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MoneyGram Haas 2024 Thread


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#1 rocque

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Posted 07 January 2024 - 12:20

But the dependence on Maranello is also a curse for the American blended family. Of course, the Haas engineers also took their technical partner as a guide when it came to the parts that they had to develop themselves. It's no coincidence that the Haas VF-23 looked similar to the Ferrari SF-23. And it shouldn't be surprising that Ferrari also had problems with tire management, but was able to get the problem under control better because there are three times as many people working on the solution. "When things go well at Ferrari, our dependence is a strength. Conversely, we inherit the weaknesses."

 
Haas is one of the teams that will compete in 2024 with a completely different car architecture in order to exploit the aerodynamics in a similar way to Red Bull. To achieve this, the chassis will be longer, the gearbox shorter and both will be cut like a kayak on the underside. This creates more freedom for the front Venturi channels and the diffuser in the rear. The ramp-shaped sidepods are a departure from the inwash to the downwash principle, where you can better control the extremely critical flow between the rear wheels and the floor pan. Steiner is also convinced that Ferrari will make the right move when it comes to the chassis. “They understood what went wrong and what we need to keep the tires in better condition in 2024.”

Full article:

https://twitter.com/...275988077728119

 

Did the tire problem in the race have more to do with aerodynamics or mechanics?

Nico Hülkenberg: The majority is aerodynamics. In the race we try to fight with cars that have more downforce. But they inherently drive faster with less effort and stress on the tires. We have to give it our all, and you immediately enter this vicious circle in which the tire overheats, you slip even more and you can't get out of the spiral.
 
Are you going into the race with a completely different plan?
NH: It's actually like that. We often stayed out of duels as much as possible in the starting phase because the problem got worse in traffic. You would have immediately destroyed your tire and would have had your back against the wall with that strategy.
 
Have you ever had a car with two different faces in your career?
NH: I've had it before, but not as bad as this season. The 2017 Renault was pretty similar. It's always the car in connection with the tire.
 
Haas put a lot of effort into building a B Spec car. What did it achieve?
NH: Nothing.
That sounds sobering.
NH: Sobering and alarming. You can't hide that. We have to be honest with ourselves and admit that it doesn't meet our needs if we put so much work into converting the car and then the end result is almost the same. It's our job to do better next year.
 
Have you at least learned enough to do better next year?
NH: We have to prove that first. I can't answer that with confidence now. We probably have to position ourselves a little differently internally so that the same thing doesn't happen again.
 
How can it be that your colleague Magnussen prefers to drive the new car, but you prefer the old one?
NH: That's to some extent personal preference. The old car has more downforce in fast corners. The data also proves this. Kevin probably made the better choice in Las Vegas. We'd never driven the new package in the low-downforce configuration before, and it worked surprisingly well. In Abu Dhabi the pendulum has swung back towards old cars.
 
Was the B spec not given enough time?
NH: The upgrade was a bit out of necessity. We had a modification to the underbody in Miami, but it was nothing major. Then nothing happened for a long time. The Sunday problems got bigger and bigger. The pressure on the engineers also increased, and this resulted in this B version. Also of course because we have seen that all good cars have switched to the Red Bull philosophy, including Ferrari. It made sense to jump on this bandwagon too. We did it, but I don't think we understood it. The wind tunnel has already shown that the values are not improving. The hope was that we could get rid of these so-called "delta-to-map" problems. But there are still big discrepancies between what the wind tunnel promises and what the race track delivers.

Junaid has posted the whole interview, but he hasn't merged all tweets into one thread. If you are going to find all of them, just look for Dec 19, 2023.

 

“It might be hard for you to believe, but we didn’t expect it to be better,” Magnussen insisted.

 
“I’d be lying if I said I wasn’t hoping something unexpected would come from it. It didn’t, but that was expected.
 
“We took a lot of learning from this. Both me and Nico got a good feeling with this concept of car and there’s some interesting things like the consistency of the front end.
 
“And with this concept it’s got a lot less downforce, so the fact I can actually qualify not that far from him with the amount of downforce we are missing, on that package, it shows that some other parts are good.
 
“We can work with that and hopefully take a big step next year.”

https://www.the-race...-2023-reaction/

 

2024 Ferrari F1 car will be "95%" new, claims Vasseur

https://www.motorspo...t-new/10562134/

 

Will Haas be able to reverse their fortunes this year?


Edited by rocque, 07 January 2024 - 12:27.


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#2 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 07 January 2024 - 12:35

I think Haas will have a tough 2024, last two seasons do not give a lot of confidence they will suddenly move up the ranks. At best they battle Williams for last.



#3 KevintheMag

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Posted 08 January 2024 - 18:31

Will Haas be able to reverse their fortunes this year?

 

 

YES :clap:



#4 midgrid

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Posted 10 January 2024 - 17:08

I've split the change of team principal news to its own thread: https://forums.autos...-komatsu-split/



#5 jcbc3

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Posted 10 January 2024 - 19:33

For those who are unsure of Komatsu, here's a profile from a couple of months ago.: https://www.autospor...-haas/10528061/

 

And here's an interview with him from 2021 about being a tire engineer: https://www.autospor...ing-f1/6634785/



#6 RedRabbit

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Posted 10 January 2024 - 19:34

That interview by Hulk is brutal. KMag is a little more telling in that he didn't expect any improvement. That upgrade last year was a guinea pig for Ferrari to gather data.

Hopefully it was worth it and both teams are better this season. Be great for Hulk to capitalize on some of his regular Q3 appearances.

#7 PayasYouRace

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 14:25

Another highly original HAAS livery.

 

https://www.autospor...ivery/10571758/
 

IMG-0632.jpg



#8 Anja

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 14:33

Probably my favourite Haas livery so far, nothing new but the details are much better than in their previous ones. 



#9 Frood

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 14:39

I can say that is certainly a livery that has been applied to a Formula One car.

I am thoroughly whelmed.

#10 JimmyClark

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 14:48

Probably my favourite Haas livery so far, nothing new but the details are much better than in their previous ones.


My favourite was the Uralkali one, but I guess it's not cool to say that.

Anyway, it seems we have another year of very dark "liveries" (can one call it a livery if it's mostly naked carbon?).

#11 mclarensmps

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 14:52

Asiatech Minardi vibes



#12 FirstnameLastname

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 14:52

Speaks value to me

Tesco Value rather than ‘Liberty Value’ unfortunately. S

#13 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 14:56

I am a Haas fan, so temper with that - How is Haas any worse than most other teams? is this the annual derogatory towards Haas just for being Haas?



#14 grandmastashi

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 15:20

That's definitely a modicum of white and red paint on exposed carbon.  

 

I wish the FIA had closed the paint weight loophole. 


Edited by grandmastashi, 02 February 2024 - 15:34.


#15 Ali623

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 15:26

So between this and McLaren so far, another year of rubbish exposed carbon, half-painted liveries...



#16 PayasYouRace

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 15:38

That's definitely a modicum of white and red paint on exposed carbon.

I wish the FIA had closed the paint weight loophole.


You say paint weight loophole as if it wasn’t the thing that birthed a famous myth 90 years ago with the original Silver Arrows.

#17 JimmyClark

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 15:43

I am a Haas fan, so temper with that - How is Haas any worse than most other teams? is this the annual derogatory towards Haas just for being Haas?

 

I guess Haas don't get the backmarker love many have had in the past, but I presume it's down to: 

- The Mazepin year (that did a lot of damage)

- The treatment of Mick (although I didn't think he deserved the drive really after that second year of no improvment, so I don't hold this against them)

- The dull liveries

- The lack of 'racers' at the top, especially since Gunther has gone. Carl Haas just, rightly or wrongly, feels like a parts salesman rather than someone with a huge passion for his project. 

- Lack of inspiring drivers over the years (IIRC I can only think of six permanent drivers since they started, and all of their F1 careers ended with Haas). 

- The impression they are just happy to 'be there'. 

 

Some of these points might be downright wrong, but its the impression they give. 



#18 midgrid

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 16:28

Gene Haas.  The late Carl Haas was unrelated.



#19 Spillage

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 16:43

Bit of a boring livery again sadly. Why not make something that turns heads?

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#20 Boing 2

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 16:45

I guess Haas don't get the backmarker love many have had in the past, but I presume it's down to: 

- The Mazepin year (that did a lot of damage)

- The treatment of Mick (although I didn't think he deserved the drive really after that second year of no improvment, so I don't hold this against them)

- The dull liveries

- The lack of 'racers' at the top, especially since Gunther has gone. Carl Haas just, rightly or wrongly, feels like a parts salesman rather than someone with a huge passion for his project. 

- Lack of inspiring drivers over the years (IIRC I can only think of six permanent drivers since they started, and all of their F1 careers ended with Haas). 

- The impression they are just happy to 'be there'. 

 

Some of these points might be downright wrong, but its the impression they give. 

More down to the fact that previous backmarkers that people loved seemed to be genuinely trying their damnedest to win whereas Haas in its fundamental concept seems to be all about going F1 racing as cheaply as possible and is primarily a marketing exercise.



#21 Boing 2

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 16:46

Is this just a livery launch? I thought they announced this as a car launch date?



#22 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 17:07

It’s the new car. Everything about it is different.

Some big hints towards what Ferrari's up to.

Edited by ConsiderAndGo, 02 February 2024 - 17:07.


#23 Mark521

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 17:13

As liveries go, to me it's just okay. Unfortunately the 2 main sponsors use the colors red, black and white, so either it's mostly white or mostly black as I guess they don't want to look too much like Ferrari. The "black and gold" was actually pretty nice but the cost was too high   ;)



#24 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 17:21

Bit of a boring livery again sadly. Why not make something that turns heads?

 

Which cars do you find have good liveries? I list mine

 

Ferrari

Williams

 

Rest are all mehh



#25 Organic

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 17:26

They have already admitted they expect to be last or thereabouts. Embarrassing team

Car looks alright. Surprised it won't be any good but the devil is in the detail

#26 Anderis

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 17:30

I like the livery. Nothing too fancy but clean and elegant.



#27 Boing 2

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 17:34

It’s the new car. Everything about it is different.

Some big hints towards what Ferrari's up to.

https://www.autospor...ivery/10571758/

 

 

Haas has unveiled the livery it will run on its yet-to-be revealed 2024 Formula 1 challenger the VF-24.

 

 

Headlines saying it's a livery launch



#28 JimmyClark

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 19:15

Gene Haas. The late Carl Haas was unrelated.


Haha yep, I was writing that and thought "get the right Haas, don't say Carl" and I still did. DOH.

#29 Clrnc

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 20:01

https://www.autospor...ivery/10571758/


Headlines saying it's a livery launch

Massive difference though

https://twitter.com/...1310281869?s=19

Looks like a certain car...

#30 Boing 2

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 20:20

Yeah, The Race just did side-by-sides, definitely the new car.



#31 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 20:24

https://www.autospor...ivery/10571758/


Headlines saying it's a livery launch


Sod the headline just look at the damn thing lol

#32 Alfisti

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 20:25

It absolutely stuns me that F1 is all about sponsors yet teams roll out black or grey cars that blend with the road. Bright colours people, BRIGHT ****ing COLOURS. 



#33 RedRabbit

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 20:39

It's definitely an early version of the '24 car.

- Different role hoop/intake from '23.
- Side Pods are shaped differently and the air intake is quite small.
- Bigger undercut with lower side
impact protection.
- It's also quite detailed where front wing meets endplate. Much more than you need for a livery launch.

It's Haas, it would be more surprising if the car at testing was different to this one.

It's a nice looking car though, and I don't mind the livery.

#34 ARTGP

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 20:51

Isn't it a computer generated render? 



#35 RedRabbit

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 21:16

Isn't it a computer generated render?


Yeah, but you know that's how the cars are designed. It's as good as looking at photo of the real thing

#36 OvDrone

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Posted 02 February 2024 - 22:46

As a Motorsport backmarker livery connoisseur, I am impressed by this Minardi-esque effort.



#37 BoDarvelle

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Posted 03 February 2024 - 01:25

More down to the fact that previous backmarkers that people loved seemed to be genuinely trying their damnedest to win whereas Haas in its fundamental concept seems to be all about going F1 racing as cheaply as possible and is primarily a marketing exercise.

 

We'll just ignore Gene's own words; "I'm embarrassed to finish last."

 

And his getting rid of Steiner due to the lack of performance.



#38 rocque

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Posted 03 February 2024 - 10:11

New Haas F1 car should suit Magnussen better, says boss Komatsu

https://www.motorspo...matsu/10567122/

 

There is a rumour that Ferrari has made major changes to the interior of the suspension, which would also benefit Haas.

https://www.auto-mot...technik-bilder/

 

Bearman is confirmed as a reserve driver and he will take part in six FP1s.

 

I like their low expectations approach. I can't imagine that this season will be worse than 2023 (unless they have made a huge construction error somewhere).


Edited by rocque, 03 February 2024 - 10:15.


#39 RedRabbit

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Posted 03 February 2024 - 20:50

Ugh, why would they make a car that should suit the slower driver?

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#40 Nathan

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Posted 04 February 2024 - 20:40

I think it's more of a case of a car has a major issue that hurts one driver more than the other.  Maybe Hulk could unhappily live with something KMag couldn't.



#41 JL14

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Posted 07 February 2024 - 14:46

Why Steiner doens't believe Haas will get anywhere in the future the way it's operating now

 

“Something needed to change,” Steiner told Autocar.

“I’m not saying that Haas did it wrong. All the other ones did it right. F1 changed from when Haas started to where it went in the past five years. It’s a completely different ball game. They’re all strong teams.

“You just need to open your eyes, if you understand F1, and look at what the other ones do – and Haas isn’t doing it.

“At some stage, you can’t get anywhere with [Haas’s] approach. It’s just not time-representative anymore.”

“Once everybody understood this budget cap, everybody started to invest in the infrastructure to get the best out of the operational budget,” he continued.

“At the moment, if you buy stuff [from external suppliers], it isn’t the best way to do it. You need to invest, not to just spend money but invest money to get money, and Gene didn’t want to do that.

“And again, if he doesn’t want to do it, he’s perfectly right not to do it. I’m not trying to teach him how to do things, because he owns the team.”

“But it’s also having a vision, how to get this done. And I’m not saying buying the Ferrari suspension is wrong. But at least there needs to be a trend to do things better.

“Also, to attract more sponsors, you need to give them more, because everybody is gearing up what they give to sponsors.

“You need to have a story which is aligned with the other nine teams, because I wouldn’t think that the other nine teams are all stupid. If you’re outnumbered nine to one, normally the nine are right.”

 



#42 JimmyClark

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Posted 07 February 2024 - 15:09

Why Steiner doens't believe Haas will get anywhere in the future the way it's operating now

 

I presume he told this to Gene in his usual Steiner way (i.e. unfiltered and with a lot of Fs), and that didn't go down too well, hence his departure. 

 

But he's right. 



#43 BoDarvelle

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Posted 07 February 2024 - 18:49

I recall reading that Sauber makes it's own transmission cases not only because it allows them freedom in suspension design, but it's cheaper than the price F1 mandates Ferrari charge for the part. (It sounded like there was a large difference in cost)

 

Just an example of a part that matches what Steiner is saying.



#44 Secretariat

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Posted 14 February 2024 - 17:19

I guess this year will raise interesting questions for this team. Is the owner standing in the way of true competitiveness, or is the personnel not capable? Steiner has laid it out as he sees it. I am not sure why he was let go, but felt awhile ago new management was needed. We will see how this goes with Komatsu: Is he the leader that Haas needs; or is he just an eventual fall guy for Gene Haas and the team's lack of results? Nevertheless, in a sport/business of tenths of seconds, details matter. Does not help that the team principal's name, on the team's bio page is victim of a typo.



#45 speedx

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Posted 21 February 2024 - 08:25

So Nico says in an interview with AMuS that Steiner was right, that Haas should invest more in the team and infrastructure.

Bad times for Hulkenberg... ;)

#46 Laster

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Posted 21 February 2024 - 08:39

That’s plain for anyone to see, with the notable exception of the person who would have to pay for it.

#47 aportinga

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Posted 21 February 2024 - 14:34

I wonder what the look will be if Haas is way behind Williams - as it pertains to the Andretti decision?

 

I will joyfully look forward to complete failure for Haas to the point that all sponsors jump ship by seasons end and devalue the team to the point where selling to Andretti is the only option.

 

:drunk:


Edited by aportinga, 21 February 2024 - 15:11.


#48 Mark521

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Posted 21 February 2024 - 16:25

Well, they ran quite a few laps today (~144 between them). From my observations, the sector times didn't drop off a cliff during the longer runs but without knowing the fuel loads it's hard to tell.

It's only the first day so it's hard to justify optimism or pessimism but with both cars at the bottom of the time sheets doesn't give me a warm and fuzzy feeling.

Let's see what Nico has to say as he seems to be "less politically correct" in his comments versus Kevin. 



#49 Montie

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Posted 21 February 2024 - 17:28

Apparently Komatsu has said that they are only planning to run heavy fuel loads during the preseason test.

#50 William Hunt

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Posted 21 February 2024 - 17:31

I wonder what the look will be if Haas is way behind Williams - as it pertains to the Andretti decision?

 

I will joyfully look forward to complete failure for Haas to the point that all sponsors jump ship by seasons end and devalue the team to the point where selling to Andretti is the only option.

 

:drunk:

 

Having joy in a team falling in to misery is not nice. We need a competitive Haas too and not Haas selling to Andretti since that means we won't gain a team. What F1 wants is no extra teams and the only way in to buy an existing team at a far inflated price.