1205 replies to this topic

[Pascal]

I am shell-shocked!

I really feel sick thinking about the loss of life today. I followed the whole thing on the internet this afternoon, and I just saw the footage of the tragedy from home. This is a sad day for humanity, and an even sadder day for the United States of America and its citizens. My thoughts are with them.

[Pascal]

French TV reported that an England-based Arabic journalist had met Bin Laden a few weeks ago, and the latter had declared that the US were about to suffer a major blow. If confirmed, this report would clearly finger the Saudi madman.

[Pascal]

BK, you can bet that 99% of the world's muslims are just as horrified as you are...

[Pascal]

Boston Killer, I'm sorry to tell you that in such a blunt manner, but this is truly moronic to turn this thread into a hatred festival. You may have misconceptions about Islam, and that's not a crime, but you should understand that such a blanket statement is ignorant, to put it mildly.

Many people died today, and among them people from all religions. At a time when even President Khatami from Iran condemns harshly such a horrible act, it is unfair to try to blame a whole religious current for this tragedy!

[Pascal]

For the record, I find Thanassis' post highly ignorant, and quite a bit offensive given the circumstances.

But I won't let this thread become some sort of hate repository. There are many ways to shoot down in flame such a post, but publicly wishing ill on one poster or his family is not a valid way to do it.

[bira]

I can't access ANY news website, and I only have Italian tv channels here, so I can see the pictures but not understand fully what they are saying. This thread's the only news feed I have so please keep it coming

[bira]

I just saw on tv, live, the North Tower collaposing. That is one image I don't think I'll ever forget.

50,000 people work at the world trade center...

[bira]

and I just heard a car bomb has exploded in the states department!!!

[bira]

1) why are people saying this is "almost war"? Armed forces with weapons drawn, bombs hitting off and hundreds if not thousands of people killed, more so injured, all in an act of hate-violence. That IS war.

2) This is very much the style of the Islamic Jihad. These are radical terrorists - please do NOT tag the blame to the entire arab or Palestinian people.

3) I can relate to everyone here who is emotional, edgy, even hysteric - I know I am (a lot of people I know are working there, and a lot others are in clear danger.) Nevertheless, PLEASE DO NOT POST HYSTERICAL POSTS, and PLEASE DO NOT ATTACK EACH OTHER.

I would like to participate in this 'vigil-like' news thread with you all, and ebb my concerns alongside you all. Please don't give me admin work on top of this.

[bira]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
The coverage of this in america is astounding. I know its a massive event, but to see the world trade center collapse on ESPN and VH1 is simply mind blowing

Ross it's even more mind blowing when you think that I am in a hotel in Itlay, and EVERY SINGLE CHANNEL here has dropped all other programs and are covering this live. I know the same is in Israel. I doubt there are many countries who aren't right now covering this and only this. This is such a huge thing, it will affect everyone, not just those hit directly.

I know Israel and the Palestinians are now both in a state of panic from what will happen hereon, for different reasons of course. But nonetheless, this is certainly has taken everyone into the mode of 'worst case scenario'

[bira]

UA 175 has been just confirmed to also have crashed...

[bira]

Confirmed: 4 planes crashed thus far. Two hit the WTC within 18 minutes of each other; one crashed next to the Pentagon and one near Pittsburg

[bira]

Originally posted by Smooth
Why is it that Bin Laden and Hussain are even still drawing breath? The US should have knocked them both out. If Bin Laden is responsible for this, after his other mass-murders, many in power should have many questions to answer.

I don't think either of these men are responsible for this and, as odd as it may sound, these two are not the Western World's worst fear. Killing them would only make the threat bigger because they are moderate compared to those who could come in their place.

[bira]

RedFever - good to see you here.

I agree with you completely - this is organised terrorism. And I am really more and more convinced that this is the work of one of the fractions in the Islamic Jihad. This has been for years the most orgasined, best financed and thus dangerous organisation. What astonishes me is that they do things in the name of the Palesitinian's cause, yet I am 100% sure no single Palestinian in the Occupied Territories will condone this.

[bira]

Originally posted by Rob G
****ing brilliant. The NBC newsguy on site at the Pentagon said that "the plane hit on the wrong side", because the Office of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and other important offices are there. Really responsible journalism.

I'll take the stance of protecting the media in these hard hours


Rob G - you can imagine he didn't express disappointment but rather convey information of how the impact, politically, has been lessened by the fact that the plane hit the "wrong" side. You don't have quotation marks or smilies on TV, after all.

Spare a thought for these reporters - most of them are reporting in an area where they themselves live and work. They need to report live one of the biggest tragedies in the country's history and they need to do it with little information available. And I think we are all thankful to have as much info and pictures right now as possible, are we not? So let's not attack them right now - none of us would want to be in their place right now

[bira]

tifoso, be it from me to defend anyone but really, the Palestinian nation has more than 2 million people living in these terriroties. I am disappointed to hear some are happy about this but I want to believe that they are a very small fraction.

Maybe I am naive, but I really do believe that these attacks and the joyous reactions reported really represent only a small fraction

[bira]

Exactly because this is a HUGE organisational attack, with a lot of logistics, money and people involved, that this is a very big intelligence failure for the USA forces. It's the small attacks that you cannot prevent. The big ones SHOULD have previous information if your intelligence forces do their job well. Sorry, bad time to throw blame and I'm certainly not blaming the USA, but there is no denying there was a certain ****up here intelligence wise.

[bira]

Bin Laden and other 'officials' from his organisation issued several denials that they are involved. I think these people would take responsibility because otherwise they are not serving their cause. Part of the cause is to say 'we hurt you bad'. They wouldn't deny it if it was them.

[bira]

People from here I am worried about (still haven't posted I think):

GrayCat, Mila, Jackman, Cece and Ivan

Sorry if I forgot anyone. These are the posters I remember that are from NY (Ivan from DC).

[bira]

Jackman glad to see you here.

Call your parents right now! They are either worried sick or oblivious. Either way, they'd want to hear from you asap.

[bira]

flightexplorer.com released tapes of radar showing the paths these hijacked planes took. Also, CNN just said the ground controls have tapes of the pilots. We may just find out in a few - days or hours - what exactly happened there

[bira]

I know there's a large HSBC offices building off Church street (there's a hotel nearby I stay at a lot). I *think* it's about 2 or so miles off WTC

[bira]

Originally posted by Smooth


Is $24 billion enough to bug the homes of every person on earth? Funny you critisize others for jumping the gun without having all the info, yet you prove yourself to be no better.

Without knowing who did this, how can it be said it was preventable?

Sorry smooth, I agree with the criticism. That is a collosal intelligence failure. As I said before, this was a very meticulous and very big organisational attack. With so many parameters involved, and quite a few people, the US Intelligence should have had some perliminary information. This attack took them COMPLETELY by surprise. It's a big **** up any which way you look at it.

[bira]

Mos what I found interesting - and I am by no means an expert on this - is that the first impact seemed to have limited damage to the building and it looked as though the second plane deliberately tried to increase the impact by hitting the building lower and more to the side, rather than high up and in the middle as the first one did.

I'm sure Iam Pei - the WTC designer and a brilliant engineer/architect - couldn't have done anything whatsoever to prevent such an attack. He had an accidental plane hitting in mind - not a deliberate duel attack

[bira]

TheDestroyer, Jeffry Beaty is hardly an asshole - he actually knows quite a lot on terrorism and had some good successes in the past that you don't know about... What he meant in his 'High Concept, Low Tech' remark was that this was a very advanced attack with a very high knowledge. This isn't some rural ignorant fool who was convinced to become a walking timebomb so he can go to heaven and get 70 virgins.

He said something, for example, which answers our question Mosquito - he says the WTC was built to withstand the impact of a Boeing 707 which probably was the largest of it's kind back then, dunno. In any event, these terrorists knew it and selected deliberately the 757 and 767 which are far bigger planes.

[bira]

Originally posted by Ross Stonefeld
Im beginning to wonder how hard this was to organise. I can get flight schedules several months in advance. It wouldnt be hard for me to find 4 planes, it wouldnt be hard for me to get people into the country. I could get weapons on board. Just use a large ceramic knife. It takes some organisation, but it doesnt really seem that difficult

I think that such an orchastrated attack needs primarily meticulous and lengthy planning, because too many things can go wrong. One person caught can jeopardise the entire operation. To co-ordinate this is absolutely mind boggling. No, I don't think this is easy at all

[bira]

Did you guys just see CNN? Amazing

Barbara Olson, who was killed on one of these flights, had talked to her husband Ted Olson (the Attorney General or something) and she told him all the passangers and crew INCLUDING THE PILOTS were assembled at the end of the plane. The hijacker's only weapons were regular knives and cardboard cutters. Amazing. Simply amazing.

[bira]

Originally posted by Sammyed
Israeli´prime minister speaking right now...

*yawn*

[bira]

Originally posted by Boston Killer
Sharon knows a thing or two about terrorism

Not least of all, how to instigate it

But, I digress. I'll leave Israeli politics out of this

[bira]

Originally posted by J
Jetliner travels about four miles per minute even on those altitudes as used in this attack. Vectoring routes for Newark/LaGuardia/JFK are so close to manhattan that there were no way to prevent what happened.

There may be a possibility that the Philidephia crew hear about the fate of others, for example thru´ company frequence and tried at least to put it down somewhere, where the casualtieis would stay at minimum.

J

The current speculations I hear in the reports is that the pilot of that flight realized what is about to happen and crashed the plane by himself where there are not civilians.

To me, if this turns to be true, that's the essense of heroism

[bira]

I'm going offline. A big thank you for everyone for keeping me updated throughout this day. I hope the worst is behind us.

[Pit Babe]

This is so ****ing frightening, and I'm not even within 500 miles of it. A colleague brought in a portable TV to keep up on the events as they happen. It is not very often that a mere photo makes me cry - no matter what it is of.

I am crying.

I was supposed to fly to Europe for two weeks starting tomorrow night. I wanted to leave today. Thank God I didn't.

Anyone who is near the attack sites - keep safe.

[Pit Babe]

Originally posted by tifoso
Just heard that all U.S. flights are grounded until at least tomorrow noon.

I heard this only applies to domestic flights (within US). International travel is likely still on hold indefinitely.

[Pit Babe]

Originally posted by John B
My best friend is scheduled to fly next week and already has contemplated cancelling his trip.

I must say I understand this. I was scheduled to fly to Europe tomorrow and it's obvious I won't be able to. Even after the moratorium on flight is lifted, I'm thinking I'll delay my departure for a while afterwards. I don't know how long.

Forgive me for rambling - my head's not screwed on straight right now.

[Pit Babe]

Originally posted by John B
I brought my TV in here this morning and there are a number of people who have come in several times in a stunned way.

Yeah, someone did that here as well. I have refused to watch. What I see on the Web is horrifying enough.

Originally posted by TheDestroyer
let's not forget that these were all domestic flights that were hijacked. security on domestic flights is far more lax than international flights - this will change.

I understand, and I appreciate your bringing this good point up. I cannot speak for everyone, but many people have to take domestic flights in order to connect with international ones, myself included. When I do, I go through security once in the podunk one-runway airport I fly out of locally and that's it. So as far as security on international flights being more stringent, all I can say is "not always."

I don't mean to belittle the experiences of those closer to the devastation than I am by grinding about my personal travel plight. Like I said, I am rambling. I am shocked by this event, by what I have seen and read. Utterly shocked.

[Pit Babe]

Bee, I'm glad you got through to your friends and family in the affected areas. It is often scarier not to know how they are.

[Pit Babe]

Nothing that interesting, I'm afraid. And my relative silence does not mean I wasn't here...I'm glad you're all right, by the way.

[Pit Babe]

Don, be safe. I have thought of you many times today. I'm sorry if that sounds trite but it's the truth.

[Pit Babe]

Originally posted by maxpapis
I found this interesting.
Amazon.com has changed their front page to a place where you can donate money to the Red Cross.
It's a nice change of scenery to see a business forgoing profits to help others.

X10.com, purveyors of tiny wireless cameras whose ubiquitous popup ads plague me on a number of sites I visit, has apparently replaced all its popups with the following: http://ads.x10.com/all/suspend.htm

I'm sure there are many others following suit as well.

[Pit Babe]

Originally posted by 312 PB
I can tell you that tensions are high in California. Many believe that an attack is on the way once the flights resume here. I can only pray that these views are wrong.

My father shares that belief; he, my mother and sister all live in California. I'm hoping these opinions are incorrect as well, but at the moment I can't honestly rule it out.

[Pit Babe]

Skeeter: re American Red Cross donations

Directly - try http://www.redcross....ate/donate.html

Found this on Yahoo! - might also be worth a shot
http://paydirect.yah...ssMoney-drv.pd/

[Pit Babe]

Skeeter, what were your options?? You felt the need to do something and you did it. Pat yourself on the back

My parents wanted to give blood but since they just did so on 22 July they can't again until 22 September How frustrating is that???

[130R]

RedFever - I couldn't agree with you more.

On sucha dark day in history it is good to see folks like bira espouse a rational and calming voice. I'm like Smooth -- I want blood. but it is kneejerk and unfortunately would never lead to true justice, but likely just more death.

It smells like Islamic Jihad.

[Andy]

Two aircraft, 18 minutes apart, 1 into each tower. Definately terrorists bringing their trade to North America. Let's hope Bush Jr. retaliates quick & hard like his father would have!!!

[Andy]

Reports now of smoke at the Pentagon in Washington

[Andy]

Both planes highjacked in Boston, appearantly a 3rd highjacked plane appearantly in the air!!!
Possibly a plane which hit the Pentagon.

[Andy]

Anyone have a news website that you can actually access right now??

THIS IS WAR, MAY THE BASTARDS RESPONSIBLE PAY DEARLY WITH THEIR LIVES AND THE LIVES OF THEIR LOVED ONES!!!

[Andy]

Montreal - Riot police are in the streets to keep the calm. CIBC Tower in downtown Montreal (which houses Israeli Consulate) evacuated.

[Damop]

****ing TERRORISTS. Selfish pricks. There is going to be a massive retaliation on this one.

[Damop]

This is shocking and sad. The loss of life must be tremendous.