3920 replies to this topic

[SophieB]

Previous threads:

 

http://forums.autosp...o-rosberg-2014/

http://forums.autosp...g-2014-part-ii/

http://forums.autosp...-2014-part-iii/

http://forums.autosp...g-2014-part-iv/

http://forums.autosp...81#entry6818087

http://forums.autosp...79#entry6863397

 

Carry on!

 

[P123]

Looking forward to Monza.

[monolulu]

Looking forward to Monza.

Going for the first time.... getting very excited!
Hoping for a good battle between Lewis & Nico.

Edited by monolulu, 31 August 2014 - 11:30.

[GoldenColt]

Lewis was strong in Monza last year, but he bottled it in Q2 and then had a slow puncture in the race. Could have finished ahead of Nico if it wasn't for the extra-stop, so maybe he'll have the upper hand this weekend.

 

But actually it's very tough to pick one of the two Merc-drivers for this race, although I don't remember Nico ever being particularly spectacular around here.

[TomNokoe]

Yeah Nico was underwhelming last year, stuck behind Hulk all race. I am wary of Lewis on the brakes this year though, he has many a lockup through most weekends at the minute.

[1Devil1]

Lewis was strong in Monza last year, but he bottled it in Q2 and then had a slow puncture in the race. Could have finished ahead of Nico if it wasn't for the extra-stop, so maybe he'll have the upper hand this weekend.

 

But actually it's very tough to pick one of the two Merc-drivers for this race, although I don't remember Nico ever being particularly spectacular around here.

 

Same was said about other circuits this year and he did put the car on pole, with Lewis in the game. I wouldn't give much about keeping the strength of the Mercedes car in mind. Also I can't remember Lewis being super strong around Monza too, schooled by Schumacher in 2011, mistake against Massa in 2010, ending his titles hopes. I see no clear favorite here, could be either way, just hoping for a weekend with no interfering, and a clear fight from the beginning to the end, since a long time  

Edited by 1Devil1, 31 August 2014 - 11:56.

[Tapz63]

Yeah Nico was underwhelming last year, stuck behind Hulk all race. I am wary of Lewis on the brakes this year though, he has many a lockup through most weekends at the minute.

The car was not this good last year though. And lewis and kimi starting from the back had an easier time passing the slower cars. Remember the Hulk was able to hold up Lewis in Korea and Alonso in many races last year as well.

[TomNokoe]

The car was not this good last year though. And lewis and kimi starting from the back had an easier time passing the slower cars. Remember the Hulk was able to hold up Lewis in Korea and Alonso in many races last year as well.

Was better than 6th place or wherever Nico finished. I remember Hamilton passing Nico at T1 and then Mercedes being ever so conservative with tyre strategy. It's medium/hard again this year, so maybe a one stop.

[Tapz63]

Was better than 6th place or wherever Nico finished. I remember Hamilton passing Nico at T1 and then Mercedes being ever so conservative with tyre strategy. It's medium/hard again this year, so maybe a one stop.

Yeah I agree with that. Hopefully we can get the race between these two that we were deprived of at Spa next week. If Nico f's up Hamiltons race again I'm gonna be pissed.

[payinkind]

Same was said about other circuits this year and he did put the car on pole, with Lewis in the game. I wouldn't give much about keeping the strength of the Mercedes car in mind. Also I can't remember Lewis being super strong around Monza too, schooled by Schumacher in 2011, mistake against Massa in 2010, ending his titles hopes. I see no clear favorite here, could be either way, just hoping for a weekend with no interfering, and a clear fight from the beginning to the end, since a long time  

 

Lewis had good/great races there from 2007-2009 and in 2012. Schumacher schooling him was more a function on the absurd gearing on the McLaren that day. Please check your facts before posting.

[1Devil1]

Lewis had good/great races there from 2007-2009 and in 2012. Schumacher schooling him was more a function on the absurd gearing on the McLaren that day. Please check your facts before posting.

 

The so called best overtaker should have past that Mercedes a bit faster, he was schooled in every way, even with that gearing, what has this to do with facts, fact is, it took him too long to get past, with a McLaren, than Red Bull from 2009 to 2013 shouldn't have past any car because they always had the short gearing. It was a disadvantage, you saw him hitting the limiter, but no ultimate excuse it took him so long. 2010 he made a stupid mistake, that destroyed his title hopes, that's a fact for you or not? Last year he destroyed his qualification lap, with a mistake. Too much mistakes, to call it him very good around this track. He has much better track records around other circuits and that was the point. No clear favorite for me.

[PAGATRON]

But, but... he's won here.

[sennafan24]

Lewis is generally good at this track, even if he has made mistakes and had difficulty in 2011. Would we consider Senna as being crap at Monaco for DNFing in 1988? You can still be very strong at a track, even if you make the odd error.

 

That said, I am not confident Lewis will win next weekend.

 

Not because I hold Nico as a Monza specialist, but because I am accustomed to Lewis falling short for whatever reason in 2014.

[AlmightyGod]

The so called best overtaker should have past that Mercedes a bit faster, he was schooled in every way, even with that gearing, what has this to do with facts, fact is, it took him too long to get past, with a McLaren, than Red Bull from 2009 to 2013 shouldn't have past any car because they always had the short gearing. It was a disadvantage, you saw him hitting the limiter, but no ultimate excuse it took him so long. 2010 he made a stupid mistake, that destroyed his title hopes, that's a fact for you or not? Last year he destroyed his qualification lap, with a mistake. Too much mistakes, to call it him very good around this track. He has much better track records around other circuits and that was the point. No clear favorite for me.

The fact that he was bouncing on the limiter half way down the straight?. The best overtakers cannot make up for a car's deficit. Trulli was able to hold up plenty of drivers and that didn't make him a teacher.

 

The mercedes was a very slippery car.

 

I agree there is no clear favourite but there is no reason to only state all the negatives about lewis whilst ignoring some great drives around this track. 2008 wet race comes to mind.

[Lamag]

 

 

payinkind: Lewis was faster in China, and in Spain until his race engineer threw away what was the most dominant FP2 display this season.

 

Rosberg had too many problems with the car to say that he was slower than Hamilton on pure pace. If you insist on give China to Hamilton then I´m gonna give Monaco to Rosberg.

[sennafan24]

Regular posters probably know by now, I do not see eye to eye with Murray Walker very often. Murray was on the F1 show this week, and by god did he say some questionable things about Lewis vs Nico. He remarked that Spa was a message to Lewis, that Nico will not be bullied off his racing line.  Which missed the point that Lewis was the driver with the racing line at Spa. When the notion was brought up that Nico could be replaced for 1 race, I have never seen a man shake his head so violently.

 

Murray also said it was "pathetic" that Nico had to say sorry. Yeah, because saying sorry for a incident you caused, is totally not needed. He also did the old "if this were backmarkers" argument to try and play down the importance of the incident. Which misses the fact that this incident had major influence on the WDC, so of course it will attract more attention, and rightfully bloody so!

 

It came as no surprise when Murray tipped Nico to win at Monza (which I did not have a problem with, I actually agree)

 

It seems that past glories mean that no one calls Murray out when he says questionable things. Do not get me wrong, he has done a load for the sport, and is rightly respected for doing so. But this is another case of him talking nonsense, and no one really calling him out on it. 

 

Nice bloke, but these days his opinions on F1 have about as much credibility with me, as a Limp Bikit fan has in musical taste 

Edited by sennafan24, 31 August 2014 - 14:14.

[SanDiegoGo]

But, but... he's won here.

there's very few places he hasn't won, to be fair.

[MrPodium]

Regular posters probably know by now, I do not see eye to eye with Murray Walker very often. Murray was on the F1 show this week, and by god did he say some questionable things about Lewis vs Nico. He remarked that Spa was a message to Lewis, that Nico will not be bullied off his racing line.  Which missed the point that Lewis was the driver with the racing line at Spa. When the notion was brought up that Nico could be replaced for 1 race, I have never seen a man shake his head so violently.

 

Murray also said it was "pathetic" that Nico had to say sorry. Yeah, because saying sorry for a incident you caused, is totally not needed. He also did the old "if this were backmarkers" argument to try and play down the importance of the incident. Which misses the fact that this incident had major influence on the WDC, so of course it will attract more attention, and rightfully bloody so!

 

It came as no surprise when Murray tipped Nico to win at Monza (which I did not have a problem with, I actually agree)

 

It seems that past glories mean that no one calls Murray out when he says questionable things. Do not get me wrong, he has done a load for the sport, and is rightly respected for doing so. But this is another case of him talking nonsense, and no one really calling him out on it. 

 

Nice bloke, but these days his opinions on F1 have about as much credibility with me, as a Limp Bikit fan has in musical taste 

I'm glad it wasn't just me who thought Walker behaved a bit strange on Friday. Every single point you raised I noticed, too, especially the part about Rosberg being replaced for one race. He was almost shaking with rage. I think it's safe to say he's no fan of Lewis Hamilton, but as an ex broadcaster, I thought he would have handled himself somewhat better during the show.

Edited by MrPodium, 31 August 2014 - 14:46.

[PayasYouRace]

When the notion was brought up that Nico could be replaced for 1 race, I have never seen a man shake his head so violently.

 

Surely any reasonable person would agree with Murray on that one.

[sennafan24]

Surely any reasonable person would agree with Murray on that one.

It was more how he disagreed, and his general demeanor, rather than what he was arguing at that stage. Murray seemed to come on with a strong argument and perspective, which was not 100% correct or balanced.

 

I can see why people thought a one race ban would be fair. Nico ruined Lewis race, and pocketed 18 points in the process. A race for a race and all that. It would ruin the nature of the sport, which is why I was against a race ban morally (as a Lewis fan, I would have gotten some joy from it, I will not lie). But I can understand why people were calling for it.

 

Murray did contradict himself even more throughout the show in regards to previous comments he has made. But those would be off-topic comments.

Edited by sennafan24, 31 August 2014 - 15:30.

[Nemo1965]

It was more how he disagreed, and his general demeanor, rather than what he was arguing at that stage. Murray seemed to come on with a strong argument and perspective, which was not 100% correct or balanced.

 

I can see why people thought a one race ban would be fair. Nico ruined Lewis race, and pocketed 18 points in the process. A race for a race and all that. It would ruin the nature of the sport, which is why I was against a race ban morally (as a Lewis fan, I would have gotten some joy from it, I will not lie). But I can understand why people were calling for it.

 

Murray did contradict himself even more throughout the show in regards to previous comments he has made. But those would be off-topic comments.

 

Murray: the nicest man possible and the worst commentator possible. A paradox, but true. I love him as a person, but his work always sucked. He couldn't tell cars from each other, he made predictions that were never true, and because he ridiculed himself, that was forgiven. But the quality of his work: sub-sub-standard.

Edited by Nemo1965, 31 August 2014 - 15:44.

[sabjit]

[bourbon]

Surely any reasonable person would agree with Murray on that one.

 

Agreed. 

 

I Further agree with Murray about the apology because even if owed it should be done in private.  He didn't owe the booing fans anything, least of all an apology - and fans like myself didn't expect or want one.  If anything the booers owed the apology to him and everyone else they ruined the podium for. 

Edited by bourbon, 31 August 2014 - 16:06.

[HamiltonFanboy]

And we will never see anything like that again. Look at the lockup, with the current pirelli tyres that tyre would be finished, just look at Rosberg's at Spa. I honestly think the Pirelli's took away Lewis's great advantage. He would brake later than everyone lock his tyres non stop from 2007>2010. Now he cant risk the same braking style. With this advantage gone I'm not sure if he is exceptional anymore. He really has to have something to prove this coming weekend. He cant qualify behind Rosberg again, it's ludicrous that he hasn't been on pole since Spain.

[Riverside]

Regular posters probably know by now, I do not see eye to eye with Murray Walker very often. Murray was on the F1 show this week, and by god did he say some questionable things about Lewis vs Nico. He remarked that Spa was a message to Lewis, that Nico will not be bullied off his racing line.  Which missed the point that Lewis was the driver with the racing line at Spa. When the notion was brought up that Nico could be replaced for 1 race, I have never seen a man shake his head so violently.

 

Murray also said it was "pathetic" that Nico had to say sorry. Yeah, because saying sorry for a incident you caused, is totally not needed. He also did the old "if this were backmarkers" argument to try and play down the importance of the incident. Which misses the fact that this incident had major influence on the WDC, so of course it will attract more attention, and rightfully bloody so!

 

It came as no surprise when Murray tipped Nico to win at Monza (which I did not have a problem with, I actually agree)

 

It seems that past glories mean that no one calls Murray out when he says questionable things. Do not get me wrong, he has done a load for the sport, and is rightly respected for doing so. But this is another case of him talking nonsense, and no one really calling him out on it. 

 

Nice bloke, but these days his opinions on F1 have about as much credibility with me, as a Limp Bikit fan has in musical taste 

 

 Murray has a right to his opinion, just as you do.  For a man who has seen and been part of so many battles in the history of F1  his opinion

has weight whether you agree or not.

[KnucklesAgain]

And we will never see anything like that again. Look at the lockup, with the current pirelli tyres that tyre would be finished, just look at Rosberg's at Spa. I honestly think the Pirelli's took away Lewis's great advantage. He would brake later than everyone lock his tyres non stop from 2007>2010. Now he cant risk the same braking style. With this advantage gone I'm not sure if he is exceptional anymore. He really has to have something to prove this coming weekend. He cant qualify behind Rosberg again, it's ludicrous that he hasn't been on pole since Spain.

 

I think that's the first time someone tried to turn frequent lock-ups into a good thing.

[sennafan24]

 Murray has a right to his opinion, just as you do.  For a man who has seen and been part of so many battles in the history of F1  his opinion

has weight whether you agree or not.

I agree he has a right to his opinion, but I disagree his opinion carries weight . As I stated, this is not the first time he has contradicted himself. or got things flat out wrong. I respect the man, he is a nice guy and has done a truck load for the sport. But these days I do not hold his opinion in high regard. 

 

We all make mistakes, but Murray has taken the mick in his latter years. He actually said something I greatly agreed with on the F1 show (not related to Lewis or Nico), but as it contradicted previous comments he made, I could not take his opinion seriously.

 

So, it is not that I disagree with him that is the problem, it is his consistency and accuracy.

Edited by sennafan24, 31 August 2014 - 16:18.

[PAGATRON]

And we will never see anything like that again. Look at the lockup, with the current pirelli tyres that tyre would be finished, just look at Rosberg's at Spa. I honestly think the Pirelli's took away Lewis's great advantage. He would brake later than everyone lock his tyres non stop from 2007>2010. Now he cant risk the same braking style. With this advantage gone I'm not sure if he is exceptional anymore. He really has to have something to prove this coming weekend. He cant qualify behind Rosberg again, it's ludicrous that he hasn't been on pole since Spain.

Didn't he do that to Massa in Austria?

Edited by PAGATRON, 31 August 2014 - 16:21.

[Shambolic]

 Murray has a right to his opinion, just as you do.  For a man who has seen and been part of so many battles in the history of F1  his opinion

has weight whether you agree or not.

 

Especially as he's seen it all, from team mates handing over their cars to rivals out of decency and respect, to drivers pre-meditating high speed collisions to win championships.

 

Perhaps he thinks this media/ fan frenzy over a racing incident, where there's ever such a slight fervour for one driver to be presented the other's head on a platter, is distasteful and saddening when placed alongside the F1 he loved.

 

I'm probably putting words in his mouth (or thoughts in his head?), but given how much respect he used to have, and how fair he was even to the most inept or unethical displays of driving, it wouldn't surprise me if it were true.

[Max!]

And we will never see anything like that again. Look at the lockup, with the current pirelli tyres that tyre would be finished, just look at Rosberg's at Spa. I honestly think the Pirelli's took away Lewis's great advantage. He would brake later than everyone lock his tyres non stop from 2007>2010. Now he cant risk the same braking style. With this advantage gone I'm not sure if he is exceptional anymore. He really has to have something to prove this coming weekend. He cant qualify behind Rosberg again, it's ludicrous that he hasn't been on pole since Spain.

This move would now be frowned upon. 

Also take note of Kimi smartly leaving room. More people should do that...

Edited by Max!, 31 August 2014 - 17:25.

[Dick Dastardly]

Mercedes team management will be on tenterhooks if both cars qualify on front row, irrespective of which order....the dash down & into the 1st chicane will be telling....under the latest edict that they cannot ever hit each.  Maybe Mercedes will hamper Lewis's car somehow that he starts further back on the grid to ensure nothing does happen....

Ferrari used to have their 2 drivers helping each other in qualifying, 1 giving the other a tow.......can't see Lewis & Nico doing that, but they probably don't need to given how far ahead of the others they were in Spa....

[MrPodium]

Especially as he's seen it all, from team mates handing over their cars to rivals out of decency and respect, to drivers pre-meditating high speed collisions to win championships.

 

Perhaps he thinks this media/ fan frenzy over a racing incident, where there's ever such a slight fervour for one driver to be presented the other's head on a platter, is distasteful and saddening when placed alongside the F1 he loved.

 

I'm probably putting words in his mouth (or thoughts in his head?), but given how much respect he used to have, and how fair he was even to the most inept or unethical displays of driving, it wouldn't surprise me if it were true.

 

Nobody is denying that. All that Sennafan and I (I'm sure others did, too) was observe that Walker became vissibly irate during the show.

You probably had to see it to appreciate our comments. That's all.

Edited by MrPodium, 31 August 2014 - 17:35.

[OilFour]

I think that's the first time someone tried to turn frequent lock-ups into a good thing.

A good thing? ... If that would come with these kind off passes, hell yeah, that's sure is a good thing. 

[bourbon]

I agree he has a right to his opinion, but I disagree his opinion carries weight . As I stated, this is not the first time he has contradicted himself. or got things flat out wrong. I respect the man, he is a nice guy and has done a truck load for the sport. But these days I do not hold his opinion in high regard. 

 

We all make mistakes, but Murray has taken the mick in his latter years. He actually said something I greatly agreed with on the F1 show (not related to Lewis or Nico), but as it contradicted previous comments he made, I could not take his opinion seriously.

 

So, it is not that I disagree with him that is the problem, it is his consistency and accuracy.

 

I get what you mean.  That is how I view Peter Windsor - verbatim.   In addition, Walker has been inconsistent in the past, even, hilariously, calling himself out   

 

However, the race ban calls were unreasonable.  You said you can understand how people would see them as fair,  but the reason you provided is "Nico ruined Lewis race, and pocketed 18 points in the process. A race for a race and all that" which is something done on a kindergarten playground, but has no place in F1, imo.   Furthermore, you can issue a draconian punishment for a race incident of this nature when that is reserved for circumstances like Grosjean taking out 4 cars at the start of SPA after a history of such catastrophes.  How is what Nico did even in the realm of a similar offense?   So I don't see how you feel anyone could see that as fair. 

 

I also don't agree with the apology or the booing - but I think that is a bit more controversial.

[sennafan24]

You said you can understand how people would see them as fair,  but the reason you provided is "Nico ruined Lewis race, and pocketed 18 points in the process. A race for a race and all that" which is something done on a kindergarten playground, but has no place in F1, imo.   

I did not agree with the booing, to be fair 

 

It is what it is really. I would probably not understand the perspective if the stakes were not so high, and Lewis had not been shafted so often this year. I did highlight that I disagreed with the race ban, for various reasons

 

It just seems very unfair that Lewis lost 18 points through no fault of his own, but as I said, I would not want to tinker with the nature of F1. Double points has already threatened that in my opinion.

 

The whole subject is kind of a greyarea to me

Edited by sennafan24, 31 August 2014 - 19:09.

[garagetinkerer]

Nobody is denying that. All that Sennafan and I (I'm sure others did, too) was observe that Walker became vissibly irate during the show.

You probably had to see it to appreciate our comments. That's all.

Walker has been around for a bit, and may be, just may be, he finds it irksome that F1 was sort of doing the pop-idol thing there... pandering to popular emotions, and not working within existing framework of rules.

 

Yes, i loved how the unbiased lot mocked Windsor for doing his film next to water, "because Nico did it..." and so on.

[Longtimefan]

Murray also said it was "pathetic" that Nico had to say sorry. Yeah, because saying sorry for a incident you caused, is totally not needed.

 

So in your opinion then, Ayrton should have publicly apologised to Alain for Suzuka 1989 and 1990?

[sennafan24]

So in your opinion then, Ayrton should have publicly apologised to Alain for Suzuka 1989 and 1990?

1990? Yes, he was at fault

 

1989? No, I felt Prost was more to blame.

[MrPodium]

Walker has been around for a bit, and may be, just may be, he finds it irksome that F1 was sort of doing the pop-idol thing there... pandering to popular emotions, and not working within existing framework of rules.

 

Yes, i loved how the unbiased lot mocked Windsor for doing his film next to water, "because Nico did it..." and so on.

 

Like I said, you're better off watching the program to understand our opinions and comments instead of guessing in which context the questions were asked.

 

And I've never much rated Windsor. I know he's been around for an eternity and is extremely well connected, but there's something about the man that I find irritating, although I did watch the podcast you mentioned.

Edited by MrPodium, 31 August 2014 - 19:55.

[Tapz63]

I get what you mean. That is how I view Peter Windsor - verbatim. In addition, Walker has been inconsistent in the past, even, hilariously, calling himself out

However, the race ban calls were unreasonable. You said you can understand how people would see them as fair, but the reason you provided is "Nico ruined Lewis race, and pocketed 18 points in the process. A race for a race and all that" which is something done on a kindergarten playground, but has no place in F1, imo. Furthermore, you can issue a draconian punishment for a race incident of this nature when that is reserved for circumstances like Grosjean taking out 4 cars at the start of SPA after a history of such catastrophes. How is what Nico did even in the realm of a similar offense? So I don't see how you feel anyone could see that as fair.

I also don't agree with the apology or the booing - but I think that is a bit more controversial.

Sennafan said should he be replaced for a race. By the team. He didn't say a race ban. I think it is a bit silly to think Mercedes would do that but I think he should have got a penalty in the race for causing a collision.
Rosberg should have apologised straight away in my view.

[sennafan24]

Sennafan said should he be replaced for a race. By the team. He didn't say a race ban

Pretty much

 

But I do not think the team should have given Nico a race ban, I just said I can understand why others think they should

[Lamag]

Rosberg does not need to apologize to Lewis. It is what it is. He was forced to apologize and everybody know it.

 

Lewis tasted the Newton's third law. He always was aggressive with Rosberg and Rosberg has finally decided to be aggressive with Lewis. Thats the point he wanted to prove. Lewis knows Rosberg can be as aggressive as him, so next time he wants to put an aggressive move on Rosberg he better think twice.

[sennafan24]

 

Rosberg does not need to apologize to Lewis. It is what it is. He was forced to apologize and everybody know it.

 

Lewis tasted the Newton's third law. He always was aggressive with Rosberg and Rosberg has finally decided to be aggressive with Lewis. Thats the point he wanted to prove. Lewis knows Rosberg can be as aggressive as him, so next time he wants to put an aggressive move on Rosberg he better think twice.

 

 

 I am getting out whilst the thread is young. 

 

[Lamag]

 I am getting out whilst the thread is young. 

 

 

 

Don't get me wrong. I think that is the attitude Rosberg wants to show from now on. This is not what my feelings are about this situation.

 

Rosberg does not deserve the second place he get at spa. It was a shameful race from him.

[garagetinkerer]

Like I said, you're better off watching the program to understand our opinions and comments instead of guessing in which context the questions were asked.

 

And I've never much rated Windsor. I know he's been around for an eternity and is extremely well connected, but there's something about the man that I find irritating, although I did watch the podcast you mentioned.

Honestly speaking, if the pop idol crap Mercedes pulled on their twitter and facepalm didn't irk you and violently enough, then perhaps you're not passionate enough about the sport

 

Sure **** happened, and one driver came out worse than the other, but the knee-jerk this time, was worse than usual, and not easy to stomach. Of course fans of the affected driver will say it was only fair to bust chops, dock a race or few or whatever, but that is not racing. As i said, it is more pop idol than anything else.

[amppatel]

I have a thought on the crash, and any punishment, that I don't think anyone has mentioned. I'll lead you through my thoughts and I'm sure people will correct me.

 

Mods: it is relevant to LH Vs NR in terms of how the value to the WDC and what it means to them.

 

The WDC is not like a GCSE, which (may) give job prospects, nor is it just about the throphey, it's all to do with the respsect that comes with it.

 

So, what does the WDC actually give the driver:

1. Money - I'm sure there is a significant financial reward to the driver who wins it
2. Self fufilment (whoo I'm a world chamion - (again) finally )
3. Respect from other people - the fans/media/people in the future

In my view, I don't think any of the two care much about the money.

 

That leaves two rewards for winning the WDC.

 

For me personally, for anything signifacnt that I try to do, I do it mainly for #3 (without the fans/media, more the boss haha). But of course, there is a balance between #2 and #3 that will vary on the person. However, the balance between the two is actually irrelevant in the present reasoning.

 

If NR was to win the championship by less than 18 points, surely #2 and #3 (at least partly) go out the window. Yes, NR has done a super job the rest of the season, being very close to LH, but at the end of the day, it was NR's error (doesn't matter if it was intential or not, that is irrelevant), that has allowed him to win the WDC.

 

So if NR was to win the WDC (by less than 18 points), surely, for himself, he will feel a bit dissatisfied with the whole achievement - I know I would.

 

My point is, do you think that NR will gift those points back to LH on his own - without any force?

 

I understand there are other considerations. Firstly, the team would be pissed as they would be constructor points lost - even though they are going to win that without trouble. However, once the WCC is sealed, maybe it would be an option.

 

Secondly, I know people would say this: "but who knows, if NR didn't crash into LH he may have still won and LH come second" - who cares, that doesn't factor into it.

 

Lastly, even if NR was to win by more that 18 points, it still would be quite a hollow victory, he has taken the momentum away from LH and (maybe) forced LH into more agressive driving and pressure.

 

Another question: do you think LH would gift the points back if the roles were reversed?

 

Sorry for the long post - I had to explain the point properly.

 

 

 

 

 

[garagetinkerer]

I have a thought on the crash, and any punishment, that I don't think anyone has mentioned. I'll lead you through my thoughts and I'm sure people will correct me.

 

Mods: it is relevant to LH Vs NR in terms of how the value to the WDC and what it means to them.

 

The WDC is not like a GCSE, which (may) give job prospects, nor is it just about the throphey, it's all to do with the respsect that comes with it.

 

So, what does the WDC actually give the driver:

1. Money - I'm sure there is a significant financial reward to the driver who wins it
2. Self fufilment (whoo I'm a world chamion - (again) finally )
3. Respect from other people - the fans/media/people in the future

In my view, I don't think any of the two care much about the money.

 

That leaves two rewards for winning the WDC.

 

For me personally, for anything signifacnt that I try to do, I do it mainly for #3 (without the fans/media, more the boss haha). But of course, there is a balance between #2 and #3 that will vary on the person. However, the balance between the two is actually irrelevant in the present reasoning.

 

If NR was to win the championship by less than 18 points, surely #2 and #3 (at least partly) go out the window. Yes, NR has done a super job the rest of the season, being very close to LH, but at the end of the day, it was NR's error (doesn't matter if it was intential or not, that is irrelevant), that has allowed him to win the WDC.

 

So if NR was to win the WDC (by less than 18 points), surely, for himself, he will feel a bit dissatisfied with the whole achievement - I know I would.

 

My point is, do you think that NR will gift those points back to LH on his own - without any force?

 

I understand there are other considerations. Firstly, the team would be pissed as they would be constructor points lost - even though they are going to win that without trouble. However, once the WCC is sealed, maybe it would be an option.

 

Secondly, I know people would say this: "but who knows, if NR didn't crash into LH he may have still won and LH come second" - who cares, that doesn't factor into it.

 

Lastly, even if NR was to win by more that 18 points, it still would be quite a hollow victory, he has taken the momentum away from LH and (maybe) forced LH into more agressive driving and pressure.

 

Another question: do you think LH would gift the points back if the roles were reversed?

 

Sorry for the long post - I had to explain the point properly.

In short, if Rosberg wins it, it is not good enough, no matter what... bravo!

Edited by garagetinkerer, 31 August 2014 - 20:54.

[amppatel]

In short, if Rosberg wins it, it is not good enough, no matter what... bravo!

 

Not with the crash hanging over his head, no. Thanks for the short version.

[andrewf1]

 

Rosberg does not need to apologize to Lewis. It is what it is. He was forced to apologize and everybody know it.

 

Lewis tasted the Newton's third law. He always was aggressive with Rosberg and Rosberg has finally decided to be aggressive with Lewis. Thats the point he wanted to prove. Lewis knows Rosberg can be as aggressive as him, so next time he wants to put an aggressive move on Rosberg he better think twice.

 

 

The only point Nico managed to prove is that he's sloppy and reckless when he's aggressive.

 

If he had actually been successful in completing the move and overtaking Lewis, his point might have been valid...and respected.

[Lamag]

Not with the crash hanging over his head, no. Thanks for the short version.

 

 

Maybe it is a short vision but I think is the correct vision. No matter by how many points, if Rosberg win the WDC this year, there is always an argument to take away as much credit as possible from him.