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Let Scott by?


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Poll: Let Scott by? (58 member(s) have cast votes)

  1. Screw Scott (10 votes [17.24%])

    Percentage of vote: 17.24%

  2. You can't blame Pete for wanting to race (20 votes [34.48%])

    Percentage of vote: 34.48%

  3. Have you ever had Ouzo?? (12 votes [20.69%])

    Percentage of vote: 20.69%

  4. My dear, I have had everything! (16 votes [27.59%])

    Percentage of vote: 27.59%

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#1 Keir

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 00:37

Do you think that Pete Aron should have let Scott Stoddard by at Monaco??

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#2 brooster51

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 00:48

This is too funny, I wonder how many will get it. They just won't understand what a maverick Clyde Tolsen can be.

#3 Keir

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 00:53

It's my 101st thread and I had to do something a little wacky!! :eek:

#4 Bernd

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 00:54

If I were Stoddard I would've stayed in bed with the Missus.

#5 brooster51

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 00:56

Originally posted by Keir
It's my 101st thread and I had to do something a little wacky!! :eek:


BRAVO!! :up:

#6 MPea3

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 01:01

You can't blame Pete for trying. ;)

#7 jj2728

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 01:52

the damn thing keeps jumping out of gear.... :smoking:

#8 jj2728

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 01:53

better yet, if aron had let stoddard by at monaco, would stoddard have been able to catch up to, then pass sarti for the race win?

#9 vivafroilan!

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 03:06

Rocky: "Well, son, lookin back, it might've worked out a little better if you had..."
Angel: "Hell no, Jimmy, you gotta RACE the guy! That's what you're there for, ain't it?"

#10 DOHC

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 03:31

Talking about Scott and Pete, does anyone here know if there's any interest in the book GP, which was based on the movie script and published after the movie? Maybe this obscure cultural relic belongs in the kitsch department of every true motor racing enthusiast?

#11 Sandeep Banerjee

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 04:35

Originally posted by Bernd
If I were Stoddard I would've stayed in bed with the Missus.


:up: :up:

#12 jj2728

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 05:27

Originally posted by DOHC
Talking about Scott and Pete, does anyone here know if there's any interest in the book GP, which was based on the movie script and published after the movie? Maybe this obscure cultural relic belongs in the kitsch department of every true motor racing enthusiast?


for some time it resided on my bookshelves. though i have no idea whatever happened to it.

#13 ensign14

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 07:14

Scott's daughter Susie is making a name for herself now...

#14 Ray Bell

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 07:24

Originally posted by ensign14
Scott's daughter Susie is making a name for herself now...


Is she good looking enough to hold Bernd's attention for as long as 'Mrs Stoddart' has?

Or mine, for that matter...

#15 Maldwyn

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 07:54

Originally posted by DOHC
Maybe this obscure cultural relic belongs in the kitsch department of every true motor racing enthusiast?

I now know I have a kitsch department among my bookshelves :clap:

#16 Macca

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 10:14

by bernd:

If I were Stoddard I would've stayed in bed with the Missus.



But his missus wasn't in bed.........................she was out drinking ouzo with some Greeks!

:blush:

by jj2728:

better yet, if aron had let stoddard by at monaco, would stoddard have been able to catch up to, then pass sarti for the race win?



But Scott was in front of Sarti, only Sarti had caught up two seconds that lap.

:cool:



"Do you ever get tired, Pete? Tired of the driving?"




Paul M

#17 ensign14

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 10:38

Aron was astoundingly lucky. He is lapped by his team-mate, proceeds to drive him off and nearly kill him, he goes to a rival team and spreads oil all over Sarti at Britain (surely a DQ?), loses it without any pressure in Mexico and flukes an Italian GP win when Sarti is killed thanks to a backmarker and Barlini is pulled in.

I think we have a winner in the Worst World Champion Ever stakes. Aron was worse than Stoddard, Sarti, Barlini and Bob Turner that year and stole the title thanks to others' injuries.

#18 Stephen W

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 10:50

I am sure I saw Bernie Ecclestone in the background fixing it for Pete!

A bit like Jimmy Saville only smaller!

A sort of Bernie Fixed It For Me, just like Schumi the Teutonic T055ER!

:drunk: More Ouzo!

#19 petefenelon

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 13:12

Originally posted by ensign14
Aron was astoundingly lucky. He is lapped by his team-mate, proceeds to drive him off and nearly kill him, he goes to a rival team and spreads oil all over Sarti at Britain (surely a DQ?), loses it without any pressure in Mexico and flukes an Italian GP win when Sarti is killed thanks to a backmarker and Barlini is pulled in.

I think we have a winner in the Worst World Champion Ever stakes. Aron was worse than Stoddard, Sarti, Barlini and Bob Turner that year and stole the title thanks to others' injuries.


Never thought of Pete Aron as Keke Rosberg or the Farnham Flyer before ;P

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#20 jj2728

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 13:15

Originally posted by Macca


But Scott was in front of Sarti, only Sarti had caught up two seconds that lap.

Paul M


thanks Macca, that's what i get for not consulting my lap charts prior to posting.... :smoking:

#21 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 13:49

Originally posted by Maldwyn

I now know I have a kitsch department among my bookshelves :clap:


Likewise :lol:

#22 Keir

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 14:13

That book "GP", I'd really like to have a look at that!!

Was it any good or just pulp fiction trying to get some sales from the movie???

I'm shocked that nobody has mentioned Francoise Hardy!!

I have a pic of her hanging in my hallway, it's the one where she is sitting in the cafe.

"I don't smoke, I don't drink."

Barlini then says, "What do you do?"

.....and then we all liked her that much more!! :eek:

#23 Keir

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 14:18

Sorry for back to backing, but.....

Did you ever notice that the Pete Aron character is one of the first to ever not be the true hero of the film, yet be successful??

This, of course, is backed up by Frankenheimer himself.

Sarti to most and Stoddard to others were the intended heros of the film.

......and it's really strange that in cinema history more isn't made of that fact!!

#24 brooster51

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 14:40

Originally posted by Keir
That book "GP", I'd really like to have a look at that!!

Was it any good or just pulp fiction trying to get some sales from the movie???

I'm shocked that nobody has mentioned Francoise Hardy!!

I have a pic of her hanging in my hallway, it's the one where she is sitting in the cafe.

"I don't smoke, I don't drink."

Barlini then says, "What do you do?"

.....and then we all liked her that much more!! :eek:


I was drafting a post with the quote. The chesire cat smile after the "what do you do?" was probably some of the best acting in the movie.

Let's be honest about the movie, it was more than a bit shallow on plot, it was all about the visuals. The visuals just didn't translate to paper, so you were left with . . . a read that was less satisfying than a romance novel.

I forget which movie critic said something like 'A good book rarely makes a good movie unless it's redone to be unrecognizable, and a good movie never makes a good book unless it's about something else'.

#25 Ray Bell

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 14:44

Follow up your next viewing of Grand Prix with a rerun of A Man and a Woman, brooster...

#26 Maldwyn

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 14:47

Originally posted by Keir
I'm shocked that nobody has mentioned Francoise Hardy!!

http://www.francoise-hardy.com/ :)

#27 Macca

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 14:49

http://www.free-art....mages/hardy.jpg

http://www.stern.de/...heft_31_250.jpg

Then and now..................there have been a couple of interviews and pictures in the press lately, she must have a new record to sell.



Paul M

#28 Richard Neale

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 14:52

Did you say there was 'Acting' in the film ??????????????????????????????

#29 Keir

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 14:55

This should really be on the "famous movie" thread, but the nuances of "Grand Prix" are there for the taking!! There are just so many great moments!1 Every time I talk with someone about the movie, they have their own special scene which they remember with complete clairity, even though they haven't seen the movie in years. I won't be a fool and compare it with "Casablanca", but for "US" racing nerds, it's the "Holy Grail" of racing films. As is Steve McQueen's "Le Mans".

Going futher of topic; I coach teen age girls (please, no ribald comments) and often I'll have to explain the untertones of movies that do require that you have spent more than 16 years on the planet to get them. "Lost in Translation", "Closer" and "Sideways" come to mind!!

"Grand Prix" to me has alway been that kind of movie! There's a lot more there when you take the time to really experience it!!

If Frankenheimer was still alive, I think he might just agree with my thoughts!!

#30 ensign14

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 15:17

Originally posted by Keir
Sarti to most and Stoddard to others were the intended heros of the film.

Jordan, surely?

Never thought of Pete Aron as Keke Rosberg or the Farnham Flyer before

To be fair, Keke had a car that was not worthy of winning the title and Hawthorn arguably did not either - and Mike had lots of 2nds. Aron had the best car at the start of the season and was destroyed by Scott; he then had the best car for the latter half of the season (thanks to Tim Randolph's development work - had he still been at the peak of his career he would have been the first American World Champ, he just missed out to Sarti in '61) and still only snuck the title through death and serious injury.

#31 JacnGille

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 17:02

"The last time I asked a woman that question she was stepping out of her skirt and asking for $100 in advance."


When is the blasted thing gonna be out on DVD??????????????????

#32 Dave Ware

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 18:01

He should have let Stoddard through. He was being lapped. Should have used his head and waited to race another day.

But then there would have been no plot....

#33 JohnS

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 20:52

Originally posted by JacnGille
When is the blasted thing gonna be out on DVD??????????????????


Exactly! And with plenty of extras too, please! The "Le Mans" DVD was very disappointing in that respect.

John

#34 MCS

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 21:58

Originally posted by Bernd
If I were Stoddard I would've stayed in bed with the Missus.


Oh, wow...Eva Marie-Saint. I had such a boyhood crush on her (I still have :blush: )

There's a pretty good two and a half minute clip of the movie of all time on videodetective.com.

Swoooooon :love:

Mark

#35 jj2728

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 23:25

Originally posted by MCS


Oh, wow...Eva Marie-Saint. I had such a boyhood crush on her (I still have :blush:

Mark


except that stoddard's wife pat was portrayed by jessica walter. eva marie-saint was sarti's love interest...

#36 Gerr

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Posted 28 January 2005 - 23:33

In an interview in Autosport, January 4, 1990, Aron claims he could have matched Stoddard's pace and stayed ahead (after stopping in the pits). But he had gearbox problems. He says he had more or less decided to let Stoddard by when the gearbox jammed again going into the chicane. He signalled Stoddard to pass as he hit the brakes. He thinks the brakes locked, but isn't sure. Stoddard tapped him from behind and went into the barrier and punted Aron through the hay bales and that Shell banner and into the harbour.

Personally, I always felt Aron was unfairly blamed for the incident. At the time, Scott Stoddard was a pretty erratic driver. It was well documented that he wanted to prove himself a better driver than his brother, Roger. Plus there were rumours of maritial problems and later his addiction to pain-killers.
Jordan was aware of Stoddard's troubles, but still put him in the car! Then he blamed Aron for the crash, fired him and just about killed his career.




Has anyone more info on Aron's comeback at Sebring in '71 with Michael Delaney in the 917 or the
Indycar team he formed with Frank Capua?

#37 scousepenguin

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 02:56

Originally posted by Keir
That book "GP", I'd really like to have a look at that!!

Was it any good or just pulp fiction trying to get some sales from the movie???


The album is very, very good....

Seriously.

#38 Rainer Nyberg

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 05:52

Did Peter Aron become a private investigator after his GP driving career?
Richie Jenkins....any info?

#39 ensign14

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 08:30

Originally posted by Gerr
In an interview in Autosport, January 4, 1990, Aron claims he could have matched Stoddard's pace and stayed ahead (after stopping in the pits). But he had gearbox problems. He says he had more or less decided to let Stoddard by when the gearbox jammed again going into the chicane. He signalled Stoddard to pass as he hit the brakes. He thinks the brakes locked, but isn't sure. Stoddard tapped him from behind and went into the barrier and punted Aron through the hay bales and that Shell banner and into the harbour.

Personally, I always felt Aron was unfairly blamed for the incident. At the time, Scott Stoddard was a pretty erratic driver. It was well documented that he wanted to prove himself a better driver than his brother, Roger. Plus there were rumours of maritial problems and later his addiction to pain-killers.
Jordan was aware of Stoddard's troubles, but still put him in the car! Then he blamed Aron for the crash, fired him and just about killed his career.

I don't see how Aron could have been unfairly blamed for the accident when he himself does not know how it happened.

And why was Stoddy addicted to painkillers? I'll take "Pete Aron" for $50, Alex.

"More or less decided to let Stoddard through"...after holding him up and dropping him into Sarti's clutches, sure...

No wonder he never won another F1 race.

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#40 MCS

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 09:23

Originally posted by jj2728


except that stoddard's wife pat was portrayed by jessica walter. eva marie-saint was sarti's love interest...


Really? :confused: (I had always thought Stoddard's wife was played by Eva Marie-Saint!)

Further evidence that I simply don't pay enough attention...

Okay, then, does Stoddard's wife remind anybody of Jackie Oliver's wife, Lynn ???

Mark

#41 Richard Jenkins

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Posted 29 January 2005 - 10:56

Originally posted by Rainer Nyberg
Did Peter Aron become a private investigator after his GP driving career?
Richie Jenkins....any info?


;)
Pete Aron did indeed become a private investigator after his racing career. However he has also worked as a cowboy, astronaut & became US President in 1998. He is still alive & well & living in California.
Scott Stoddard has been quiet since his racing days. He now lives near London. He became a recluse due to his injuries but now visits historic festivals.
Nino Barlini moved to the US to try to suceed in Can-Am. He didn't, but his son has found more success. Barlini is now living in Rome, where he runs a garage.

Team bosses Izo Yamura & Jeff Jordan died in 1997 & 1999 respectively. Agostini Manetta died in 1986.
Hugo Simon later had an affair with Pat Stoddard. He remained in motor sport administration until his death in 1978.


Louise Frederickson still lives in America still in the photographic industry. Pat Stoddard has been little heard of lately.
Tim Randolph was the 1961 World Champion. He now lives in Santa Monica, CA & does a fair bit


That Bob Turner chap in the film... no idea what happened to him.. :confused: ;)

:lol:

#42 Chris Skepis

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 03:30

Keir
When I saw the topic of this thread I didn't understand it very well. Although I saw the movie more than one billion times I didn't get the "by" on the topic. That is because Jeff Jordan never said "Let Scott by ". He said "Let Scott through.." Play the film again and you'll see. And I also never blamed Aron for the crash. He came out of the tunel on the inside line. Not on the ideal racing line to the approach of the chicane wich was the right side of the track They both were very close to the left side armco. So to me it was Scott who hit Aron.
Now, does anybody knows Lisa's last name ?

#43 Kaiser

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 03:36

Yes, he was getting lapped FFS

#44 Uncle Davy

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Posted 30 January 2005 - 04:59

I just want to know, who stole the engine out of Aron's car while it sat at the bottom of the harbor? It obviously wasn't there when the car was craned out later. Perhaps some nefarious espionage by a rival team...

Originally posted by ensign14
I think we have a winner in the Worst World Champion Ever stakes. Aron was worse than Stoddard, Sarti, Barlini and Bob Turner that year and stole the title thanks to others' injuries.

:mad:

...but perhaps I am biased, as noted in my Profile... ;)

#45 Keir

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Posted 31 January 2005 - 14:33

Chris,

You can blame the "by" on my East Coast American lean for terms. Jordan did indeed say, "through", but I never liked Jordan anyway, so screw him!!

I do like the way this thread is going. ;)

I hear that Cole Trickle and Pete are going to Goodwood this year??

#46 Maldwyn

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Posted 31 January 2005 - 14:45

Whatever happened to Cole :confused: When he emerged from his metaphorical smoky tunnel at Daytona things were on the up, but nothing has been heard since :drunk:

#47 Keir

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Posted 31 January 2005 - 14:50

I believe that Autosport had a "Whatever happened to" article??

#48 jonpollak

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Posted 31 January 2005 - 15:22

"American Boyfriend?"
;)


PS.
Ensign14: Susie? ....Scott's daughter?...By Pat?... surely not


Jp

#49 petefenelon

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Posted 31 January 2005 - 16:48

Originally posted by Keir
Sorry for back to backing, but.....

Did you ever notice that the Pete Aron character is one of the first to ever not be the true hero of the film, yet be successful??

This, of course, is backed up by Frankenheimer himself.

Sarti to most and Stoddard to others were the intended heros of the film.

......and it's really strange that in cinema history more isn't made of that fact!!


Pete Aron was one of the first cinematic anti-heroes - halfway between James Dean and Peter Fonda.

He wasn't a particularly likeable character, he wasn't an "establishment figure", he was definitely something of an outsider..... a very good performance by Garner.

#50 Keir

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Posted 31 January 2005 - 18:47

I liked the character of Aron quite a bit, he wasn't just a romantic version of what racing drivers were supposed to look and act like!!

Add that to the fact that I always enjoyed Garner's work and in my book you have a home run!!

As I stated earlier, There is a lot more to "Grand Prix" than just racing!!