 1 point for Haas

b) The media handing out rankings want to punish him for the penalties, at same time realize how he did in fact race as well as could be done.

Nah. Albon's runs to seventh in Canada and Monza last year showed how you can defend properly. Magnussen is simply unable to do that and has to resort to irregular moves.



#139 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 22:34

CaptHaddock91, on 10 Mar 2024 - 22:18, said:

Nah. Albon's runs to seventh in Canada and Monza last year showed how you can defend properly. Magnussen is simply unable to do that and has to resort to irregular moves.

 

I am  not sure you really like Magnussen,



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#140 baddog

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 23:47

CaptHaddock91, on 10 Mar 2024 - 21:25, said:

Magnussen lost only 1 position due to his penalties. Which again shows these were inadequate.

 

I absolutely agree, and there should be drivethroughs at least for all such offences. Thats not the rules though :/



#141 William Hunt

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Posted 10 March 2024 - 23:49

Kevin got his ellbows out and fought like a soldier in the battlefield trenches. It was kinda on the limit though, he raced agressively. But personally I liked his fighting spirit, he showed to be a real team player and that he is not done yet in F1 and is prepared to fight for his seat (with Bearman breathing down his neck but if Hülkenberg leaves to, say Sauber or maybe even Mercedes, that might save Kevin's seat for an...; 8th season at Haas).
For me, I don't mind seeing him still on the grid next year, if he keeps showing he is prepared to fight like he did in Jeddah (he was pretty good in the race in Bahrein too, just the qualy speed is still a problem) but if he stays on the grid I hope it's at a team like Williams (Sargeant's seat) because I'm fed up with seeing drivers every year in the same team, I want variation (Hamilton stayed 12 years at Mercedes, that's just far too long to be fun for fans, I'm glad Lewis moves to Ferrari).



#142 baddog

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Posted 11 March 2024 - 00:37

The problem with Kevin is he doesnt seem to know the limit and lacks spatial awareness. After all these years he still does stuff like hitting albon this weekend.



#143 BoDarvelle

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Posted 11 March 2024 - 01:12

CaptHaddock91, on 10 Mar 2024 - 21:25, said:

Magnussen lost only 1 position due to his penalties. Which again shows these were inadequate.

 

In any case, I disagree with your post. It was plain to see that Magnussen's goal in the race was to hold back the drivers behind him, and that he was determined in going beyond the rules to get this done. 

 

Watch or listen to his in car and you will know this is false.

 

Pretty clear you are saying what you believe with zero evidence.



#144 MaxisOne

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Posted 11 March 2024 - 01:26

baddog, on 10 Mar 2024 - 20:40, said:

The penalty is for the driver not the other driver and the team on the whole. Magnussen finished last as a penalty for his wrongdoings. Once in that situation is is logical for a team to reassess what the driver can do for the team.

Maaan .. It was low down dirty but i loved every second of it :rotfl: . Quite a few races got screwed with his enforcement of mandatory attendance on the "Trulli Train"



#145 BoDarvelle

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Posted 11 March 2024 - 01:37

I don't recall people saying Alonso should be parked or get a drive through for this;

 



#146 Myrvold

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Posted 11 March 2024 - 02:04

Laster, on 09 Mar 2024 - 18:41, said:

How hard is it for the FIA to order someone to give the position back?

Montie, on 10 Mar 2024 - 15:28, said:

Normally you are told to give back the position to avoid penalty as in the case with Tsunoda. This was not presented as an option yesterday.

Are 10 sec penalty the new standard?
I suspect something else is afoot, I have noticed we rarely see British drivers being penalized.


"Give the position back" is not a penalty or order the stewards can give at all. As simple as that.
The race director are allowed to in F1. But I am happy that the race directors post-Masi keeps to what they are supposed to do, and don't get involved in things that's not a part of their responsibility.

As I guess you've been told. 10 sec is the new standard.

Simple and easy answers, and no tinfoil needed.

#147 baddog

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Posted 11 March 2024 - 03:01

Myrvold, on 11 Mar 2024 - 02:04, said:

"Give the position back" is not a penalty or order the stewards can give at all. As simple as that.
The race director are allowed to in F1. But I am happy that the race directors post-Masi keeps to what they are supposed to do, and don't get involved in things that's not a part of their responsibility.
 

 

Indeed, no direction or discussion takes place now. It is up to the team and driver to drive and behave right, and if they don't they get warning flags and penalties accordingly. This is much much better.



#148 ATM

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Posted 11 March 2024 - 10:53

BoDarvelle, on 11 Mar 2024 - 01:37, said:

I don't recall people saying Alonso should be parked or get a drive through for this;



Yeaaah, I recall Brundle's statement about that one, something like "after piling everybody up and getting his plan done, Alonso quietly left the scene", meaning he finally put his foot down and left everydody in the dust. Kind of whas Magnussen did too.

#149 Laster

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Posted 11 March 2024 - 11:43

Myrvold, on 11 Mar 2024 - 02:04, said:

"Give the position back" is not a penalty or order the stewards can give at all. As simple as that.

I know that and it’s a grievance I’ve had with the FIA since they introduced the 5 second penalty for overtaking off track. 5, 10 a million second penalty, it doesn’t matter it completely misses the point. When a driver overtakes off track it’s not just them they are affecting, they can ruin another drivers race like Magnussen showed. Ordering a driver back behind is the only solution, which is why I ask how hard is it to enforce?

But for some reason the FIA have never considered it, preferring to dish out a more often than not meaningless 5 second penalty, and now a 10 second penalty that was immediately abused the first time it was enforced. They very clearly don’t understand the issue, and for the life of me I can’t figure out why they refuse to make ‘give the place back’ an option for themselves when it makes by far the most sense.

#150 Azlan

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Posted 11 March 2024 - 12:31

baddog, on 11 Mar 2024 - 00:37, said:

The problem with Kevin is he doesnt seem to know the limit and lacks spatial awareness. After all these years he still does stuff like hitting albon this weekend.

The usual KMAG bias.  Perez 7 penalty points, Hamilton 4 penalty points, Russel 4 penalty points, but Kevin never learns and has lack of spatial awareness.

Albon expressed after the race that he thought it was a racing accident and Tsunoda admitted he was partially at fault for letting Kevin repass him before the corner so in hindsight, maybe the penalties were quite harsh.

I would like these penalties to be served at once though, because we have seen time and time again that the penalties become meaningless when not served at once.