5223 replies to this topic

[Anja]

 

A lot of discussion still going on in the 2018 Renault thread, mostly concerning 2019. So we might as well get this going already, launch date was enough for the McLaren gang to create a new thread so why should we be any worse? 

 

Come along for all the arguments about how Renault will or will not close the gap to top teams and stay to cheer the success or wallow in despair as the season unfolds. 

[rootten]

Obviously there are optimistic noises about gains on the engine side, which can make for an exciting year

 

I personally will be following how the below stories will develop over the next year, with a great interest:

 

- How will Renaul fare agianst McLaren? I think Renault should have it in the bag, giving that McLaren are just at the beggining of their restructurizing process.

- How well will be RBR doing? Are they going to challenge for the WDC right from the start? I think not

- Will the gap to the Mercedes be significantly reduced? I hope so.

- How will Vettel cope with Leclerc and who will be quicker. That's not related to current topic but I'm super interested to see how this will go

Edited by rootten, 11 January 2019 - 10:50.

[Alburaq]

Will they add white to the livery? https://shop.renault...pour-homme.html

 

Edited by Alburaq, 11 January 2019 - 11:49.

[Neno]

Wouldnt be bad choice. I personally feel current scheme needs variety. Car can sometime look too black from certain angles. Specially the rear. If done right car could look amazing, but also bad. White with yellow and black must be done right way. 

Edited by Neno, 11 January 2019 - 11:55.

[DILLIGAF]

Maybe they're going back to the early 80's by adding some white.

https://encrypted-tb...KU7ZhYaH4VWf7N1

Edited by DILLIGAF, 11 January 2019 - 11:58.

[Ivanhoe]

Will they add white to the livery?

Would be nice. Back to the eighties.

Edit: DILLGAF beat me to it :-)

Edited by Ivanhoe, 11 January 2019 - 12:03.

[Neno]

Maybe they're going back to the early 80's by adding some white.

https://encrypted-tb...KU7ZhYaH4VWf7N1

now this is best example why white can look bad if not done right. this on other hand are two examples of looking nice

https://cdn-6.motors...-team-re60b.jpg

http://c1.staticflic...4191f6121_b.jpg

Edited by Neno, 11 January 2019 - 12:02.

[Ivanhoe]

now this is best example why white can look bad if not done right. this on other hand are two examples of looking nice
https://cdn-6.motors...-team-re60b.jpg
http://c1.staticflic...4191f6121_b.jpg

Matter of taste, don’t really like the livery of the RE60

Edited by Ivanhoe, 11 January 2019 - 12:07.

[phrank]

They should go back to the RS16 livery being all yellow, if you ask me, the black car of the last season looked horrible and anonymous.

[Alburaq]

A good excuse to post some cool old pics 

[Alburaq]

The 2018 "black" livery was very popular and well received though.

[Alburaq]

Those shirts remind me of this pic

Edited by Alburaq, 11 January 2019 - 12:24.

[phrank]

The 2018 "black" livery was very popular and well received though.

Was it? Its strange to me for a team that keeps referring to themselves as being 'yellow' to paint they car predominantly black. I love those pictures with the old liveries, everybody can see at a glance those are Renaults

[Francesc]

Beautiful cab and trailer Alburaq.

[Neno]

Was it? Its strange to me for a team that keeps referring to themselves as being 'yellow' to paint they car predominantly black. I love those pictures with the old liveries, everybody can see at a glance those are Renaults

Car looked too black for being called distinct "yellow" car. It was yellow only from certain angles, but if camera was position from bird perspective or from rear view it was predominantly black car. Balance wasnt right. If they are introducing white it could help a balance and even better livery design. 

Edited by Neno, 11 January 2019 - 17:11.

[shonguiz]

This year, no more ****ing around. Anything less than clear number 4 and slashed time gap at the end of the season will be a failure.

[goldenboy]

Would be nice. Back to the eighties.

Edit: DILLGAF beat me to it :-)

I liiiiike it

[DILLIGAF]

Matter of taste, don’t really like the livery of the RE60

Agree it's a matter of taste Ivanhoe. Personally I loved the RE50. Showing my age but I thought it was really nice.

Edited by DILLIGAF, 12 January 2019 - 09:21.

[DutchQuicksilver]

I doubt they can close a one to one and a half second gap to the three front runners in only one winter. The regulation changes are too small for that. But anything less than a clear fourth will be a disappointment.

[MortenF1]

Close it I dont think anyone is expecting. Simply not realistic but haven’t Renault said they aim to halve the gap?

[V8 Fireworks]

Wouldnt be bad choice. I personally feel current scheme needs variety. Car can sometime look too black from certain angles. Specially the rear. If done right car could look amazing, but also bad. White with yellow and black must be done right way. 

 

Renault are unique, in that they always seemed to have a new livery every season.  Some sleek designs, others a bit fussy.

 

I hope their 2019 livery looks something like this. 

 

 

[V8 Fireworks]

Was it? Its strange to me for a team that keeps referring to themselves as being 'yellow' to paint they car predominantly black.

 

Meanwhile their new factory is mostly painted white!     I wonder why they didn't splash out on yellow paint all over?

 

[phrank]

Renault are unique, in that they always seemed to have a new livery every season.  Some sleek designs, others a bit fussy.

 

I hope their 2019 livery looks something like this. 

 

 

 

I loved the Red Team/Blue Team what they had going on in that era.

 

@V8 Indeed, Renault seems to be confused and inconsistent about their branding

[DILLIGAF]

Close it I dont think anyone is expecting. Simply not realistic but haven’t Renault said they aim to halve the gap?

Yep. IIRC they're looking to halve the gap in qualy, not get lapped during races and maintain 4th in the constructors in 2019.

[Alburaq]

Yes phrank, the 2018 livery won/finished on the podium in many "best livery" polls I saw.
Wasnt my favorite Renault livery though.


Full yellow


Some infos/hints about the 2019 car (Abiteboul in march 2018)

 

"I do believe that this car is that of a team under construction. We did not fully express ourselves, we did not put all our ideas, for lack of time rather than means. I give you a specific example: when Pete Machin (aero manager) joined us last year, he obviously observed the car 2017, then the changes we had planned. Then he looked very quickly at the car of 2018 and immediately he spotted specific items that were unsuitable. And among them, some had already been fixed, the calculations were already frozen. Indeed, we started in October 2016, because the construction programs of an F1 are so complex today that we are forced to work earlier and earlier. There are, in fact, elements that are not modifiable en route. Second example: the gearbox. This is our first carbon. We have not been able to put all the innovations that are available to us as we speak, these innovations which McLaren has"[/size]
 
"I think it's hard for us in winter to produce a car that lives up to our expectations for the start of the season and there's a reason for that, but I'm sure we'll be able to make progress in this area as well. coming years."
"The investments and extension of our infrastructures are made, we have completed the part dedicated to engineering and design and we are doing the electronics before moving on to production."
"We are far behind in terms of production and we have difficulties developing a car that is immediately at the level of our expectations.One of the reasons for this is at the level of our production infrastructure, we are slower. "
"The problem is that we have to produce a car with this level of sophistication, and we need a very integrated model, not like Force India or Haas, which, without being controversial, is a different model. to become a high-tech team, and we need integrated development, which takes time to build space, infrastructure, and the world, and that will be our next step. "
"Right now, we're focused on engineering, like the aero, the performance of our car, the simulator, all of that is done or going to be done, and then we'll get into the production unit to reduce production time to reach our ambitions, especially given the complexity of modern F1 cars. "

Edited by Alburaq, 13 January 2019 - 08:07.

[dn12005]

I'm still fairly new to the world of F1, so I don't know a lot.  My question for those that are more versed, what happens to the Renault mechanics that worked the Red Bull garage?

[A3]

I'm still fairly new to the world of F1, so I don't know a lot.  My question for those that are more versed, what happens to the Renault mechanics that worked the Red Bull garage?

Interesting question. Don't know if they were just working solely for Red Bull or that they worked as some sort of installation team that were working with both McLaren and Red Bull.

[Ragnar668]

Maybe Sparky can tell us?

[Anja]

Interesting question. Don't know if they were just working solely for Red Bull or that they worked as some sort of installation team that were working with both McLaren and Red Bull.

 

As far as I know the engine mechanics are assigned to customer teams on permanent basis. They are constantly overlooking everything concerning the engine so they have to be there all the time. The guys who were working with Red Bull will probably just join the crews at the works team and McLaren, or the factory personnel. 

[FordFiesta]

The second one is kinda "McLaren style". The fourth one is ok.

[Thatfastguy]

Renault are unique, in that they always seemed to have a new livery every season.  Some sleek designs, others a bit fussy.

 

I hope their 2019 livery looks something like this. 

 

 

 

 

Really digging this livery!

[Alburaq]

Do the new rules increase Renault's chances?
F1 cars will look different in 2019 owing to aerodynamic rule changes aimed at increasing overtaking opportunities and Budkowski believes there is a window of opportunity for the midfield teams to close up on the Big Three. "They are simplifying the cars quite a lot so we've lost quite a lot of performance initially - I believe that's the case for everybody - but we have regained a chunk of this performance," said Budkowski. "In terms of mixing the playing field, we feel that the top teams will have lost more than us, probably, by definition because they were better, more optimised and had extracted more performance from the aerodynamic platform they had. "But they are also better equipped to regain it quicker because they have bigger structures, more resource and they had the understanding and experience that allowed them to reach that level of optimisation."

https://www.skysport...aniel-ricciardo

 

 

It is reassuring: Renault has already passed the obligatory FIA crash test with the new monocoque and does not need to fear interference from this side.

Budkowski is also optimistic about the V6 hybrid drive and expects great progress. In terms of performance, it was already taken care of, in terms of reliability would be fine tuning. 

https://www.motorspo...r-auto-19012406

Edited by Alburaq, 25 January 2019 - 07:06.

[ernestomodena]

The news of a total new car could bring up a lot of problems. Will it be a problem on the engine, gearbox, software, chassis or aero side. If it's not really clicking on track like the computer models suggesting they could be searching the whole year to find the problem.

 

I thought the car from last year was not that bad.

[eREr]

The news of a total new car could bring up a lot of problems. Will it be a problem on the engine, gearbox, software, chassis or aero side. If it's not really clicking on track like the computer models suggesting they could be searching the whole year to find the problem.

 

I thought the car from last year was not that bad.

 

It was not bad. Just mediocre. If you want to catch up, you have to change lots of things, maybe everything. This is of course a risk, but they have proper tools to avoid very nasty situations. Anyway I wouldn't mind if the car is fragile while it seems to be competitive with the top3.

 

What is sure that they try to do everything to catch the top teams:

https://www.autospor...-power-steering

Edited by eREr, 25 January 2019 - 13:57.

[Alburaq]

Please not an RS.17C again.

The news of a total new car could bring up a lot of problems.

Or it can solve a lot of the 2017-2018 problems : )

 

2018 gearbox casing was new (carbon fiber) as well as the internals, and the suspensions too... and they were much more reliable and competitive... 

 
 

Edited by Alburaq, 25 January 2019 - 14:01.

[Laster]

It could bring a lot of problems, but they do need to go for it if they want to make progress to those at the top. With so much change done to the front wings it was probably good for them to go for a wholesale change this year and then go for evolution in 2020. Had their car been an evolution of 2018 then it would likely have been yet another evolution in 2020 (which will have been four years of evolving design) before the new rules come in for 2021.

2018 their car was good enough for fourth in the constructors, even then it wasn’t cemented fourth, and it was an evolution of the 2017 design. In both seasons the gap to the leaders was about 1.5, so while there was progress relative to the midfield, there wasn’t any to the front. Taking the risk of a wholesale change seems like the best way to go, they can’t keep evolving a design hoping it’ll eventually develop faster than everyone, if there’s no clear progress to the front they have to go for something new and take the risks.

[rootten]

The news of a total new car could bring up a lot of problems. Will it be a problem on the engine, gearbox, software, chassis or aero side. If it's not really clicking on track like the computer models suggesting they could be searching the whole year to find the problem.

 

I thought the car from last year was not that bad.

 

last year's car was an old design pushed to the limits, polished year over a year

 

it's about time to push forward with new design

 

you couldn't have squeezed much more from the old design 

[Neno]

The news of a total new car could bring up a lot of problems. Will it be a problem on the engine, gearbox, software, chassis or aero side. If it's not really clicking on track like the computer models suggesting they could be searching the whole year to find the problem.

 

I thought the car from last year was not that bad.

RS 18 was f disgrace of the car.  I'll take new car design any day over old design. 

Edited by Neno, 25 January 2019 - 14:13.

[DILLIGAF]

It was not bad. Just mediocre. If you want to catch up, you have to change lots of things, maybe everything. This is of course a risk, but they have proper tools to avoid very nasty situations. Anyway I wouldn't mind if the car is fragile while it seems to be competitive with the top3.

 

What is sure that they try to do everything to catch the top teams:

https://www.autospor...-power-steering

 

Agree they had to make major changes if they hope to compete with the top 3.  

 

I'll be pissed off if Dan has to retire at Melbourne because of a power steering failure though.   

[Reddington]

I would love to see a retro livery on the Renault. More yellow, a bit of white. The car is just too black for my liking the past years.

[Alburaq]

RS.19 wont necessarily be a less reliable chassis even if "it's fully new bar the power steering" (thanks Autosport) because:
-This team has built a fully new gearbox in 2018 and despite that it was much more reliable than its predecessors. That GB also hosted new rear (and remote front) suspension systems, and I dont recall Renault having many DNF for faulty hydraulics or transmissions or any 5 grid penalties. In fact they had 0 chassis DNF AFAIR. That car also had a new and smaller cooling system...
-I dont think Renault would willingly scarify reliability for performance, a team like RB would do that but manufacturers usually dont
-RS.19 probably had a long lead time. RS.18 wasn't the teams only main focus, Prost and Budkowski did confirm that*
-the infrastructures, the tools, the manpower have improved (there is a new gbox test bench for example, that explains point 1), more parts are built and quality-controlled in house which should speed up the whole process etc
-reliability has improved in every season (RS.17 was also completely new - bar the driver's drinking system?) compared to 2016 
 
Yes Renault needs a new car, especially on the aerodynamic side, the bodywork. Teams like Renault or Mclaren might have reached the limits of their concept while teams like Ferrari or RB managed to push the limits further thanks to that new kind of sidepods for example. So I hope those thick and outdated sidepods will be gone   .
Viry and Enstone did a beautiful work on the internals, redesigning the monocoque's rear bulkhead and the engine's manifold for the center-line cooling system etc. I hope they'll go another step and integrate a water-air intercooler in that system this time, that would improve the packaging and the aero (end the PU?) further. 
The best PUs and the best teams use a water-air charge air system hidden behind the monocoque and placed close t the engine, after all. It has many aero and engine benefits. 
 
*https://forums.autos...rs18/?p=8622991

Edited by Alburaq, 26 January 2019 - 09:24.

[eREr]

I would love to see a retro livery on the Renault. More yellow, a bit of white. The car is just too black for my liking the past years.

If the twitter gif about Ric's no. 3 is from the nose, then it will be even darker. This section was yellow in 2018, now it is black.

But if it is from the engine cover, then who knows.

[A3]

If the twitter gif about Ric's no. 3 is from the nose, then it will be even darker. This section was yellow in 2018, now it is black.

But if it is from the engine cover, then who knows.

Couldn't it just be from new, specifically Ric/Renault related merchandise?

[ernestomodena]

RS.19 wont necessarily be a less reliable chassis even if "it's fully new bar the power steering" (thanks Autosport) because:
-This team has built a fully new gearbox in 2018 and despite that it was much more reliable than its predecessors. That GB also hosted new rear (and remote front) suspension systems, and I dont recall Renault having many DNF for faulty hydraulics or transmissions or any 5 grid penalties. In fact they had 0 chassis DNF AFAIR. That car also had a new and smaller cooling system...
-I dont think Renault would willingly scarify reliability for performance, a team like RB would do that but manufacturers usually dont
-RS.19 probably had a long lead time. RS.18 wasn't the teams only main focus, Prost and Budkowski did confirm that*
-the infrastructures, the tools, the manpower have improved (there is a new gbox test bench for example, that explains point 1), more parts are built and quality-controlled in house which should speed up the whole process etc
-reliability has improved in every season (RS.17 was also completely new - bar the driver's drinking system?) compared to 2016 
 
Yes Renault needs a new car, especially on the aerodynamic side, the bodywork. Teams like Renault or Mclaren might have reached the limits of their concept while teams like Ferrari or RB managed to push the limits further thanks to that new kind of sidepods for example. So I hope those thick and outdated sidepods will be gone   .
Viry and Enstone did a beautiful work on the internals, redesigning the monocoque's rear bulkhead and the engine's manifold for the center-line cooling system etc. I hope they'll go another step and integrate a water-air intercooler in that system this time, that would improve the packaging and the aero (end the PU?) further. 
The best PUs and the best teams use a water-air charge air system hidden behind the monocoque and placed close t the engine, after all. It has many aero and engine benefits. 
 
*https://forums.autos...rs18/?p=8622991

 

So let's hope that they really did there job then. Still when something is completly new with as well so many new people working on it a small mistake could get in.

[goldenboy]

Honestly my fave Renault colours are from Alonsos title reign. That was a beeeeautiful car.

[Gary Davies]

During and post the period of Red Bull running Renault engines, that charming fellow Marko found himself unable to resist putting the boot into Renault, over and over. And recently, natürlich, he's crowing that Honda is ahead of Renault. Whilst I have nothing but respect for Honda, oh how I hope that the new season Renault power train will be a huge improvement in terms of both power and reliability and knocks Red Bull out of the park.  

Edited by Gary Davies, 30 January 2019 - 12:10.

[DILLIGAF]

Budkowski on aero changes for 2019: 

 

https://www.motorspo...4329351/?nrt=54

 

Unlike Cyril, Marcin is realistic about Renault's ability to close the gap to the top 3:

 

“My feeling is that probably you will have closed the gap a little bit between the top teams and the midfield, because the regulations are more restrictive than they were before. There is less available performance.”

 

“Realistically if you look at the situation as it was last year, the gaps, recovering 1.5 seconds of performance over one winter is nearly impossible,” he said.

[Neno]

Budkowski on aero changes for 2019: 

 

https://www.motorspo...4329351/?nrt=54

 

Unlike Cyril, Marcin is realistic about Renault's ability to close the gap to the top 3:

 

“My feeling is that probably you will have closed the gap a little bit between the top teams and the midfield, because the regulations are more restrictive than they were before. There is less available performance.”

 

“Realistically if you look at the situation as it was last year, the gaps, recovering 1.5 seconds of performance over one winter is nearly impossible,” he said.

it is if you made bad car. RS18 was bad car. Now make good one. 

[dn12005]

RF1 said to be running a new test bench:  https://fr.motorspor...tillon/4328541/

[gowebber]

RF1 said to be running a new test bench:  https://fr.motorspor...tillon/4328541/

 

Nice find. Like the sound of this too

 

"Thanks to this new tool, whose key word will be modularity, Renault will be able to test not only a power unit but also complete powertrains (engine + gearbox), whether they are atmospheric, turbocharged or electric"