79 replies to this topic

[Nikolas Garth]

Quote

Originally posted by kanec


Just noticed this. I was so close at my guess 20-100-100-12 (CMYK). Missed it by that much! Oh well the filter applied to it I think has toned it down a fraction, so close enough.

So are you saying you altered the actually colour of that photo????

The reason I ask is, at the Aus 2001 GP, in the flesh, that is the colour of what the Ferrari's looked like to me.

[bira]

I told you - take off those glasses!

Here's the original picuture kanec used: http://www.atlasf1.c...image/MSC02_780

[T4E]

Bira: You should maybe notice that everybody is looking the colours on monitors where the colour is formed from combination of red, green and blue (the colours which can construct all the colours of LIGHT) but you are giving the colours of picture or paint which can form all the colours of a REFLECTED LIGHT.

So when everybody has a slightly different setups in their monitors, everybody is seeing the colours a bit differently.

Actually the different between colour of light and reflected colours is one of the challenges in graphical work environments (how to get the same colours on printed image than is on the monitor the image is designed).

[kanec]

Quote

Originally posted by Nikolas Garth
So are you saying you altered the actually colour of that photo????

The reason I ask is, at the Aus 2001 GP, in the flesh, that is the colour of what the Ferrari's looked like to me.

Nikolas,

Out of interest, do you see the colour variation between Schumachers helmet (which is the original red) to the car? You may need to go to the big version to see it better. From your recollection, which red looks closer to seeing it in the flesh?

[LMG]

Quote

Originally posted by bira
I told you - take off those glasses!

Yes I got it! Business Plan of a lifetime!
Selling Rosso Corsa tinted shades at the GP's... All fans happy and I'll make millions
Don't tell anyone...

[Oho]

Quote

Originally posted by bira

By the way, if I'm not wrong, the red Ferrari colour is called testa rosa and not 'rosso corsa'

Ave !!

Doubt it, "Testa Ros(s)a" translates to "Red Head" and refers to red painted valve covers (excuse the lack of propper terms) of the original Testa Rossa (nick name) of the fifties I believe.

- Oho -

[smallgod]

Quote

Originally posted by T4E
Bira: You should maybe notice that everybody is looking the colours on monitors where the colour is formed from combination of red, green and blue (the colours which can construct all the colours of LIGHT) but you are giving the colours of picture or paint which can form all the colours of a REFLECTED LIGHT.

So when everybody has a slightly different setups in their monitors, everybody is seeing the colours a bit differently.

Actually the different between colour of light and reflected colours is one of the challenges in graphical work environments (how to get the same colours on printed image than is on the monitor the image is designed).

Absolutely correct.
In fact CMYK cannot recreate the full range of visible light, so to reference a visual colour in CMYK values is not really accurate. Only printed work should be reffered to in CMYK.

A colour on a car has more of a pigment or not - and they aren't using CMYK to do it...

[Megatron]

Marlboro decals appeared on Ferrari driver's helmets and uniforms as early as 1970. In 1984, Ferrari were allowed small decals on the side of the tub and the nose in exchange for paying the driver's salarys. The drivers also got a more "McLaren" style Marlboro helmet with the Marlboro written around the crown as well as on the forhead and chin.

In 1993, Ferrari allowed Marlboro to more/less become "principle" sponsor, with Marlboro replacing the usual Goodyear black rear wing. In a seemingly unreleated note, Ferrari also ran a one off white airbox, remembering the days of Lauda in the mid 70s I suppose.

In 1997, Marlboro decided to end its long standing partnership with McLaren and become the primary sponsor for Ferrari. The F310B was supposedly going to carry a McLaren style paint job before being vetoed by Ferrari. In return, that grand old cig from the states got its light red/orange paint scheme and the team changed its name from Scuderia Ferrari to Scuderia Ferrari Marlboro.

The team also changed from having yellow or red uniforms bearing the name of the fuel maker into becoming more Marlboro.

Of course, it is a big misconception that all Ferrari's up till then were scarlet red. I am reminded of a few examples, like when John Surtees won the 64 championship in Mexico, the car ran in American blue and white, as the team was ran by NART, North American Racing Team, a Ferrari influenced group that also gave Ferrari their final overall win at Le Mans a year later. Of course, there was also the proposed Rob Walker Racing Ferrari skarnose 156 (?) that was to run in 1962 for Moss, but that never came to be. Pity, as the car (which was actually an outdated chassis fitted with a heavily modified engine, per Mr. Ferrari's orders) would have looked cool.

[Nikolas Garth]

Quote

Originally posted by kanec
Nikolas,

Out of interest, do you see the colour variation between Schumachers helmet (which is the original red) to the car? You may need to go to the big version to see it better. From your recollection, which red looks closer to seeing it in the flesh?

In looking at the big pic, there is a notable difference for sure between the colour of Schumi's helmut and the car. At the 2001 Oz GP, the cars in the flesh look pretty much exactly as the colour you have selected for the car in this pic.

Schumi's helmut does look orange, and I have the dim recollection of remembering that his helmut colour was quite different to the car he drove in the 2001 Aust. GP.

[Gemini]

Marlboro may be one of the reasons why they paints their cars in lighter shade of red now. The other reasons is that the light shades look better on TV and they better support sponsors decals... Ferrari is not the only team that did it. Jaguar painst its car in lighter green that first launch green which was supposed to be the succesor of traditional "british racing green"

Also Jordan who use to be dark gold, perfectly matching the pack of Benson & Hedges went to bright yellow for TV reasons, despite its now far from sponsors brand colours...


On a side note: someone said that a bright colours, especially light red of Ferrari is best visible in backmarkers rear mirrors... which translates in less time lost behind them As I am Ferrari fan that's enough of the reasons for me to accept any colour that helps them win...

[kanec]

Quote

Originally posted by T4E
Bira: You should maybe notice that everybody is looking the colours on monitors where the colour is formed from combination of red, green and blue (the colours which can construct all the colours of LIGHT) but you are giving the colours of picture or paint which can form all the colours of a REFLECTED LIGHT.

So when everybody has a slightly different setups in their monitors, everybody is seeing the colours a bit differently.

Actually the different between colour of light and reflected colours is one of the challenges in graphical work environments (how to get the same colours on printed image than is on the monitor the image is designed).

T4E,

All very true, but this is an interpretation that was never meant for print. The CMYK colours where given over as a guide only and I thought it was would to be interesting to mention them. You are right I shouldn't have.

The differences experienced across systems would be caused by a few things. Computers as you pointed out deal in RGB values. The image is a JPEG so it deals actually in YCbCr and calculates back to RGB. From my understanding, the video card will play a role in this interpretation, so different video card=different interpretation. JPEG essentially plays a little trick to the eye in removing detail to reduce the file size, so individuals perception is a big thing there as well. Finally, RGB is all about light emission (additive color mixing) and all monitors will be different based on illumination, which takes into account the monitors colour temperature, brightness, contrast. This all comes down to how white is white on your monitor?

The red colour I used on the dr-ed image was based off the 1994 image posted earlier by Bira. I used this one because I could get a white, yellow and black that was a very close match (the best one I could find) to the one used on the F2002 image.

Cheers

Kane

P.S. Maybe someone can 2-bob a F2002 at a race this year and send me the coin.

[smallgod]

Quote

Originally posted by Nikolas Garth
In looking at the big pic, there is a notable difference for sure between the colour of Schumi's helmut and the car. At the 2001 Oz GP, the cars in the flesh look pretty much exactly as the colour you have selected for the car in this pic.

Schumi's helmut does look orange, and I have the dim recollection of remembering that his helmut colour was quite different to the car he drove in the 2001 Aust. GP.

Shell have had a couple of F1-2000 cars touring around here for promo purposes and I'd ssssay they were lighter than the adjusted pic but 'redder' than the helmet. :

Not sure if they'd been painted in a different colour to avoid scaring the fans, though

Incidentally any white-based substrate (canvas, photographic paper, newsprint) renders highlights in red as a pinkish hue, highlights on a red object in visible light do not do this. Reds are the worst colours for this discrepancy.

[Peter]

It all seems very obvious to me!

When Jaguar were trying to get their colour right they found that the particular shade of "British Racing Green" they wanted to use was a heavy paint (by several pounds on the whole car, I believe), so they went for a lighter paint.

Obviously the Marlboro red is a "lighter" red than the Ferrari red - problem solved!

[Pascal]

Quote

Originally posted by Megatron
In 1984, Ferrari were allowed small decals on the side of the tub and the nose in exchange for paying the driver's salarys.

The year is 1985, and it is almost a challenge to find the Marlboro sticker accomodating the name of the driver:




And one year later, the sticker is equally discreet...

[Megatron]

The year was indeed 1984, not 1985, that the sponsorship on the car itself began. In 1990, the Marlboro logos got bigger, proabably because Marlboro wanted to keep its long association with Prost firing on all cylinders. In 1994, the Marlboro written in a chevron sign was cut out and the white words "Marlboro" filled the engine cover, and it stayed like that until 1997.

http://www.forix.com...13027_hhul_.jpg

http://www.forix.com...14027_sibo_.jpg

[aportinga]

I have a great idea!

Why doesn't another team take the former color so that when in 2007 when the tobacco legislation kicks in Ferrari is screwed...they'll have to keep the craptacular Marlboro red they have now!

Maybe that will teach them to screw with tradition!

[Jdcasas]

thank you wasnt expecting so many replies....

leturc

[MarkWRX]

When I attended my first Grand Prix, the Inagural US Grand Prix at Long Beach (75, 76?) I had a paddock pass. The paddock was a large arena and you could walk around and get close to the cars and team members.

I recall my surprise at seeing the McLaren's look so orange red, instead of the deep red I had seen in magazine photographs and on TV. At one point, late in the afternoon after practice I think, I said to my friends "wow, that is really orange!" and someone from the other side of the barricade said "yes, in person it is, but on TV, it looks Marlboro red."

I shot a bunch of slide film, mostly Kodachrome and Ektachrome and there is even a distinct difference in the how the different film's recorded the color. The Kodachrome, of course, makes it a darker red. The Ektachrome recorded the more orange tint to it.

So, I think the shift in the color composition of "Ferrari Red" can be tied to the prevalence of Marlboro's advertising and the fine tuning of the colors so that they show well on TV. Of course, I could be totally wrong....

Mark

[Scudetto]

Quote

Originally posted by bira
Actually I think testa rosa is a name of a model or something - not sure.

In Italian,

Testa = Head (as in the red engine cam covers)
Rosa = Red

In similar vein, the American Football quarterback, Vinnie Testaverde, translates into "Vinnie Green Head."

[Foxbat]

Quote

Originally posted by aportinga
I have a great idea!

Why doesn't another team take the former color so that when in 2007 when the tobacco legislation kicks in Ferrari is screwed...they'll have to keep the craptacular Marlboro red they have now!

Maybe that will teach them to screw with tradition!

Red is the italian race color, so why not two red teams: Minardi and Ferrari (now that would be something!).


[EDIT] Isn't red the Vodafone color too?

[Scudetto]

Quote

Originally posted by Foxbat


Red is the italian race color, so why not two red teams: Minardi and Ferrari (now that would be something!).

I'd love a turn to racing in national colors, but corporate sponsorship largely prohibits that - which is probably why we'll never see red Minardis. However, those pics from the Mindari launch do show Stoddart and Webber in Black/Red team shirts.

[Pascal]

Quote

Originally posted by Megatron
The year was indeed 1984, not 1985, that the sponsorship on the car itself began.

I never suggested otherwise.

I just happened to have personal pictures of the following year...

[KinetiK]

Quote

Originally posted by Nikolas Garth
That is a beautiful shade of red. Is there anyone who doesn't like the red in this pic?

I'm sprouting wood to be perfectly honest.

[Scudetto]

Quote

Originally posted by KinetiK
I'm sprouting wood to be perfectly honest.

Thank you for sharing that with us. :

[smallgod]

While we're at it, can we whip that stupid toilet seat off the side and put the old, smaller Marlboro from last year back.

[LMG]

Quote

Originally posted by Pascal

Goodyear
Wet or Intermediates???

[Robbie]

Quote

Originally posted by bira
The change was made when Marlboro became primary sponsor of Ferrari, in 1997 (as mentioned in this thread before). It was made to meet Marlboro's colours. They were, after all, giving Ferrari more than any other sponsor in F1 has done before (and still are the largest 1 single paying sponsor).

By the way, if I'm not wrong, the red Ferrari colour is called testa rosa and not 'rosso corsa'

I'm a non-smoker and don't pay much attention to cigarette packaging, but the 'orange red' doesn't seem like Marlboro reader either?

[Megatron]

Quote

Originally posted by Pascal


The year is 1985, and it is almost a challenge to find the Marlboro sticker accomodating the name of the driver:




And one year later, the sticker is equally discreet...

You said 85 there. I thought you meant it started in 85. Sorry.

[X-ray]

I dont know about '00 but last year the paintjob is definitly different from the first "Marlboro" red of '97.

The reason some of you say its orange in flesh, some say as dark as pre '97, is that the colour changes by the amount of light and direction of the light!

This can also be seen on TV, on a cloudy day vs a bright sunny day.

As pointed out already, the colour in pictures depends on the film used and development. Plus, the fact that red is the hardest colour to develope.

And yes, Schuey's helmet uses a different paint then the car, its brighter "neon" red. I prefer the old helmet with a blue visir, notebly used by Schuey in Imola '00

And i prefer this Ferrari colour much more than the static "Ferrari" red.

[X-ray]

The new paint was used in 2000 as well.