5102 replies to this topic

[A3]

So here it is.



As per the forum policy no driver vs driver thread anymore, but here we can talk about the drivers, team members etc. We are allowed to keep score.

So, for 2019 we have the following battles:

Max vs Pierre:



And as I am sure this battle will continue in 2019.
Horners vs Abiteboul:



Carry on.

[Thatfastguy]

Well a team principal battle against Dopey the Clown isn’t that hard to win. Congratulations Christian Horner! Now lets wait and see how long it takes all our new Renault friends to find this topic ;)

[enjoyingRBR]

Lets hope this thread will be more fun to read than the ones with ricciardo. I hope fellow max fans will be welcoming gasly fans and treat them with respect. All we can hope for is Gasly pushing max to the limit like ricciardo was capable of.

[SenorSjon]

TBH, I haven't seen many Gasly fans around? Not in the previous 2018 threads for Toro Rosso as well?

[taran]

Thatfastguy, on 15 Mar 2019 - 09:11, said:

Well a team principal battle against Dopey the Clown isn’t that hard to win. Congratulations Christian Horner! Now lets wait and see how long it takes all our new Renault friends to find this topic ;)

 

If the Honda is (much) better than Renault, I'd expect Horner to focus on Toto and Binotti and forget about Abiteboul.

And if the Honda is (much) worse than the Renault, I'd expect Horner to go after Honda.

 

Either way, the Horner vs. Abiteboul show will end......right?
 

[Maxioos]

enjoyingRBR, on 15 Mar 2019 - 09:15, said:

Lets hope this thread will be more fun to read than the ones with ricciardo. I hope fellow max fans will be welcoming gasly fans and treat them with respect. All we can hope for is Gasly pushing max to the limit like ricciardo was capable of.

 

I would like he could push Max some more and more often than Ricciardo was capable of.

[danstheman]

SenorSjon, on 15 Mar 2019 - 09:24, said:

TBH, I haven't seen many Gasly fans around? Not in the previous 2018 threads for Toro Rosso as well?

 

[Fredshje]

Maxioos, on 15 Mar 2019 - 09:42, said:

I would like he could push Max some more and more often than Ricciardo was capable of.

That's is not going to happen in the near future. Dan is one of the best of the grid, Gasly is not (at the moment). 

[Risil]

Gasly will pick up fans if he gives Verstappen a run for his money.

I don't believe we have many French members here but they're probably all in a French F1 forum somewhere, speaking French. If the preceding statement was inaccurate, bienvenue and I beg votre pardon.

[A3]

Risil, on 15 Mar 2019 - 10:20, said:

If the preceding statement was inaccurate, bienvenue and I beg votre pardon.

There weren't many Sainz fans in 2015 either, but there are always Max haters.

Edited by A3, 15 March 2019 - 10:25.

[Risil]

As for Red Bull, Verstappen is now in the position of team leader, which is a big responsibility for a 21-year-old. It'll be fascinating to see how he grows into the role.

[Requiem84]

Risil, on 15 Mar 2019 - 10:25, said:

As for Red Bull, Verstappen is now in the position of team leader, which is a big responsibility for a 21-year-old. It'll be fascinating to see how he grows into the role.

 

I'm happy he was paired with Ricciardo.

 

In one of the end seasons interviews he said he learned how important a good atmosphere within (your side of) the garage is because of Ricciardo. 

 

In terms of soft skills, Verstappen problaby had the best team mate to learn from in Ricciardo. Hopefully he'll be able to translate that into this year as 'team leader'. 

[A3]

Risil, on 15 Mar 2019 - 10:25, said:

As for Red Bull, Verstappen is now in the position of team leader, which is a big responsibility for a 21-year-old. It'll be fascinating to see how he grows into the role.

Yeah I noted how the yellow band on the roll hoop camera is now on Gasly's car. Max said earlier that he'd keep the yellow band so it was a bit confusing. Not that that declares team leader, but in a way it does.

Very curious about Gasly, hope he can handle it. I just hope Max has learned from last year's start of the season. He says he has, so here's hoping. If he can be as strong as the end of last year he'll be good and the team will rally behind him. Found it interesting how he talked about the Honda engine. Said it looked more like a real racing engine. When asked to clarify that comment, he said "I don't know, it's just the way it's finished. Things like the bolts and screws, they just look better." I am not aware of any other F1 drivers looking at engines like that.
I guess that's a result of tuning kart engines with his dad.

Edited by A3, 15 March 2019 - 10:44.

[Requiem84]

The devil is in the detail ;). 

 

I'm perfectly happy if he just plays it safe and goes for a P4 rather than risk everything for P3. Just score some solid points to stay in the hunt and capitalize when the car is stronger!

[Ragnar668]

A3, on 15 Mar 2019 - 10:31, said:

Yeah I noted how the yellow band on the roll hoop camera is now on Gasly's car. Max said earlier that he'd keep the yellow band so it was a bit confusing. Not that that declares team leader, but in a way it does.

 

I was wondering about that.
Is that a thing, "yellow band"  and you're somehow second driver?

[A3]

taran, on 15 Mar 2019 - 09:39, said:

Either way, the Horner vs. Abiteboul show will end......right?

Well, Abiteboul just complained about how strong Toro Rosso and other B teams are....

Quote

“Just look at Toro Rosso, who in my opinion are likely to be the team to beat as far as we’re concerned for the start of the season given where we are,” Abiteboul told Sky Sports F1.

“Toro Rosso had no technical director for most of last season. It’s very clear what went on.

“So we don’t even need a technical director to produce what is a very competitive car. For us that’s a problem.”

Let's see if it triggers a response from Horner.

[SenorSjon]

Ragnar668, on 15 Mar 2019 - 10:43, said:

I was wondering about that.
Is that a thing, "yellow band"  and you're somehow second driver?

 

It is in the FIA rules:

Quote

To help distinguish between a team’s two cars, the onboard cameras which sit on top of the main rollover structure are coloured differently. On the first car it must remain as it is supplied to the team (black) and on the second car it must be predominantly fluorescent yellow.

 

You could read first car = first driver, second car = second driver.

[Sunnny]

Risil, on 15 Mar 2019 - 10:20, said:

Gasly will pick up fans if he gives Verstappen a run for his money.

I don't believe we have many French members here but they're probably all in a French F1 forum somewhere, speaking French. If the preceding statement was inaccurate, bienvenue and I beg votre pardon.

 

 

I am half French. Does that count? 

[SenorSjon]

Don't know, the good or the bad part?

[A3]

Ragnar668, on 15 Mar 2019 - 10:43, said:

I was wondering about that.
Is that a thing, "yellow band"  and you're somehow second driver?

Officially not, but usually the "no2" driver has it. Bottas has it, Kimi had it at Ferrari and now Leclerc. Kimi now has the black one.

The funny thing is, last year at Renault Sainz had the yellow band and this year it's on Hulkenberg's car. Sainz now has the black one at McLaren.

Edited by A3, 15 March 2019 - 10:56.

[Requiem84]

A3, on 15 Mar 2019 - 10:46, said:

Well, Abiteboul just complained about how strong Toro Rosso and other B teams are....

Let's see if it triggers a response from Horner.

 

Funny, RB didn't even need an engine to get 4 wins last season ;). 

[DILLIGAF]

Risil, on 15 Mar 2019 - 10:25, said:

As for Red Bull, Verstappen is now in the position of team leader, which is a big responsibility for a 21-year-old. It'll be fascinating to see how he grows into the role.

 

Agreed. Verstappen will thrive as team leader if the car is quick enough. If the package is reliable I expect Max to clearly have the better of Gasly.

 

Gasly did a good job for TR with flashes of brilliance as well as the odd rookie mistake. He's quick but Max will be quicker imho.

[A3]

https://twitter.com/...498270304468992

Quote

There could be change chassis in Red Bull. Right now there are 3 chassis in the box. The affected car is the one of Verstappen. There would not be any type of penalty.

If true, I wonder if the replacement chassis is an updated one of that they replace it because of a problem.

Edited by A3, 15 March 2019 - 11:22.

[SenorSjon]

Are they breaking curfew at the first race already?

[V8 Fireworks]

SenorSjon, on 15 Mar 2019 - 09:24, said:

TBH, I haven't seen many Gasly fans around? Not in the previous 2018 threads for Toro Rosso as well?

 

Gasly is a fine driver.    

 

He seems a similar personality to Verstappen, and should perform superbly (and have some exciting hardnosed racer incidents      ).

[goldenboy]

Risil, on 15 Mar 2019 - 10:25, said:

As for Red Bull, Verstappen is now in the position of team leader, which is a big responsibility for a 21-year-old. It'll be fascinating to see how he grows into the role.

It's not something I would even think of really. Seems his father prepared him really well for F1 and he's a natural alpha kind of guy in his own right. I would guess 99% chance he will relish it and it will have a positive affect. He's almost a veteran now when you look at the grid! Crazy.. It's impressive.

Edited by goldenboy, 15 March 2019 - 11:46.

[Risil]

I've no doubt he believes he's the quickest driver in the world but I was thinking more about the soft skills of providing a focal point for the technical staff, inspiring confidence and giving the team a lift during the season's critical moments. I don't want to drag things off topic but while the difference in talent between Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton is not big, they have led their respective teams very differently over the years.

I suppose what I'm saying is that I roughly know how quick Verstappen is, and what he can do in a car. I believe he will find a way to succeed. But I have no idea what kind of leader he'll be.

[goldenboy]

Risil, on 15 Mar 2019 - 11:57, said:

I've no doubt he believes he's the quickest driver in the world but I was thinking more about the soft skills of providing a focal point for the technical staff, inspiring confidence and giving the team a lift during the season's critical moments. I don't want to drag things off topic but while the difference in talent between Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton is not big, they have led their respective teams very differently over the years.

I suppose what I'm saying is that I roughly know how quick Verstappen is, and what he can do in a car. I believe he will find a way to succeed. But I have no idea what kind of leader he'll be.

Ok, I misunderstood a little. Thought you meant how it may affect his performance. It always seemed like he and dan were very equal in that respect, maybe Dan a bit more flakey. So I personally think he will be ok with it, but it will still be interesting.

[Requiem84]

Risil, on 15 Mar 2019 - 11:57, said:

I've no doubt he believes he's the quickest driver in the world but I was thinking more about the soft skills of providing a focal point for the technical staff, inspiring confidence and giving the team a lift during the season's critical moments. I don't want to drag things off topic but while the difference in talent between Alonso, Vettel and Hamilton is not big, they have led their respective teams very differently over the years.

I suppose what I'm saying is that I roughly know how quick Verstappen is, and what he can do in a car. I believe he will find a way to succeed. But I have no idea what kind of leader he'll be.

 

Wise words, quoted for truth!

 

Personally I feel Verstappen is often to self-centered / self-focused. 

 

I said this before in another thread. When asked what the best feeling of a GP weekend was, he responded 'beating your teammate in qualifying'. I found that an odd response, as it only seems to relate to his personal victory in a battle that is less relevant than beating your other competitiors. It's a lot about ego with him. It is a strength, but definitely a big weakness as well.

 

If you look back at Schumacher, one of the reasons of his succes (imo) was that he was always protective of the team in case they messed up. He was the team in a sense. He made them they won together, but if things were bad he wouldn't put himself outside the team and say 'they messed up, but I did well so it's not my mistake'.

 

I really hope to see some interesting developments of Verstappen in this respect this year. 

[A3]

Requiem84, on 15 Mar 2019 - 12:06, said:

I said this before in another thread. When asked what the best feeling of a GP weekend was, he responded 'beating your teammate in qualifying'. I found that an odd response, as it only seems to relate to his personal victory in a battle that is less relevant than beating your other competitiors. It's a lot about ego with him. It is a strength, but definitely a big weakness as well.

I don't think it's about ego, it's about always extracting the most from himself. I relate comments about ego as the need to feel important, but maybe my English is not good enough. If your car is third fastest and you know you can't get pole or win the race, the best you can do is beat your team mate. As he is the only one driving the same car.
There's a promotional video of his personal sponsor Exact on youtube he says the following: "I always aim high. When I win a race or end up on the podium, in certain circumstances of course I am very happy with that. But that is how I am, things are never perfect." This can be explained in a negative way, but he needs to find a way to explain this positively to his team. He seems a very mental orientated person compared to an emotional oriented person like Ricciardo.

[Kao18]

I am pretty sure the best feeling even for Max is winning the race. Having said that I can imagine there have been times beating qualifying beast Ricciardo must have felt pretty good too.

But I guess it depends on your team mate. I doubt if he beats Gasly in qualifying this weekend for instance he will be electrified. No disrespect to Gasly by the way.

[Ivanhoe]

I think you already see that he matured a lot, he looks composed and consious of his responsibilities as a first driver. I’m confident he’ll do just fine.

Edited by Ivanhoe, 15 March 2019 - 12:32.

[Viryfan]

I'm french and basically everybody in france expect Gasly to take a beating by Verstappen.

 

In fact french main sport news paper promotes more Carles Leclerc in their f1 preview paper

 

Edited by Viryfan, 15 March 2019 - 12:37.

[pitlanepalpatine]

Ivanhoe, on 15 Mar 2019 - 12:31, said:

I think you already see that he matured a lot, he looks composed and consious of his responsibilities as a first driver. I’m confident he’ll do just fine.

 

To paraphrase von Moltke, no battleplan survives first contact with the enemy. It'll be interesting to see how the season goes because ideally, lead drivers bring the best out of their team mates so both succeed and you get 1&2's. It'll be interesting to see if he tries to crush Gasly or tries to use him as a buffer for a possible championship challenge if he's going for one.

[DILLIGAF]

I'm with the French then because I think Max will outperform Gasly. 

 

A real rivalry i'm looking forward to in the coming years is between Verstappen and Leclerc. . 

[A3]

DILLIGAF, on 15 Mar 2019 - 12:52, said:

A real rivalry i'm looking forward to in the coming years is between Verstappen and Leclerc. .

Oh me too. Hope first that one of the two can bring the fight to Hamilton. I think that although Leclerc might not be the "on the edge" racer that Verstappen is, but he's extremely talented and somehow looks like a more complete driver already.

[Fatgadget]

A3, on 15 Mar 2019 - 10:24, said:

There weren't many Sainz fans in 2015 either, but there are always Max haters.

Is it any different in 2019?Am I the only one that finds Carlos Jr as dull as the proverbial?

[RobG]

A3, on 15 Mar 2019 - 12:57, said:

Oh me too. Hope first that one of the two can bring the fight to Hamilton. I think that although Leclerc might not be the "on the edge" racer that Verstappen is, but he's extremely talented and somehow looks like a more complete driver already.

I don't think we've seen Leclerc perform under high pressure of a fast teammate yet, I first have to see that before I'd say he's a more complete driver.

[ARTGP]

A3, on 15 Mar 2019 - 12:57, said:

Oh me too. Hope first that one of the two can bring the fight to Hamilton. I think that although Leclerc might not be the "on the edge" racer that Verstappen is, but he's extremely talented and somehow looks like a more complete driver already.

 

Agree. I think Charles has far less learning to do because he's not hot headed like Max. Max is talented but his demeanor on the track was his own sabotage and lead to a few hard lessons. Max is still learning to be level headed. There's a way for Max to win championships without having the press stirring up the pot constantly. At the end of the day, Max needs to learn that it comes with the sport and he's better off making sure he keeps it under control.  Jos is unfortunately not the role model in this regard. Charles isn't going to have this learning phase where he has to learn how to stop sabotaging himself on the track due to anger and arrogance because he's quite humble and level headed already. 

Edited by ARTGP, 15 March 2019 - 19:15.

[FullOppositeLock]

It’s a bit early to conclude with any degree of certainty that Leclerc has no more lessons to learn. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves here. Also we could see by Erricson’s improved performance that last year’s Sauber was a very good car, which has helped Leclerc a lot as well as having a weaker team mate. A sort of reverse Vandoorne effect if you like. Let’s see how the year unfolds first, but there is no denying Charles looks every bit the bees’ knees as Max does, and we could in theory be set for a great long term rivalry.

[ARTGP]

FullOppositeLock, on 15 Mar 2019 - 22:04, said:

It’s a bit early to conclude with any degree of certainty that Leclerc has no more lessons to learn. Let’s not get ahead of ourselves here. Also we could see by Erricson’s improved performance that last year’s Sauber was a very good car, which has helped Leclerc a lot as well as having a weaker team mate. A sort of reverse Vandoorne effect if you like. Let’s see how the year unfolds first, but there is no denying Charles looks every bit the bees’ knees as Max does, and we could in theory be set for a great long term rivalry.

 

That's not what was said. LeClerc does have lessons to learn.  The point is, toning down arrogance in the media and on the track is not one of them. Charles isn't going to have the kind of incident Max had in Brazil because Charles doesn't drive around the track like he's god and everyone get out of the way. Charles seems level headed enough to understand a situation such as a fast car unlapping itself and know how it should end up.  Max had a hard lesson in Brazil, but Max will grow from it.

Edited by ARTGP, 15 March 2019 - 22:10.

[Sunnny]

DILLIGAF, on 15 Mar 2019 - 12:52, said:

I'm with the French then because I think Max will outperform Gasly. 

 

A real rivalry i'm looking forward to in the coming years is between Verstappen and Leclerc. . 

 

 

Well we are going to see some of this in 2019 and dont dismiss Gasly just yet because he is very aggressive too and he will be able to hold his own against Leclerc and Max. 

[FullOppositeLock]

There is no way of predicting how Leclerc would handle a backmarker sticking their car alongside the race leader as if he was racing him for the win. It was as far as I know completely unprecedented in recent times and could just as easily have cought out Lewis or Seb, although Ofon probably wouldn’t have dared on them. That’s more on Ocon than Max though. Anyway, old ground, I just think it’s a nonsensical example to make any point about Max’ maturity as a driver.

[ARTGP]

FullOppositeLock, on 15 Mar 2019 - 22:25, said:

There is no way of predicting how Leclerc would handle a backmarker sticking their car alongside the race leader as if he was racing him for the win. It was as far as I know completely unprecedented in recent times and could just as easily have cought out Lewis or Seb, although Ofon probably wouldn’t have dared on them. That’s more on Ocon than Max though. Anyway, old ground, I just think it’s a nonsensical example to make any point about Max’ maturity as a driver.

 

Don't take it from me....Lewis said it in the cool down room after the race.  Max had more to lose, he should have let Ocon past. That's the definition off maturity. Picking your battles, I'm sure you've had these moments in life too. The example is not nonsensical, the team told him Ocon was coming, and Max didnt pick his battles.

Edited by ARTGP, 15 March 2019 - 22:56.

[A3]

You are right, he learned a lesson. Namely that not all drivers act as expected. Nothing to do with "driving like he's god and expecting everyone to get out of the way". Jesus.

As I said, there will always be Max haters.

[DILLIGAF]

Sunnny, on 15 Mar 2019 - 22:21, said:

Well we are going to see some of this in 2019 and dont dismiss Gasly just yet because he is very aggressive too and he will be able to hold his own against Leclerc and Max. 

 

I'll be happy for Gasly if he does hold his own against Max, but I'd be surprised if he does so over a full season. Like I've said, Gasly is quick and shows flashes of brilliance but I don't think he's in the same class as Max just yet. Maybe in a year or two we'll get a better idea of how good Gasly is compared to other top tier drivers.

[DILLIGAF]

Second row is a great result for Max.  

 

Bad call to not give Gasly another run in Q1.

 

Regardless it's 1-0 to Max in Q

[Cliff]

Great effort by Max mixing it up with the ferrari's and qualifying in front of LeClerc. Lewis like lap if you ask me. Sucks to be that far behind Merc, but podium is a real possibility and that's all we need in the first couple of races!

[enjoyingRBR]

Cliff, on 16 Mar 2019 - 07:07, said:

Great effort by Max mixing it up with the ferrari's and qualifying in front of LeClerc. Lewis like lap if you ask me. Sucks to be that far behind Merc, but podium is a real possibility and that's all we need in the first couple of races!

Pretty annoying for gasly, but great lap by max!

[Cliff]

enjoyingRBR, on 16 Mar 2019 - 07:10, said:

Pretty annoying for gasly, but great lap by max!

 

Yeah that was very dumb. Almost had Max out of Q1 as well. But i guess nobody expected everyone to be that close.