68 replies to this topic

[Tim Murray]

I've checked the relevant mags. The TS20+ first appeared at a race meeting at the Aurora round at Brands over the August Bank Holiday weekend, but Gordon Smiley crashed it at Dingle Dell during practice and used a standard TS20 in the race on 27th August. The car had previously been shaken down by John Surtees at Goodwood, and then by Smiley in the test session at Brands before the Aurora round. Here's the description of the new car from Motoring News:

Obsolete Surtees wing car at Brands

Pete Briggs calls it TS20/0, " O for obsolete", he explains. The new Surtees is, you must understand, a ground effects car, designed around the use of sliding skirts. And next year skirts are banned. The new Surtees has therefore just three races to run.

TS20/0 has been built up at Edenbridge over the last couple of months around a brand new monocoque. Where the old TS20 had sides which sloped outwards, the new TS20 monocoque has sides which slope inwards, down to a very narrow floor. Indeed, the base is just wide enough to accommodate the width of the driver's feet, yet the top is the same width, roughly speaking, as the old car. Hence, the whole structure is still torsionally rigid but far slimmer.

Obviously, the fuel tanks, which were previously carried in the broad based, triangulated sides, have had to be relocated and, as is common wing car practice, the main capacity is now provided by a single behind-the-seat tank. However, as the car is designed specifically for Aurora racing the overall capacity, which includes two small, slim side tanks, is less than the original Grand Prix tankage.

The sides of the monocoque have been slimmed to allow the addition of wing pods, and to allow the air to flow cleanly into these the front suspension has been converted to inboard damper specification. The dampers are operated by rocker arms. However, the lower wishbones are standard TS20, as are the track, wheelbase and the rear suspension.

The TS20/0 wing pods were designed by Pete Briggs in conjunction with John Surtees and Ken Sears (now of Lotus). They are the result of much wind tunnel evaluation, and contain the radiators. Their underside is shaped to provide the necessary wing profiles. Air for the radiators enters through the front and exits over the top, via long shallow ducts.

The performance of the TS20/0 at Brands Hatch on Sunday was highly promising, but sadly Gordon Smiley crashed the car before it had a chance to show its potential.

[arttidesco]

"TS20/O has been built up at Edenbridge over the last couple of months around a brand new monocoque."

Would this not suggest that the TS20+ is not and has nothing to do with TS20/02 as suggested by OldRacingCars.com at all ?

And with a 'brand new monocoque' might the TS20/O in fact be the mythical TS21 ?

[Thundersports]

The chap I know is the other John who worked in the parts department of the dealership but knows the guys from the team i'll enquire tomorrow as today was a little fraught.

We need Allen Brown on here to clarify what his site states.

[dolomite]

My photos from Thruxton September 79


TS20 spare car in the paddock




My truly abysmal effort at photographing the start of the race shows a blurry TS20+ in fourth place. I think it retired fairly early on

[dolomite]

On its first outing at Silverstone in October, Gordon Smiley takes the chequered flag. His lap times would have put him on the third row of the grid at that year's British GP. The performance is an indication as to what might have been if Team Surtees had continued in F1

Seems a bit unlikely to me. Does anybody know what lap time it actually achieved at Silverstone?

[Tim Murray]

It's bollocks. Smiley qualified third for the Aurora round, on 1 min 17.20 sec. This would have bumped the slowest qualifier for the Grand Prix, Hector Rebaque on 1 min 17.32. Next up was Patrick Gaillard on 1 min 17.07 sec. To get onto the third row would have required a time better than Niki Lauda's 1 min 13.44 sec. To be fair, though, the Aurora runners had restricted tyres.

Edited by Tim Murray, 21 March 2012 - 09:42.

[Mallory Dan]

And Tim, quallying at that Aurora Silverstone race was freezing cold and a little damp. It was much warmer in July. And with a better driver in, respect to Smiley, that car would have easily got on the grid for the GP mid-grid I reckon.

[Tim Murray]

Agreed absolutely, Dan. I'm really impressed with how quickly the car became competitive against its much better sorted competition, and would have loved for it to have had a proper F1 career. However, the Surtees website's claim that its October time would have put it on the third row of the GP grid is ridiculous.

[dolomite]

Agreed, Tim, that was the point of my previous question.
Also worth noting that according to the Motoring News story you posted above, the car as built had only a small fuel tank so would not have been capable of completing a full GP distance.

Edited by dolomite, 21 March 2012 - 12:51.

[arttidesco]

Agreed, Tim, that was the point of my previous question.
Also worth noting that according to the Motoring News story you posted above, the car as built had only a small fuel tank so would not have been capable of completing a full GP distance.

Without a fuel stop

[TecnoRacing]

Just curious...anyone have any info on this particular car? Caption says It's the Scotcircuits Ltd. entered car driven by Robin Smith in the opening 1980 Aurora rounds...

Was this one of the ex-Smiley cars...or something else?

 

[Tim Murray]

It's actually a TS19, chassis 04. It had a long and varied career, including a few races as a CanAm car:

 

http://www.oldracing...hp?CarID=TS19/4

[Mallory Dan]

I suspect the pic is taken at one if its Ingliston Libre races, thaht's Jacobsen's B29/Stilleto alongside I believe.

[Racinrhonda]

The TS20+ was the first Surtees prototype and I'm pretty sure their last car with a very interesting story.  Sometimes I've seen it  referred to as the TS21.  The driver who helped develop it in the 1979 Aurora AFX British IRC was the talented and accomplished USA driver, Gordon Smiley who joined the team at R8 with the TS20 (Car #22 blue/yellow) Q9 F10. Gordon joined the Surtees after having a bad experience with Melchester Racing  Team, mostly based on what I feel was a lack of preparedness and conflict with teammate Desire Wilson's car owner. 

 

The TS-19 was previously driven by Robin Smith at Zandvoort and later Richard Jones at Donington Park & Mallory, perhaps another round later in the series. 

 

In the team testing phases, R9 at Nogar, Gordon was noted as having qualified in 10th with the TS20+.  However, noted as crashed in practice and was a DNS for the race. 

 

R10 at  Mallory Park, the team did not contest.  I assume back to the drawing board.  

 

R11 at BHR is a bit of a mystery for me and I'd love to clarify this.  Gordon qualified 12 with the TS 20, but noted in race records as having crashed in practice session after with the TS20+  - bugs to work out.  

 

R12 at Thruxton, the team returns with the TS20 only used in practice.  He qualified 5th with the TS20+ but bad luck returns with a DNF Engine, Accident.  

 

R13 at Snetterton, the TS20+  was a Q7, but again a DNF with engine failure.  I assume the car was making progress; however they experienced bad luck with the DV8

 

R14 was the series final round at Silverstone under rainy and wet conditions for much of the race.  Smiley qualified an impressive 3rd place and brought the team home to a victory in a very impressive drive with slicks in wet conditions. 

 

Both Gordon and Team Surtees were redeemed.  Gordon returned home to the US and began his Indy Car career in 1980, 1981 and 1982 where he crashed violently in the new ground effects March 81C, the car became loose, he corrected as a road racer would instinctively do in a split second decision, the ground effects took hold, and his career and life were abruptly ended.  Gordon's decision to  return to the US and attempt a win at the Indy 500 was based on the advice of his Patrick Racing teammate, Mario Andretti, who advised him that he would be more marketable at a higher pay scale in with a Championship F1 team if he won the Indy 500.  This was his future dream.  Team Surtees closed shop from what I understand, I assume financial hardship;  I would love to know their story.  

 

I am always interested in this topic as I was Gordon's girlfriend at the time of his death and have some unknowns I'd love to solve and would be interested in finding and restoring the #22 TS20+ for both Gordon and Surtees.  I have numerous photos I wish I could post here, but do not see that as an option.  PM me if you would like to see them.  Also, Marcus Pye, the Autosport journalist covered this series and may be able to provide more info as he followed Gordon intently.  

[GreenMachine]

Welcome Rhonda!!  I wondered at the 10-year-old-thread revival, but your post reveals all (more or less).

 

Posting images is available, it is the 11th icon on the header second row when you create a post, put your cursor on it and it should say 'image'.  Your image needs to be on the web, you can't post from your computer. this thread shows how it is done. How to post your pictures - revised, March 2017 NOW UPDATED, July 2017! AND AGAIN, April 2018! - The Nostalgia Forum - The Autosport Forums

 

I hope you can master it, I'd love to see your photos - I have had a soft spot for Surtees ever since Alan Jones drove for them.

[68targa]

Posting images is available, it is the 11th icon on the header second row when you create a post, put your cursor on it and it should say 'image'.  Your image needs to be on the web, you can't post from your computer. this thread shows how it is done. How to post your pictures - revised, March 2017 NOW UPDATED, July 2017! AND AGAIN, April 2018! - The Nostalgia Forum - The Autosport Forums

 

 

Just to correct you on this - images don't have to be on the web, you can upload from your computer. I use postimage to upload. Go to the postimage site and select photo to upload and click on the direct link icon to copy, then on this forum page select the image link as mentioned by GreenMachine. You may have to refresh the page.

 

This is Gordon Smiley during the race at Thruxton in 1979.  It is listed in the programme as TS20+
 

Edited by 68targa, 13 October 2023 - 09:54.

[Clyde Peffar]

I remember the Robin Smith car was raced regularly at Ingliston by Graham (?) Hamilton who was running the circuit at the time. The libre races attracted at few older DFV F1 cars,I have no recollection of anything other that formula cars, mostly March/Chevron Atlantics or F2. The Surtees stands out in my memory for its wood veneer sidepod outer skins lol.

[nmansellfan]

Only anecdotally related to this topic, but my mum's partner was in his first year of car racing in '79, running a pre-74 FF1600 Merlin.  He's mentioned to me in the past that he was testing at Mallory in '79 on an open test day.  Gordon Smiley was also on circuit in what I now know could have been a TS20 or TS20+.  He said that as he came out of Gerard's he could hear the Surtees but not see it in his mirrors, as he turned into the esses he could see Smiley in his mirrors exiting Gerard's, and as he braked for Shaws' hairpin Smiley was diving down the inside of him!  Followed by the blast of exhaust and DFV roar as Smiley disappeared round Devil's Elbow. 'For once I had to look at my rev counter to know when to change up as I couldn't hear my own engine over the Surtees' my mums partner said

[10kDA]

 The Surtees stands out in my memory for its wood veneer sidepod outer skins lol.

Aircraft or marine plywood, not uncommon for such an application.