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Williams FW32 Cosworth


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#1 DFV

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 11:43

So let's discuss next years Williams.

How will the new car be? What about the two drivers? The Cosworth engine?

Should make for a pretty exciting season for the Williams team.

:up:

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#2 UPRC

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 11:46

I'm not expecting much, but at least they have what looks to be a pretty solid driver pairing.

#3 Simon Says

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 11:53

Rubens is a very good driver, he can beat Jenson. Let's see if the new kid can be good in F1 too. We have seen that past succes doesn't mean succes in F1. ( Kobayashi vs Grosjean )

I'm very worried about the new engine. Terrible choice. If you're going to ditch your current engine, make sure that you're upgrading to a better engine atleast. :wave:

Williams won't be a front runner next season, but a mid-fielder. Is going to have to fight with the likes of Toyota and Renault imo.

#4 Francesc

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 11:56

After 2 season the team have a really experienced driver to guide the team developing the car, Cosworth should be the most powerful engine, and will be a big step forward over the Toyota, and the team won't do the same mistakes they did in 2006 with bad installation of the engine on the chasis, hopefully the cossie it's not a fuel sucker.

Let's hope the FW32 will be better with heavy fuel than it has been this season, it will be crucial.

#5 The Ragged Edge

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 11:58

So let's discuss next years Williams.

How will the new car be? What about the two drivers? The Cosworth engine?

Should make for a pretty exciting season for the Williams team.

:up:


IMO they've already used up their ace card and thats the Double Diffuser. In that area they can only refine and it wont be a quantum leap like the other teams, who had to do botch job Double/tripple diffusers. The Cosworth engine including ease of installation and fuel consumption, is also a unknown. Are Williams going to go down the Brawn or Red Bull route, in how the car will look? With an increase in fuel to be carried, I'm sure the car will be lengthened. With design regulations set and all the teams knowing what is and isn't allowed, Williams doesn't have the biggest scope for improvement IMO. All the cars that started with KERS and never incorporated a DD, will be ahead IMO.


#6 slideways

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 12:06

There is talk that all of the cars will lift the nose up again in imitation of the Red Bull, and that we will see much more advanced floor + diffuser combinations.

PS. I've been talking about a Williams Barrichello combination for years, I think they're a match made in heaven. :up:

#7 krapmeister

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 12:11

...PS. I've been talking about a Williams Barrichello combination for years, I think they're a match made in heaven. :up:


They said the same thing about the Williams Webber combo and look how that turned out.

I get the feeling that Rubens likes to be cuddled a bit, and Williams isn't a cuddly F1 team...

#8 teejay

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 13:58

Cosworth should be the most powerful engine, and will be a big step forward over the Toyota,


Your kidding, right?

#9 DFV

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 14:29

Your kidding, right?


Eh, no I don't think he's kidding. Reports in German media (in connection with Red Bull and next years engine) has stated that the Cosworth should be around 15hp more than the Mercedes. The unknowns are more with reliability and fuel consumption.

Remember that the 2006 CA V8, which the 2010 engine is based on, was the best engine in 2006 (most powerful, highest revving and only one engine failure). The Mercedes on the other hand was a disaster and they didn't really get to grips with it until late 2006 and in 2007. After the 2006 season quite a few Cosworth engineers got a job at Mercedes and at least 4 of them are now back with Cosworth. Cosworth is also allowed to modify their engine until March 1 since it will be considered a new engine. The version they supply to FIA on March 1st will be their homologated F1 engine.

Red Bull also publicly said they would not have been considering the Cosworth engine if it wasn't a good engine (based on dyno info etc.). That Red Bull was actually seriously considering to swap the Renault for the Cosworth should say something about the Cosworth engines qualities. But in the end Red Bull choose the safe option of going with what was safe and tried.

Edited by DFV, 02 November 2009 - 14:33.


#10 zarooch

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 14:39

As much as I'd like to see Williams join the fight for the championships (WDC, WCC). I'm afraid they will remain just a mediocre team, i.e. start season good and then loose out on the development race through the season. I thought they'd be fighting for the championship this season considering there car had the DD along with Toyota, so only Brawn came out on top and I'm a lil disappointed from that aspect. They didn't capitalize on the advantage they had.

Anyway, I hope to see a very competitive season from Williams in 2010, nothing against them.

#11 teejay

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 15:26

My memories of the Cosworth must be muddied by their other years where they simply wernt up to the competition. Hope its true.

I am mainly a McLaren fan, but have always had a soft spot for Sir Frank and his team.

I wish them a competitive 2010.

#12 DFV

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 16:37

My memories of the Cosworth must be muddied by their other years where they simply wernt up to the competition. Hope its true.

I am mainly a McLaren fan, but have always had a soft spot for Sir Frank and his team.

I wish them a competitive 2010.


Me too!

Cosworth is supplying 5 teams next season. I do hope that at least Williams gets good results. Otherwise I'm afraid Cosworth will still have a reputation of non competitive engines, no matter how good the actual engine is... (the Cosworth engines haven't been in a consistent race winning team since 1994)

#13 Muz Bee

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 21:33

Me too!

Cosworth is supplying 5 teams next season. I do hope that at least Williams gets good results. Otherwise I'm afraid Cosworth will still have a reputation of non competitive engines, no matter how good the actual engine is... (the Cosworth engines haven't been in a consistent race winning team since 1994)

My concern for Cosworth is the number of customers they have to look after in their first year back. I can see that being able to fund the endeavour across 5 teams economically makes some sense but I think if this season's engine allocation continues into 2010 they need to build 80 engines.

For Williams, I see good in the old, experienced driver paired with an exciting new talent, makes good sense. Rubens probably sees it as a twilight opportunity, and one at a team with enormous history he will really respect. If he can get on with the blunt and at times abrasive Patrick Head he could make an impact.

Economics will be still a challenge for Williams. It will mean they will continue to fill senior positions from within and not bring in a depth of knowledge from other teams. 2009 may prove to be their high water mark of the 21st century but I hope not. They are my sentimental favourite side today (never thought I would say that back in the nineties) but there is a missing piece in the puzzle high up in the team. The old partnership of Francis and Patrick needs to find someone truly great to lift them to genuine contenders.



#14 red stick

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 22:16

I get the feeling that Rubens likes to be cuddled a bit, and Williams isn't a cuddly F1 team...


:up:

Not sure about his skills as a development driver either. Not saying he's bad at it, but when has he really been primarily responsible for helping develop a car since Stewart?

#15 J-Raid

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 22:24

So let's discuss next years Williams.

How will the new car be? What about the two drivers? The Cosworth engine?

Should make for a pretty exciting season for the Williams team.

:up:


I genuinely don't know, nor does anyone at this forum, unless they work at Grove. No way we can get to know anything about the car itself, and we can only speculate a bit about the Cosworth engine.

I can understand some people trying to survive off season, and next year's car threads seem their way. I prefer to lay back and disconnect :cool:

My 2cents and sorry to be so harsh, but I think some people over-speculate...That said I think I'll have my take...




...nah, just joking, I prefer to hear you instead ;)

#16 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 22:26

Bloomin eck am I the only FW31 regular in this thread? :lol:

#17 Jambo

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 22:31

Sometimes we lurk....

Rock on the FW32 and another jump in performance.

Welcome Nico2 and Rubi.

HULK and BARRI FTW!!!

#18 DFV

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 22:36

I genuinely don't know, nor does anyone at this forum, unless they work at Grove. No way we can get to know anything about the car itself, and we can only speculate a bit about the Cosworth engine.

I can understand some people trying to survive off season, and next year's car threads seem their way. I prefer to lay back and disconnect :cool:

My 2cents and sorry to be so harsh, but I think some people over-speculate...That said I think I'll have my take...




...nah, just joking, I prefer to hear you instead ;)


Well, that's what discussion forums are about isn't it. If you could only post facts that you have directly from the teams I guess that 90% of the posts on here would not have happened...

There is some info available on the Cosworth (but not very much in the UK media it seems). What's wrong with a bit of speculation and guessing about next season. If you don't want to speculate, then why post on this thread???

#19 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 22:38

Sometimes we lurk....

Rock on the FW32 and another jump in performance.

Welcome Nico2 and Rubi.

HULK and BARRI FTW!!!



Is it wrong that I still want to shout KAZ FTW?

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#20 Jambo

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 22:44

Is it wrong that I still want to shout KAZ FTW?


Not at all, I do too...

One last time eh?

NAKA FTW!

#21 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 22:51

Not at all, I do too...

One last time eh?

NAKA FTW!


If he is in F1 ever again...

#22 Mauseri

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 22:55

I think Williams secured a positive driver lineup considering the fact that their car is expected to be mid field quality. Barrichello can keep the car on the ball bark where it belongs while Hulkenberg learns the ropes and hopefully starts beating Barrichello sooner than later.

#23 Jambo

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 22:55

I really doubt it, maybe the younder brother? Seems to be doing well in the UK at the moment?

#24 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 22:57

I really doubt it, maybe the younder brother? Seems to be doing well in the UK at the moment?


Daisuke was in this seasons British F3.

#25 Jambo

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 23:00

I reckon he may be the only way to see a Nakajima in F1 again. Also with no Honda and Toyota being, well, uncertain in their future it might be unlikely for a good while.

But I suppose we should look forward!

Hopefully the positive news about the Cossie will turn out to be true and the Hulk will manage not to drop the car on day one :p

#26 Slartibartfast

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Posted 02 November 2009 - 23:00

Is it wrong that I still want to shout KAZ FTW?


Yup! It should be "C'mon our Nige!"

Showing my age. When I hear the name 'Cosworth' I think 'DFV' (and I suspect at least one other member here does the same) and winning engines rather than the more recent ones. I don't know whether the Cosworth will be a good engine or not, but a lot of teams will be using it which limits the benefit if it is good (and spreads the harm if it isn't).

I am pleased that Barrichello will be in F1 next year, he is one of my favourite drivers. I hope Williams works out for him, but I'm not sure they have the best environment for a driver of his temperament. Sir Frank may have the better side of the deal, there aren't many drivers with Barrichello's experience, set-up ability and speed and are also team players (that's not meant in a derogatory way). I think he is the best choice to pair with a rookie, he will be willing to help his team-mate rather than take advantage of the rookie's inexperience to make himself look better.

#27 slideways

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 01:45

:up:

Not sure about his skills as a development driver either. Not saying he's bad at it, but when has he really been primarily responsible for helping develop a car since Stewart?


In the BBC forum, Eddie, DC and Brundle all commented that Jenson was reliant on Rubens' setups, and discussed how good he's been at feedback and setup work over the years.

#28 red stick

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 05:03

In the BBC forum, Eddie, DC and Brundle all commented that Jenson was reliant on Rubens' setups, and discussed how good he's been at feedback and setup work over the years.


Good to know. Wasn't sure about the Honda/Brawn years--I was thinking of Ferrari.

#29 Nustang70

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 05:11

IMO they've already used up their ace card and thats the Double Diffuser. In that area they can only refine and it wont be a quantum leap like the other teams, who had to do botch job Double/tripple diffusers. The Cosworth engine including ease of installation and fuel consumption, is also a unknown. Are Williams going to go down the Brawn or Red Bull route, in how the car will look? With an increase in fuel to be carried, I'm sure the car will be lengthened. With design regulations set and all the teams knowing what is and isn't allowed, Williams doesn't have the biggest scope for improvement IMO. All the cars that started with KERS and never incorporated a DD, will be ahead IMO.



is the double decker diffuser legal next year?

#30 Little Leaf

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 05:53

I am hopeful of another jump in performance as we witnessed this season over last (although points tables can be mis-leading, Nico dropped the ball when he had a good car in Singapore etc).

Much happier with the driver line-up for next year over this years' pairing. Would have liked to see Nico stay but I think the time has come for him and Williams to move on. Will be interesting to see how he gets on against Button.

I am disappointed that there will be no KERS next year, and hence no flywheel system. I disagree with those saying that the non DDD teams will automatically jump ahead, although I think McLaren and Ferrari will be much stronger (no surprise there...)

Hope the Cosworth proves to be as good as the 2006 engine was, hopefully Williams can install it better this time!

#31 KiwiF1

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 07:36

Great driver pairing. Many times this season Button used Barrichello's car set up because he couldn't find a good one. I think Brawn went for Rubens at the beginning of 2009 because Ross new he needed a driver who could give good technical feedback in those few weeks of testing that they had available, I might be wrong but I don't think developing a car is one of Button's strong points.

I was at first concerned that the Cosworth has been picked, but after a bit more thought the team know what they will be getting, from memory the majority of the failures in 2006 were because of installation and not the engine, so this time the team should do a much better job.

The team is lean and not spewing money needlessly, lets hope the put the money in the right areas and hope that they can continue development during the year, they kept up this year so lets hope.

#32 DFV

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Posted 03 November 2009 - 08:15

I was at first concerned that the Cosworth has been picked, but after a bit more thought the team know what they will be getting, from memory the majority of the failures in 2006 were because of installation and not the engine, so this time the team should do a much better job.


To follow this up, there was only one engine failure from Cosworth in 2006 (Big end bearing failed). The rest of the technical DNF's was car related like gearbox and hydraulics etc.

Edited by DFV, 03 November 2009 - 08:32.


#33 Little Leaf

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 08:29

The team is lean and not spewing money needlessly, lets hope the put the money in the right areas and hope that they can continue development during the year, they kept up this year so lets hope.


The team did a much better job of keeping up development than in previous years, as you point out

#34 roadie

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 12:00

Aero efficiency is going to be very important next year, as the drag produced by the car will have a noticeable effect on fuel consumption. The heat rejection from the Cosworth will also influence how the cooling effects the car's aero. Obviously the FW31 was poor on tracks where low drag and top speed was important, so I wonder what differences we'll see in car shape next season?

#35 Hippo

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Posted 04 November 2009 - 12:08

If the Cosworth will indeed be the most powerful unit and the car is about as good as the FW31 was, then it should be a good qualifier. Remember, that qualifying will be on fumes again, so fuel consumption wont be an issue there.

#36 Beatrix

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 17:24

How does everyone think the F2 arrangement is benefitting Williams? Is Andy Soucek good enough to be testing the Williams after winning the championship this year?

Williams to update F2 Car for 2010

Also who will be the teams test driver next season? I assume Soucek is in with a shot, is Dani Clos still around?

#37 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 05 November 2009 - 23:12

How does everyone think the F2 arrangement is benefitting Williams? Is Andy Soucek good enough to be testing the Williams after winning the championship this year?


Means they have another driver to put out in the post season tests without paying him to get extra testing miles done.

#38 maccaFTW

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 02:16

We have seen that past succes doesn't mean succes in F1. ( Kobayashi vs Grosjean )


Don't compare Hulkenberg and Grosjean.

Grosjean has been a hack since the beginning of his GP2 career, only finding limited success against weak fields. He's ragged as hell and committed plenty of errors in GP2, throwing away a number of great opportunities for victories and top finishes with silly driving.

Hulkenberg not only showed to be much faster than Grosjean, but smarter and smoother, as well. He's miles ahead of Grosjean as a young driver. He stepped right into GP2 and grabbed it by the balls, whereas Grosjean was all over the place and looked downright foolish at times.

Hulkenberg has the talent to be at Hamilton/Vettel level. The key is going to be getting accustomed to F1 and eventually putting it all together. He's definitely got the right manager (Weber).

#39 paulogman

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 02:25

hope they produce a race winning car, but more than likely they will be an also ran again

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#40 KWSN - DSM

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 08:14

...

I get the feeling that Rubens likes to be cuddled a bit, and Williams isn't a cuddly F1 team...


Brilliantly put.

It is Rubens and Williams in a nutshell.

If they manage a car which can be in the points from the first couple of races, and Rubens is the one getting them. Then they will have a good season, Rubens will thrive of the adulation he will get then, and produce at his 'a' level.

Nico is excused, as long as he does not look out of depth.

If they do not get a good start, then we will have the pouting whining Rubens, and that will not go over well with Patrick and Frank.

I expect that they over the 2010 season will be about where they were this season, but with a team of drivers who can get it in the points, rather than only 1. They will at minimum be better than 3 of the 4 new teams, Toro Rosso and Force India.

:cool:

#41 tormave

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 08:56

My concern for Cosworth is the number of customers they have to look after in their first year back. I can see that being able to fund the endeavour across 5 teams economically makes some sense but I think if this season's engine allocation continues into 2010 they need to build 80 engines.

Is that really a lot? Back when we had separate testing teams and no limits on the number of engines per season nor weekend I should think just one team went through more engines than 80 per season. You had a an engine for free practice sessions, one only for qualifying and one for the race plus at least one spare every weekend. Engines were built so that they would only last a single race distance with some small safety margin left to play with. At the same time you could have the test team pound out laps with two cars. My understanding is that while the FP engines were typically used units from previous weekends, the qually and race engines were always new.

#42 Lord Snooty

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 09:29

Brilliantly put.

It is Rubens and Williams in a nutshell.

If they manage a car which can be in the points from the first couple of races, and Rubens is the one getting them. Then they will have a good season, Rubens will thrive of the adulation he will get then, and produce at his 'a' level.

Nico is excused, as long as he does not look out of depth.

If they do not get a good start, then we will have the pouting whining Rubens, and that will not go over well with Patrick and Frank.

I expect that they over the 2010 season will be about where they were this season, but with a team of drivers who can get it in the points, rather than only 1. They will at minimum be better than 3 of the 4 new teams, Toro Rosso and Force India.

:cool:



Slightly harsh on Ruby who has suffered from the "wishing to be treated equal" syndrome in his last couple of teams (Ferrari & Brawn / Honda); with Williams he will be the effective number 1 (tho' thats not really Williams' style) and, allied to Williams' no nonsense approach to racing, shouldn't have that concern.

I think he'll be fine and I think the Hulk will appreciate his experience and input.

I'm genuinely looking forward to next season (being an optimist at heart) and think we'll do better than for some time.

I'm even pretty sanguine about the cossies; for a start, I don't think they'll be supplying 5 teams as USF1 won't be there and, of all the F1 engine manufacturers, Cosworth are the only one with any real experience of supplying half a dozen teams at one go (albeit a few years ago).

No, I think the FW32 with Ruby & the Hulk will be good

:up:

#43 crashgate

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 09:31

So let's discuss next years Williams.

How will the new car be? What about the two drivers? The Cosworth engine?

Should make for a pretty exciting season for the Williams team.

:up:


for years now, williams is an also ran

nothinfg will change in 2010

#44 egg1980

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 09:34

My feeling is that Williams ended the season as competitively as they started it, so there is no reason why they can't hold their own in terms of development during the closed season (as they have during the race season).
I'm not expecting them to finish any higher (as high at the very most) in the drivers championship, but a step forward in the constructors should be achievable since they will have two drivers scoring points for them for a change.

Top 10 for the drivers championship and top 5 in the constructors.

#45 wewantourdarbyback

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 09:35

Slightly harsh on Ruby who has suffered from the "wishing to be treated equal" syndrome in his last couple of teams (Ferrari & Brawn / Honda); with Williams he will be the effective number 1


He'll be number 1 till the Hulk gets up to speed, then we'll see how much he really enjoys proper equal status as there's no chance of Williams changing their 30 year old equality policy.

#46 Lord Snooty

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 09:37

for years now, williams is an also ran

nothinfg will change in 2010



:stoned:

oh dear

someone p*ssed in your porridge this morning then?



#47 Lord Snooty

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 09:42

He'll be number 1 till the Hulk gets up to speed, then we'll see how much he really enjoys proper equal status as there's no chance of Williams changing their 30 year old equality policy.



:)

I like this post as it sums up so much of what I'm looking forward to next season with Williams

1. Ruby doing well with his experience

2. Nico progressing through talent

3. Two drivers in equal cars racing each other and the other teams


Here's hoping the FW32 builds on and takes forward what we had with the FW31

:up:

#48 EVO2

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 09:43

I've always had a soft spot for Williams - I used to live a few miles away from Frank's unit in Slough and Howden Ganley used to live next door to my wife when he drove for the team.

When they've been free to chose their own drivers, Frank and Patrick have always been very good at getting a lot of performance for little money : Rosberg is a typical example in recent years. For next season they have the perfect combination - A new driver to develop and the most experienced guy on the grid with proven ability to set up the car ( Jenson will miss that ).

The 2009 car was fast and in Ruben's hands would surely have been worth as podium or two, maybe even a win on the right day. Inexperience and a few reliability issues meant it didn't happen.

Could it be that Frank ditched the Toyota engine early to free up his driver choice for 2010 ?

If Nico delivers the kind of performance he showed in GP2, and the car is a good step forward from this year's model, the Williams driver line up will surely be the most efficient on the grid on the basis of points earned for dollars spent.

As for the engine, with so many teams using it, the FIA will have to allow it to be developed until it matches the Mercedes and Ferrari unit on power. Whether it can deliver on fuel consumption we will have to see but presumably Cosworth have recruited or retained some of the best engineers in the business and they should be able to become competitive in this respect as well.

Nothing would please me more than to see Williams back on the top step.

#49 DFV

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 09:57

As for the engine, with so many teams using it, the FIA will have to allow it to be developed until it matches the Mercedes and Ferrari unit on power. Whether it can deliver on fuel consumption we will have to see but presumably Cosworth have recruited or retained some of the best engineers in the business and they should be able to become competitive in this respect as well.


Reportedly the Cosworth is allready 15HP up on the Merc...

#50 pippin

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Posted 06 November 2009 - 10:09

In recent years I've found Williams a frustrating team. They've been around a long time and have very experienced people and have even started the season strong on a few occasions yet are never able to build on that. Sometimes I think they've made bad driver choices too, which kinda riles me a bit. They shouldn't have dumped Damon Hill or discarded Jenson Button (which I bet they regret now). Nevertheless I see a Rubens/Hulkenberg partnership as a good pairing (a good blend of youth and experience).

I think it will take Rubens a little time to get up to speed at the team. Also despite what some people may think, I think Rubens is gonna miss Brawn and Jenson more than he realises right now. The way that the team (Ross Brawn in particular) and Jenson handled things when the pressure/tension was at its height within the team was exceptional. He won't find it as easy at Williams in that respect. I'm also expecting good things from Hulkenberg, but again its going to take time.

Williams have all the ingredients to be competitive next year, so I expect them to be a good midfield team, but I'm not sure they'll start as strong as this year.