3993 replies to this topic

[Mc_Silver]

So we have the first concrete news about brand new McLaren-Honda MP4-30; It passes FIA's crash tests!! Hopefully this car will be a very good car. There are lots of things to be excited about. Let the game begin! 

 

 

 

McLaren has become the first Formula 1 team to announce that its 2015 car has passed all the FIA's mandatory crash tests.

The Woking squad, which reunites with Honda for next season, has yet to reveal a launch date for its new design. Pre-season testing begins at Jerez on February 1.

The early confirmation that McLaren has completed the crash tests is in contrast to the team's 2014 car, which did not get through the process until a week before pre-season testing began, having faced a race against time to get approval to take to the track.

In recent years F1 regulations have been tightened to ensure that cars pass crash tests before taking to the track at all, rather than just having to do complete the tests before the opening grand prix.

McLaren finalised its 2015 driver line-up earlier this week when it re-signed Jenson Button and finally announced the return of Fernando Alonso.

 

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/117133

Edited by Mc_Silver, 13 December 2014 - 08:50.

[sportyskells]

the next question is want will the livery look like for this car? I have a sneaky feeling McLaren might go back to the famous white and Red of the past (bearing in mind it has to look sighty different to when it was McLaren Honda before)

[George Costanza]

the next question is want will the livery look like for this car? I have a sneaky feeling McLaren might go back to the famous white and Red of the past (bearing in mind it has to look sighty different to when it was McLaren Honda before)

That was because of Marlboro. Not Honda.

 

We won't see that red and white shceme again.

[DutchQuicksilver]

the next question is want will the livery look like for this car? I have a sneaky feeling McLaren might go back to the famous white and Red of the past (bearing in mind it has to look sighty different to when it was McLaren Honda before)

Could very well be, especially after viewing the photo's of Alonso and Dennis with that coloured car in the background.

 

Hopefully Honda produces a strong engine from the start. It would be too much to ask for to fight Mercedes, but perhaps Alonso can fight with the Red Bulls and Williams cars.

[Imateria]

White and red isn't out of the question being Honda's corporate colours, but if they are used they'll be of a different shade and in a very different pattern to the old Marlboro livery.

[mp4x]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Not again! It's MP4-30.

Last year when the MP4-29 thread was opened, the creator got it wrong and see where we ended.

[nosecone]

Hello to the new era. Doesn't matter what colour... just has to be fast

[balmybaldwin]

If the rumours of Movistar sponsorship come true, we could be looking at something blue which would add a bit of colour to the grid.


Something similar to this:

http://cdn0.media.cy...10544_n_600.jpg

[Fastcake]

Has someone taken up the vital task of setting up the "Official Atlas F1 McLaren Swingometer©"?

[Treads]

It sounds like great news to be honest. Except that you would have thought they would have waited for PP to be onboard in order to make fundamental decisions about the car and hence that they would be behind. Maybe they have just taken a piece of tracing paper to the Red Bull and/or Mercedes?

I hereby predict that the MP4-30 car looks like an RB clone :-) Assuming the engine is okay, we should have a decent 2015.

[crbassassin]

Hopefully Honda produces a strong engine from the start.

 

If it's anything like their 2008 engine, then McLaren would be screwed.

[keshav]

I guess the car will be really good. Prodromou would have been working on it for a long time. Plus the engine should be good. Alonso mentioned he went to the factory in Japan and liked what he saw. He wouldn't change teams for nothing.

[George Costanza]

I guess the car will be really good. Prodromou would have been working on it for a long time. Plus the engine should be good. Alonso mentioned he went to the factory in Japan and liked what he saw. He wouldn't change teams for nothing.

 

He said that about Ferrari in 2009.... I hope they do give him a car that is good enough.

Edited by George Costanza, 13 December 2014 - 04:06.

[HPT]

He said that about Ferrari in 2009.... I hope they do give him a car that is good enough.

 

He said that about the F2010? If yes then he wasn't wrong...

[hollowstar]

Not sure what to expect from that car. But at least it will be 6 tenths faster. 

[kosmos]

He said that about Ferrari in 2009.... I hope they do give him a car that is good enough.

 

When you change teams everything is awesome the first day. The key thing here is that what he saw from McLaren/Honda was more promising than whatever Ferrari is planning, that's already a plus.

[topical]

I think people need to give up the delusion that this will be some Mercedes beater from the first race. It's not going to happen.

First test was a disaster. Last time Honda were in F1 their engines were so-so.

This isn't 1988.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but really don't expect a winning car in 2015.

[HoldenRT]

It's a long term project.  In the short term, they just gave up the strongest engine in the field.

[aramos]

It seems reasonable to me that McLaren have shifted their focus to this car for quite some time now, knowing that the 2014 car was nothing more than a stop-gap and would have to be modified for the Honda engines. So there is quite a strong chance that this car will be very efficient aerodynamically. I have faith in their chassis designers, particularly their newly reinvigorated aerodynamics staff, but the thing that is mostly in question is the competitiveness of the engine. While no one is really expecting Mercedes level of power and drivability, I hope that they are at the very least comparable to the best that Renault and Ferrari can produce. 

[Timstr11]

It's a long term project.  In the short term, they just gave up the strongest engine in the field.

....for possibly an even stronger or equally strong engine. Honda might surprise.

[Rocket73]

It's a long term project.  In the short term, they just gave up the strongest engine in the field.

 

With the wrong fuel...Honda may produce a blinder and have been developing the fuel for it for months..with a new aero team I think McLaren could make a challenger.

[Mc_Silver]

 

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO! Not again! It's MP4-30.

Last year when the MP4-29 thread was opened, the creator got it wrong and see where we ended.

 

 

LOL. You're right but  don't worry mate, mods will fix it  

 

I'm very excited about this project. I see  it as a win win project. I don't have very high expectations for the first races but I'm sure this car will improve hell a lot throughout the season and will be a regular podium contender like Williams last season. Announcement for the launch date can't come soon enough   

[LORDBYRON]

It seems reasonable to me that McLaren have shifted their focus to this car for quite some time now, knowing that the 2014 car was nothing more than a stop-gap and would have to be modified for the Honda engines. So there is quite a strong chance that this car will be very efficient aerodynamically. I have faith in their chassis designers, particularly their newly reinvigorated aerodynamics staff, but the thing that is mostly in question is the competitiveness of the engine. While no one is really expecting Mercedes level of power and drivability, I hope that they are at the very least comparable to the best that Renault and Ferrari can produce. 

Wrong all F1 engines have the same mounting points any teams engines are interchangeable.  

 

IMHO I think the people that say they wont be competitive from the start seem to have short memory's as Honda continued development of a car  that was no longer in F1 when they sold to brawn so that was 2009 so i cant see why in  2010 when the regs changed they would not be doing the same 

Edited by LORDBYRON, 13 December 2014 - 09:35.

[Tourgott]

I think people need to give up the delusion that this will be some Mercedes beater from the first race. It's not going to happen.

First test was a disaster. Last time Honda were in F1 their engines were so-so.

This isn't 1988.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed, but really don't expect a winning car in 2015.

 

True. I don't understand where this optimism comes from.

I'm also not sure if Honda really got the endurance for such a "long term project". They did not proof it in the past and left F1 5 or 6 times when they were not successful. So I don't see them as the big savior of F1.

Edited by Tourgott, 13 December 2014 - 09:44.

[aramos]

Wrong all F1 engines have the same mounting points any teams engines are interchangeable.  

 

IMHO I think the people that say they wont be competitive from the start seem to have short memory's as Honda continued development of a car  that was no longer in F1 when they sold to brawn so that was 2009 so i cant see why in  2010 when the regs changed they would not be doing the same 

 

Just because they have identical mounting points doesn't mean that their engine dimensions are interchangeable. Height and width differences would still drastically alter the sidepod dimensions which would create flow on aerodynamic modifications for the entire car. 

[Knot]

Wrong all F1 engines have the same mounting points any teams engines are interchangeable.  

 

This is the most ridiculous thing that I've read on this forum...EVER.

 

Congratulations on being promoted from Lord Byron to King Nitwit.

Edited by Knot, 13 December 2014 - 10:02.

[Timstr11]

Just because they have identical mounting points doesn't mean that their engine dimensions are interchangeable. Height and width differences would still drastically alter the sidepod dimensions which would create flow on aerodynamic modifications for the entire car. 

 

Just to add, don't forget about installation of ancillary systems like, water and oil radiators, intercoolers, exhaust, hydraulics, airbox, which have an even bigger impact on both internal and external aerodynamics.

 

With Prodromou's late arrival, I doubt he will have had maximum influence on how all these systems are packaged to suit his aero philosophy. Some of that will come later in the season I think.

[NoSanityClause]

Bernie: 

"I have been proposing and am going to propose that we go back to a normally aspirated engine with some hybrid bits built into it.

 

Source: http://www.pitpass.c...10s-or-anything

 

A normally aspirated V8 or V10 from 2016...that will make things interesting for 2015!

[GrumpyYoungMan]

Honda are also are a year behind on real time data from races...

[aramos]

Just to add, don't forget about installation of ancillary systems like, water and oil radiators, intercoolers, exhaust, hydraulics, airbox, which have an even bigger impact on both internal and external aerodynamics.

 

With Prodromou's late arrival, I doubt he will have had maximum influence on how all these systems are packaged to suit his aero philosophy. Some of that will come later in the season I think.

 

The MP4/29 to me always looked like it was running 'temporary' sidepods relative to the other cars. They were absolutely huge. It will be interesting to see what they come up with from this point onwards. 

 

 

It always just reminded me of the W04, which was always a half baked interim car rather than a finished product. Maybe I'm just being generous to McLaren. 

[Timstr11]

The MP4/29 to me always looked like it was running 'temporary' sidepods relative to the other cars. They were absolutely huge. It will be interesting to see what they come up with from this point onwards. 

 

 

It always just reminded me of the W04, which was always a half baked interim car rather than a finished product. Maybe I'm just being generous to McLaren. 

 

I wouldn't call it half-baked. It was just the vision of the previous lead aero designers. To single one thing out, they went for the high, standing radiators for a (likely flawed) reason.

 

(BTW, the W04 wasn't half-baked either. Remember it was the runner up to the RB9 in WCC. They just stopped development half-way to concentrate on the W05).

[aramos]

I wouldn't call it half-baked. It was just the vision of the previous lead aero designers. To single one thing out, they went for the high, standing radiators for a (likely flawed) reason.

(BTW, the W04 wasn't half-baked either. Remember it was the runner up to the RB9 in WCC. They just stopped development half-way to concentrate on the W05).

Half baked is the wrong term for the w04, but I remember even at the time Mercedes were essentially calling it an interim car, saying they didn't expect to challenge until 2014.

[handel]

Wrong all F1 engines have the same mounting points any teams engines are interchangeable.  

 

IMHO I think the people that say they wont be competitive from the start seem to have short memory's as Honda continued development of a car  that was no longer in F1 when they sold to brawn so that was 2009 so i cant see why in  2010 when the regs changed they would not be doing the same 

 

The mounting points are the same but the engines can be quite different shapes and more importantly the cooling requirements can be totally different!

 

Here is an interesting article with a quote from Nick Chester, Lotus TD

 

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/117084

 

 

Chester says the Mercedes engine will "open up a number of possibilities" to improve on this year's E22 design, which generally qualified towards the back end of Q2, beyond the simple benefits of extra power and smoother delivery.

"The packaging is very different, and that has some advantages in how we lay out cooling systems in the back of the car," Chester explained to AUTOSPORT.

"The way the Mercedes engine is laid out is quite nice in a few ways for how we do the back end of the car.

"Our whole cooling system layout will be different, so it opens up quite a few possibilities for us."

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Raziel]

If it's half a second slower then Mercedes at Malaysia, I would be very happy!

[nosecone]

Question: Every team has two filming days per season. But what does that mean -'per season' ? Does it mean that after January 1st the teams can do two filming days? Or when are they allowed to hold those filming days?

[Lemans]

It's a long term project.  In the short term, they just gave up the strongest engine in the field.

 

...and gained factory support.

[F1Champion]

I've never been a fan of McLaren or Alonso that much. But over the last few years I really have admired Alonso's driving and firmly believe that he deserves a championship contending car. I really want McLaren-Honda to do well. I like the way Honda go about their business but I can't help but think that they will be a bit behind Mercedes. Here's hoping for a level playing field in 2015.

Edited by F1Champion, 13 December 2014 - 22:35.

[Treads]

Best case scenario that I think is credible would be that we are second best team next year. I like Eric's approach. We seem to be ahead of the curve for next year in every area. Best drivers, Honda engine already tested on track (and those people saying it's a disaster need to dry their balls, it isn't), car already passes it's crash tests, next year's wing already tested on track. I don't think we can catch the Mercs but if we have a strong engine and good aero for the first time in years, I think we will be okay. 

 

Worst case we are piddling around in 5th and 6th place again. We will not be behind Sauber, Force India, Toro Rosso, but if the engine is a dud then we will be in for a miserable season. 

[balmybaldwin]

If it's half a second slower then Mercedes at Malaysia, I would be very happy!

Even if everyone else is 4 tenths off merc?

[George Costanza]

Even if everyone else is 4 tenths off merc?

 

Then that would be a problem....

 

It willl take time before Mercedes is beaten.... But I hope Honda can do it. They have done it before, granted that was a long time ago, but they have the know how to do that. What really would be worse is if the Honda is good and the car's chassis is not very good.

I think we'll see the old days back with Williams vs McLaren again in the future (and Mercedes).

 

I don't think Ferrari can catch up in this forumla, to be honest...

Edited by George Costanza, 14 December 2014 - 03:11.

[Peter0Scandlyn]

Take heart in that it has taken rather longer then they've previously been used to for the Mercedes cream to rise to the top.

Honda can shake it!

[Rurouni]

Even if everyone else is 4 tenths off merc?

And Alonso would bring .6s thus a total of .1 faster than Merc!

Anyway, I believe that the engine will be fast. At this time, I'm just worried about the reliability. Even Merc car with somewhat almost bulletproof engine did suffer from reliability issue. McLaren suffered less reliability issue probably because the body isn't as tight as the others (late final engine spec from Merc?). For 2015, it would be reasonable to believe that the car will be tight as hell, especially considering how tight RB cars are. So I can see McLaren would suffer more reliability issues than before.

But I'm sure hoping it would be fast and unreliable vs slow but bulletproof. At least the former would be more fun to watch and much more to talk about. The forum would swing wildly from race to race

[keshav]

I think the car will be very quick. McLaren suffered with downforce. To tackle this, Prodromou is there. I'm sure he has been working on the machine since September. And working very closely with Honda to integrate the engine into the car properly. If the engine is reliable enough, there is no doubt they will challenge Mercedes.

[Nicktendo86]

Fast but fragile will do me. You can make a fast car reliable but a slow car is always slow. Don't be conservative!

[CHIUNDA]

Livery wise I am expecting a solid stripe of McLaren corporate orange. Traditionally engine suppliers don't have much influence on livery. But the rest of the body being white would suit both McLaren and Honda nicely I think. If Movistar are sponsoring then an inspired dash of blue would make an appealingly colourful MP4-30.

[CHIUNDA]

The mounting points are the same but the engines can be quite different shapes and more importantly the cooling requirements can be totally different!

Here is an interesting article with a quote from Nick Chester, Lotus TD

http://www.autosport...t.php/id/117084

Logically the Honda engine layout should be very similar to the Mercedes engine. McLaren have had access to the Mercedes engine for a year so Honda would know what to shoot for. Why would they have a different layout from the most dominant engine in two decades?

[Jelinski619]

I think people are being a little too quick to assume this years McLaren will be quick. Sure McLaren-Honda worked well once upon a time, but so did Ferrari, and where have they been the last few years?

 

The 2014 McLaren was poor. I would be incredibly surprised if they've gained enough in the off-season to even catch up with the 2014 Mercedes, let alone whatever improvements they come up with.

[MirNyet]

Logically the Honda engine layout should be very similar to the Mercedes engine. McLaren have had access to the Mercedes engine for a year so Honda would know what to shoot for. Why would they have a different layout from the most dominant engine in two decades?

 

Most of the engine making will be adopting the Mercedes layout and whatever is known about the engine so it makes sense for Honda to do the same. I wouldn't over estimate McLarens access to the Mercedes engine unit and its metrics (while they will have performance data I doubt they have any of the internal metrics) and even if they did - they would get into a pile of trouble if they were to hand it over to Honda.

[CHIUNDA]

Bernie:
Source: http://www.pitpass.c...10s-or-anything

A normally aspirated V8 or V10 from 2016...that will make things interesting for 2015!

I am not sure that switching back to the pre-2014 V8 engines will stop Mercedes winning a 3rd championship in a row. As I recall Mercedes had got on top of the issues in 2013 and finished a solid 2nd. If they had continued with development after summer break they could well have challenged for the 2013 championship.

[MirNyet]

I think people are being a little too quick to assume this years McLaren will be quick. Sure McLaren-Honda worked well once upon a time, but so did Ferrari, and where have they been the last few years?

 

The 2014 McLaren was poor. I would be incredibly surprised if they've gained enough in the off-season to even catch up with the 2014 Mercedes, let alone whatever improvements they come up with.

 

I would imagine many are expecting a very Red Bull like car from McLaren for 2015 in terms of its aero concept. Its been known for a while that aero has been McLarens problem and they've basically changed their aero dept. this year so its not folly to expect them to move forward next year.