837 replies to this topic

[Brian60]

What a boring race, makes me wonder why I woke early to watch it. As for Red Bull, how many more races before they are called out for sandbagging? Since the pre season tests they have been saying they have the 4th best car, yet come the quali they put it on the front row, and finish with a win or good points.

[Ali623]

Brian60, on 06 Apr 2025 - 10:55, said:

What a boring race, makes me wonder why I woke early to watch it. As for Red Bull, how many more races before they are called out for sandbagging? Since the pre season tests they have been saying they have the 4th best car, yet come the quali they put it on the front row, and finish with a win or good points.

Ferrari are clearly 4th best right now, then Red Bull/Mercedes are pretty close, dependant on various factors, with McLaren the clear best. Although ranking Red Bull is always challenging because Max’s teammate is never anywhere near him.

[TomNokoe]

In the Bernie era, and early-Liberty to a degree, it felt like boring races and the reaction to them had a real effect.

However, now I am not sure. For better or worse, F1 has become so much more than the on-track product, that I don't think there will be the same impetuous to shake things up.

[djparky]

that was dull, thankfully I recorded it so could fast forward through most of it

[Fademan]

With the new regs next year will the race be the same or different I wonder? I haven't paid attention to them or what the changes will do to improve overtaking

[ANF]

PayasYouRace, on 06 Apr 2025 - 10:44, said:

Yes and that’s a great illustration of the changes over the years. However, I thought from context it was obvious the question was regarding since F1 started racing there in 1987.

Though must say the pit entrance was before the chicane before 1991 too. There’s a rather famous photo of Senna entering the pits for repairs with Prost looking on from 1989.

https://images.app.g...JQ75gFWpkkXeBaA

Yes, it looks like the pit entry was moved earlier. It was actually there in 1987, as was the shortcut to Dunlop Corner.

Edited by ANF, 06 April 2025 - 11:47.

[JHSingo]

Fademan, on 06 Apr 2025 - 11:39, said:

With the new regs next year will the race be the same or different I wonder? I haven't paid attention to them or what the changes will do to improve overtaking

 

I think it'll revert to being like 2014, where greater differences in engine performance will overtaking easier. 

 

Plus, it'll be interesting to see what effect the movable aero has on cars being able to follow closely. I still think it's a bit of a risk ditching DRS though. 

[1player]

Brian60, on 06 Apr 2025 - 10:55, said:

What a boring race, makes me wonder why I woke early to watch it. As for Red Bull, how many more races before they are called out for sandbagging? Since the pre season tests they have been saying they have the 4th best car, yet come the quali they put it on the front row, and finish with a win or good points.

If Red Bull are sandbagging, all their second drivers are paid actors that drive intentionally 2s slower than Max.

[Goron3]

Fademan, on 06 Apr 2025 - 11:39, said:

With the new regs next year will the race be the same or different I wonder? I haven't paid attention to them or what the changes will do to improve overtaking

The field spread will be much greater so in theory overtaking will be easier. More reliability problems too.

But it'll be down to Pirelli.

[mclara]

Ali623, on 06 Apr 2025 - 11:02, said:

Ferrari are clearly 4th best right now, then Red Bull/Mercedes are pretty close, dependant on various factors, with McLaren the clear best. Although ranking Red Bull is always challenging because Max’s teammate is never anywhere near him.

Mercedes was far from challenging RB at Suzuka

[chrcol]

1player, on 06 Apr 2025 - 12:03, said:

If Red Bull are sandbagging, all their second drivers are paid actors that drive intentionally 2s slower than Max.

Not necessarily, you are assuming the car is equal.

[mclarensmps]

I think we need DRS coming out of Spoon curve in totally dry races at Suzuka .

This was one of the most uneventful races here in a long time

[F1Fan4Ever]

Planetdune, on 06 Apr 2025 - 06:35, said:

I miss the days when cars randomly blew up every few laps.

 

Indeed.  F1 is waaay too reliable.  Cars and drivers no longer push themselves to the absolute limits and beyond.  

[Mc_Silver]

mclarensmps, on 06 Apr 2025 - 12:50, said:

I think we need DRS coming out of Spoon curve in totally dry races at Suzuka .

This was one of the most uneventful races here in a long time

I thought the same today

[Ali_G]

I have to ask, is there such a thing as an unsafe release anymore?

[F1Fan4Ever]

Masterfail, on 06 Apr 2025 - 07:14, said:

Flat Out? Completely the opposite. Almost everyone was maintaining a solid gap just to be sure that they could extend and keep the tires alive. Pirelli is just straight crap and has been for years

 

I totally agree with you.  The most devastating thing to ever happen to F1 was the introduction of Pirelli tires.  A more miserable tire is impossible to conceive of. 

[chrcol]

Something I noticed right at end, last lap, Norris went over the cut through that Sainz kept doing and didnt really lose much from it, starting to feel every time a driver does unforced that it should be a 1 second penalty, rather than 3 times nothing at all, 4th they might give you a warning, and then only 5th time something happens.

Edited by chrcol, 06 April 2025 - 13:11.

[Hellenic tifosi]

chrcol, on 06 Apr 2025 - 13:10, said:

Something I noticed right at end, last lap, Norris went over the cut through that Sainz kept doing and didnt really lose much from it, starting to feel every time a driver does that it should be a 1 second penalty, rather than 3 times nothing at all, 4th they might give you a warning, and then only 5th time something happens.

It's just bad track design. Proper gravel there would ensure that drivers keep it on track.

[Claudius]

Anyway, Hadjar, Bearman and AKA did have a great race.

I also thougth Yuki had a decent race. Just bring it home. He´s not worse than Checo and I think he will only improve.

 

Oscar so far this year seems like a different beast. 

[ANF]

ANF, on 06 Apr 2025 - 10:29, said:

The First Curve and the Second Curve were actually reprofiled in 1985. But of course F1 didn't race at Suzuka until 1987.


The first two corners were pulled inwards to increase visibility and run-off areas.

...


This is what the circuit looked like in 1981. Green light at 3:25!

I edited the post and added this old video that I found among my bookmarks. Great view of old Suzuka.

[Goron3]

Hellenic tifosi, on 06 Apr 2025 - 13:11, said:

It's just bad track design. Proper gravel there would ensure that drivers keep it on track.

There are so many chicanes on the calendar that would benefit from gravel. Abu Dhabi T5/6, Monza second chicane, Monaco and Hungary to name a few.

[Ferrim]

So far, this season is looking like a weird replay of 1995. The best car has two closely matched drivers, but the team struggles to deliver clean weekends. The defending World Champion, a generational talent, keeps getting results he shouldn't, with his teammate years light behind him.

[Celloman]

mclarensmps, on 06 Apr 2025 - 12:50, said:

I think we need DRS coming out of Spoon curve in totally dry races at Suzuka .

This was one of the most uneventful races here in a long time

Yep. I think the conclusion is clear that DRS is still very much needed and one DRS zone is not enough, especially when the main straight is not that long and leads into a high-speed corner entry. Melbourne had four DRS zones, which clearly allowed drivers to follow and overtake on a track that also has quite a few high-speed corners after the changes to the layout.

[jcbc3]

ANF, on 06 Apr 2025 - 10:29, said:

 

This is what the circuit looked like in 1981. Green light at 3:25!

 

Start at 6.02 for fun at the 130R 

[Anja]

Ferrim, on 06 Apr 2025 - 13:36, said:

So far, this season is looking like a weird replay of 1995. The best car has two closely matched drivers, but the team struggles to deliver clean weekends. The defending World Champion, a generational talent, keeps getting results he shouldn't, with his teammate years light behind him.

 

So you're saying Red Bull was cheating last year? 

[MasterOfCoin]

djparky, on 06 Apr 2025 - 11:39, said:

that was dull, thankfully I recorded it so could fast forward through most of it

Suzuka and Spa has to be the most overrated tracks, the races are dull as hell..... 

[cpbell]

These cars are so crap they've turned Suzuka into Monaco.

[Muzzyf1]

The biggest highlight was the brain fade of Norris exiting the pits and Max saying he drove himself off the track lol

[Bliman]

MasterOfCoin, on 06 Apr 2025 - 14:44, said:

Suzuka and Spa has to be the most overrated tracks, the races are dull as hell.....

I don't think those tracks are the problem. These are some of the best tracks in the world.We have other problems.

[MasterOfCoin]

Bliman, on 06 Apr 2025 - 14:52, said:

I don't think those tracks are the problem. These are some of the best tracks in the world.We have other problems.

Visually yes, but i've seen better races at Silverstone, Hungary and Canada even with these crappy cars...

[Afterburner]

Yeahhhhhh BABY!!!

[shotcaller]

Monaco in Japan.

[F1Fan4Ever]

cpbell, on 06 Apr 2025 - 14:45, said:

These cars are so crap they've turned Suzuka into Monaco.

 

Agreed.  These F1 cars are simply awful.  This sport has not shot itself in the foot. No, it's aimed a lot higher and hit the mark.  

[Hellenic tifosi]

There was never any meaningful overtaking at Suzuka, with a few really notable exceptions though. IMHO softer tyres and a reprofiling of 130R could help this.

However, in any case this track remains brilliant. We don't need 15 Bahrains in the calendar. Having a few venues in which overtaking is tough is a feature, not a bug

Edited by Hellenic tifosi, 06 April 2025 - 15:14.

[cpbell]

Hellenic tifosi, on 06 Apr 2025 - 15:14, said:

There was never any meaningful overtaking at Suzuka, with a few really notable exceptions though. IMHO softer tyres and a reprofiling of 130R could help this.

However, in any case this track remains brilliant. We don't need 15 Bahrains in the calendar. Having a few venues in which overtaking is tough is a feature, not a bug

It's never been the best, but it was better in the past.

[Bliman]

MasterOfCoin, on 06 Apr 2025 - 14:58, said:

Visually yes, but i've seen better races at Silverstone, Hungary and Canada even with these crappy cars...

Yeah but I think those tracks aren't the problem. These cars and formula doesn't work there anymore.

[Bloggsworth]

Full blown Wham! - "Wake Me Up Before You Go Go..."

[Sterzo]

Yesterday I was at Brands Hatch for a club race meeting. Two of the races had fields of 33 and 34 cars (on a 2km circuit!). They featured three and four car battles throughout the field and were terrific fun.

 

Today I watched the TV highlights of the Japanese Grand Prix, also on a fabulous circuit. It was close and tense at the front right until the end, and I enjoyed it. Sometimes those pursuits which never quite produce the expected pass can be fulfilling to watch. That's motor racing.

[cjm321190]

Sterzo, on 06 Apr 2025 - 15:41, said:

Yesterday I was at Brands Hatch for a club race meeting. Two of the races had fields of 33 and 34 cars (on a 2km circuit!). They featured three and four car battles throughout the field and were terrific fun.

Today I watched the TV highlights of the Japanese Grand Prix, also on a fabulous circuit. It was close and tense at the front right until the end, and I enjoyed it. Sometimes those pursuits which never quite produce the expected pass can be fulfilling to watch. That's motor racing.

Think 2006 Imola Michael Schumacher chasing Alonso. DRS would have killed it.


In fact Hakkinen on Schumacher spa classic or Japan 2005 mixed grid both ruined if with DRS.

Sometimes like you say the chase makes the pass.

[ensign14]

Ali_G, on 06 Apr 2025 - 13:02, said:

I have to ask, is there such a thing as an unsafe release anymore?

Once had a dodgy mutton phal.

[Jellyfishcake]

I think the issue the race had today, was that whilst Verstappen Norris and Piastri were within a few seconds for pretty much the whole race, it never felt like a realistic prospect we'd even get an on track attempt for an overtake.

At no moment did Verstappen seem like he was in danger etc

[TomNokoe]

Jellyfishcake, on 06 Apr 2025 - 15:59, said:

I think the issue the race had today, was that whilst Verstappen Norris and Piastri were within a few seconds for pretty much the whole race, it never felt like a realistic prospect we'd even get an on track attempt for an overtake.
At no moment did Verstappen seem like he was in danger etc

Yes, this is a core issue. There is very little tension or anticipation.

[rodlamas]

20 cars finished
19 on the same lap
Top ten only 7th and 8th inverted from Qual
One stop strategy with no variation.

Those are all consequences

Causes

1) 4 year freeze on PUs. There is no more differentiation and they are rock reliable.

2) Cost cap makes risks very expensive. Williams will pay for years the 2024 bill (remember that Colapinto managed to crash more than Sargeant in 9 races versus 15).

3) Downforce is generated by floor and not wings, so wings DF/Drag levels are lower, so DRS is less effective.

4) Cars are now the fastest in F1 history (all track records are being broken) with 54kgs more than in 2020 and no engine party modes. Dirty air is a mess.

5) Tracks are being resurfaced which is a dream to Pirelli current tires. There is no graining and no thermal deg.

6) Pirelli wants to race 24 races on 5-6 compounds of tires. Teams use more rear and front wing specs than that.

It is all wrong. It will be a bore fest the whole season.

Hope that the 40 degrees predicted for Bahrain make something out of it.

[PayasYouRace]

ANF, on 06 Apr 2025 - 13:32, said:

I edited the post and added this old video that I found among my bookmarks. Great view of old Suzuka.

Wonderful old video. Great to see what the track looked like before F1 came along.

 

Plus, always a treat to see a field full of identical shitboxes being raced as if it was the biggest thing in motorsport.

[Leibowitz]

The tyre compound difference is too small. Hamilton was posting the same lap times as Antonelli on a softer compound. This would never have happened during the Pirelli tyre lottery era. There’s no incentive to pit for a fresh set of softer tyres when all you get is 0.3 seconds per lap at most.

[P123]

Leibowitz, on 06 Apr 2025 - 18:13, said:

The tyre compound difference is too small. Hamilton was posting the same lap times as Antonelli on a softer compound. This would never have happened during the Pirelli tyre lottery era. There’s no incentive to pit for a fresh set of softer tyres when all you get is 0.3 seconds per lap at most.

 

I think this has been a Pirelli issue for a number of years now with no notable pace difference between raceday compounds.  We often also hear about concerns regarding tyre wear, and come the race they could go for a trip around the world.

[Gravelngrass]

F1Fan4Ever, on 06 Apr 2025 - 12:53, said:

Indeed. F1 is waaay too reliable. Cars and drivers no longer push themselves to the absolute limits and beyond.

That’s why we have so many races these years. Because they are not that special…

[Gravelngrass]

Muzzyf1, on 06 Apr 2025 - 14:48, said:

The biggest highlight was the brain fade of Norris exiting the pits and Max saying he drove himself off the track lol

Yep, Norris going full footballer there..

[KWSN - DSM]

JJEAST10, on 06 Apr 2025 - 10:44, said:

Been a hard-core F1 fan since 1997 and attended my first race today. What a rubbish race that was. I was waiting for something to happen and all of a sudden, the race was over.

But I must also say what an experience!!!!! Seeing them live gives you so much more thrill than in person. I was sitting high up in turn 1 and as they disappeared through turn 5 only to reappear for a half second through turn 7 just gave me goosebumps every time.

 

Congratulations on being at your first race, as a fan and regardless of how many years you have been one, being there in person is something quite different and for all fans something they should try to experience at least once.

[Gravelngrass]

TomNokoe, on 06 Apr 2025 - 11:25, said:

In the Bernie era, and early-Liberty to a degree, it felt like boring races and the reaction to them had a real effect.

However, now I am not sure. For better or worse, F1 has become so much more than the on-track product, that I don't think there will be the same impetuous to shake things up.

Depends on who the majority of F1 audience is these days or who it’s predicted to be in the future. If for example, it’s the DTS generation, they probably don’t watch entire races anyway due to the short attention span, so maybe more scripted stuff or fake controversies on social media would be enough to keep the sport alive (heck, they already tried to create a fake Ferrari story in China). Add some celebrity tie-ins or collaborations, a driver getting out of the closet and any type of scandal and you don’t even need to worry about fixing the racing…