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Ferrari 2019: Vettel vs Leclerc, Binotto vs shareholders, expectation vs reality


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#1 BRK

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Posted 15 March 2019 - 09:07

The place to share & discuss any news/updates/opinions to do with the Scuderia Ferrari Formula 1 team, their drivers, management, strategies and allied topics.

 

(We'll finally stop cluttering up the SF90 technical thread!)


Edited by BRK, 15 March 2019 - 09:07.


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#2 A3

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Posted 15 March 2019 - 09:10

Fp2 showed once again that Kimi is still a bit slower than Vettel. Oh wait...

Edited by A3, 15 March 2019 - 09:10.


#3 Zava

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Posted 15 March 2019 - 09:29

Fp2 showed once again that Kimi is still a bit slower than Vettel. Oh wait...

yeah, for a moment I was tricked into thinking the top8 is 4 teams in tandem  :lol:



#4 Junky

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 06:38

Topic to discuss the performance of the Ferrari drivers.



#5 SCUDmissile

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 06:40

these aren't to be used anymore apparently.



#6 Junky

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 06:41

these aren't to be used anymore apparently.

 

Ok. Sorry, mate.



#7 PayasYouRace

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 06:42

We made an announcement about his this is going to work this year. Unless I’ve missed an existing thread, we can use this for Ferrari’s team and driver discussions.

#8 SCUDmissile

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 06:43

We made an announcement about his this is going to work this year. Unless I’ve missed an existing thread, we can use this for Ferrari’s team and driver discussions.

https://forums.autos...am-thread-2019/

 

one here i think



#9 PayasYouRace

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 06:45

Thanks for finding. Threads Merged

#10 BRK

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 07:04

Qualifying was a disaster. Just hope this season doesn't turn out like the last with Mercedes having the better - much better, if today is anything to go by - car. 


Edited by BRK, 16 March 2019 - 07:04.


#11 ConsiderAndGo

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 07:14

Vettel maxed that cars capability today. It’s weird, onboard looks so good but the pace just wasn’t there.

Even though Leclerc is young and in his first race, I still can’t help but feel disappointed. I guess that’s the whole point in driving a Ferrari; doesn’t matter who you are, you must perform. He was average today.

Edit: Binotto looks mad.

Edited by ConsiderAndGo, 16 March 2019 - 07:15.


#12 SCUDmissile

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 07:17

Vettel maxed that cars capability today. It’s weird, onboard looks so good but the pace just wasn’t there.

Even though Leclerc is young and in his first race, I still can’t help but feel disappointed. I guess that’s the whole point in driving a Ferrari; doesn’t matter who you are, you must perform. He was average today.

Edit: Binotto looks mad.

 

tbf to him, first race is always tough and for someone so young as well. He will take time to grow



#13 Blackoutjulian

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 07:19

Yeah ....2020?? Anybody ?

#14 HermannH

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 07:19

Neither driver particularly impressive today. But more so dissapointed in leclerc.



#15 Topsu

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 07:23

Leclerc not doing any better than an old drunk is surely disappointing?



#16 Junky

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 07:23

Binotto out! [Paddy Lowe's mode of being evaluated off]

 

Vettel was in shock after the qualifying. I didn't expect this disadvantage at all.

 

Regarding Leclerc, I understand the disappointment, but you should remember his trajectory at the beginning of last season.



#17 Baddoer

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 07:25

That is back to the drawing board folks



#18 Okyo

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 07:29

Leclerc did fine. He struggles in Melbourne. The second Q3 try was riddled with mistakes, quite off the first try, so it's not a case of just being slow. 

 

Excited for tomorrow nevertheless to see what the boy can do with a car like that versus Max and others.



#19 TomNokoe

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 07:48

The pressure of driving for Ferrari... Leclerc feeling it immediately.

He was very upset with himself in an interview with SKY.

Edited by TomNokoe, 16 March 2019 - 07:48.


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#20 Vesuvius

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 07:50

Leclerc did fine. He struggles in Melbourne. The second Q3 try was riddled with mistakes, quite off the first try, so it's not a case of just being slow.

Excited for tomorrow nevertheless to see what the boy can do with a car like that versus Max and others.


He didn't do fine. But he will improve and he has to.

#21 Vesuvius

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 07:51

Vettel maxed that cars capability today. It’s weird, onboard looks so good but the pace just wasn’t there.

Even though Leclerc is young and in his first race, I still can’t help but feel disappointed. I guess that’s the whole point in driving a Ferrari; doesn’t matter who you are, you must perform. He was average today.

Edit: Binotto looks mad.


Scary thing is that Mercedes is not a good car to drive yet.

#22 1Devil1

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 07:52

He didn't do fine if you believed the hype around him. People excepted him to be fast as Vettel from minute one. That's ridiculous. He can slowly build up his campaign 



#23 superdelphinus

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 07:52

A car that is on pole by that much is not a bad car to drive.

#24 Cyanide

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 08:17

Not the start I was hoping, that goes for both the team and Leclerc. So far not better than Kimi, but let's see how his season pans out.

If you want to make an impression, you have to start with a bang and this wasn't it. Look at Norris in the McLaren, or Ricciardo in the Renault.

#25 Perfection

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 08:18

People may need to realize that Leclerc has not been signed with the expectations of him beating or challenging Vettel straight away. He is a project for post-Vettel era. He has been regarded as a successor of him, so what is expected from him for now realistically is to learn and mature alongside Vettel to get in shape as a future leader driver of the team.



#26 Okyo

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 08:18

He didn't do fine if you believed the hype around him. People excepted him to be fast as Vettel from minute one. That's ridiculous. He can slowly build up his campaign 

This. Anyone with a reasonable view would expect him doing a good job being just behind Seb, withing two tenths. The only meh thing from him today, was having Max in front.



#27 sopa

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 08:25

Leclerc is the youngest Ferrari driver since Ricardo Rodriguez in 1961, or at least that's the claim I heard.

 

His first ever qualifying session for Scuderia - well, okay.

 

Over the full season I would certainly expect him to perform better than an old Kimi Raikkonen did though. If he didn't, it would be very disappointing, at least from the point of view of Leclerc becoming a championship contender, not just a good #2.

 

But first weekend is too early to draw conclusions.



#28 geralt

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 08:27

Seb got the most out of the car, while it was a meh performance from Leclerc. Yes, it's his first race, but I consider him a generational talent and was really hoping he'd be closer to Seb (and lock the second row). With Max starting 4th, tomorrow the start will be crucial



#29 jstrains

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 08:30

Ferrari definitely threw it away last year. There is no way they are going to stop Lewis thus year

#30 DS27

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 08:33

Leclerc did just fine - people need to stop over-reacting to every single session.



#31 Tomerell

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 08:56

People may need to realize that Leclerc has not been signed with the expectations of him beating or challenging Vettel straight away. He is a project for post-Vettel era. He has been regarded as a successor of him, so what is expected from him for now realistically is to learn and mature alongside Vettel to get in shape as a future leader driver of the team.

 

Well at least that was the hype around here when he was signed last year. Countless comments of how he will destroy Vettel from the get-go. 

He is young but he has not put the world on fire so far...


Edited by Tomerell, 16 March 2019 - 08:57.


#32 BRK

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 09:04

What I'm actually amazed by is how many here are underestimating Sebastian after 2017 & 2018. Vettel dominated the sport in superior machinery the way Hamilton has been these last few years. 

 

But that's the way it is in F1 these days I guess. Short memories. In 2010-12, Sebastian was the GOAT winning anything & everything, Alonso was lauded as a great "dragging that Ferrari into places it didn't belong", and Lewis Hamilton was handily being beaten by Jenson Button. 

 

Today somehow Hamilton is the GOAT, Alonso forgotten & Vettel is just there to get beaten.  :p

 

Leclerc seems like a very talented youngster and he will come good. But these expectations from race 1 are insane.



#33 sopa

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 09:06

What I'm actually amazed by is how many here are underestimating Sebastian after 2017 & 2018. Vettel dominated the sport in superior machinery the way Hamilton has been these last few years. 

 

Vettel's mistakes in the last few years have been unquestionable.

 

But his speed has been underestimated by some people, who think Ricciardo would beat him in all seasons in all situations.



#34 Raest

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 09:06

The reason(s) why lots of you are disappointed in Leclerc are a) you overestimated him (generational talent? On what evidence) and b) you treat Vettel as some mediocre impostor who lucked his way into 4 WDCs. As for Ferrari we rarely go well in Melbourne. I will wait till next race to form an opinion

#35 xtremeclock

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 09:10

Leclerc did just fine - people need to stop over-reacting to every single session.

 

He is young and people need to have patience, but his performance was below average...and he is the first to acknowledge that, he wasn't happy with his lap.



#36 Nonesuch

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 09:13

It's fair enough that Leclerc needs a bit of time. Two and half tenths behind Vettel also isn't bad. Vettel can be super-fast in qualifying. We'll see how it shakes out over the course of the year.

 

On the other hand, he replaced someone who kept fighting with Red Bulls while the other half of the team was trying to keep up with Mercedes. This outcome is a bit unfortunate for that reason.


Edited by Nonesuch, 16 March 2019 - 09:13.


#37 malibu

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 09:17

People just don't realize how quick Vettel is. Raikonen wasn't in the same league. Vettel extracted everything from his car last year, more than everything at the cost of some mistakes and got the blame for that. Vettel's approach was right, that was his only chance of beating the mercedes hamilton combi. Ferrari's speed last year compared to mercedes was overestimated. Had Vettel stayed too cautious and played security, he still would have been in front of raikonen and all lights would be on ferrari's lack of performance. Arrivabene and ferrari's staff were hypocrite and found confort in Vettel's mistakes, which in fact hided  that ferrari were loosing the race in development and Vettel was trying to overcompensate 


Edited by malibu, 16 March 2019 - 09:19.


#38 EndlessMotion

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 09:24

Leclerc obviously needs time to settle in his new surroundings and with Vettel as an experienced and quick teammate. Definitely more to come from the young man as the season progresses. Will probably be a little disappointed to have Max split him and Seb as the Ferrari is ahead of Red Bull.

We’ve still much to learn about the top three teams in race conditions and more importantly once there’s a few more race weekends under everyone’s belt. I expected more from Ferrari here but I’m not going to be fooled into thinking they’re going to be that far behind in future.


Edited by EndlessMotion, 16 March 2019 - 09:47.


#39 SCUDmissile

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 10:07

Difference here is that Charles is more disgusted with himself than we are at the moment, which can only be a good thing.

Kimi would qualify behind a Bull last season, or before and we'd coddle him like some kind of special child.

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#40 Ice1Fan

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 10:20

Difference here is that Charles is more disgusted with himself than we are at the moment, which can only be a good thing.

Kimi would qualify behind a Bull last season, or before and we'd coddle him like some kind of special child.

I really don't remember this type of scenario in the last few years.



#41 Jovanotti

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 10:20

Leclerc not doing any better than an old drunk is surely disappointing?

For all your bashing you will probably have to learn this season that Räikkönen wasn't that slow after all, even at almost 40  :wave:

 

That said, I think Leclerc did good and will get on Seb's pace as the season continues. 



#42 Zilbert

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 10:24

Poor Kimi, even leaving the team doesn't save him from being mentioned in a negative light every other post in here.  :down:  Well, whatever works to make some people feel better i guess.  :lol: 



#43 Kev00

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 10:31

The fact Vettel is underrated and Leclerc is overrated by so many is going to lead to a messy thread here. I just hope Leclerc fans don’t end up like Kimi fans.

#44 Lights

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 10:33

This was just the first qualifying session. I fully expect Leclerc to leave a better impression at the end of the season than today. And even today he was still very close to Vettel.

 

So it surprises me how quickly some people here judge him for being 'disappointing'. Or perhaps it's not so surprising after all.

Let's give it some race weekends. I'm curious to find out what Leclerc can show on racepace. 



#45 tmekt

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 10:33

Awakening for people who had delusions about Leclerc's speed. Very Kimiesque first quali.

Decent enough result still in the first session for a new team. He will have to improve quick though if he hopes to challenge Vettel: Ferrari will bump him to number 2 within a couple of races.

#46 sopa

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 10:35

Poor Kimi, even leaving the team doesn't save him from being mentioned in a negative light every other post in here.  :down:  Well, whatever works to make some people feel better i guess.  :lol:

 

Maybe because being better than Kimi was the absolute minimum target for Leclerc for this year. If Leclerc was hired to become a good #2 and no-one expected more of him than a Perez, or a Hulkenberg, then yeah. Driving around the level of Kimi would seem okayish. But from a future championship contender you would expect more.

 

However, in 2018 Leclerc didn't start out fantastically well either in Sauber, so one would need to wait quite a few more races to get a more representative picture. In 2018 the first weekend in which Leclerc truly impressed was in Baku. And benchmark Vettel can be many things, but he isn't slow.



#47 SCUDmissile

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 10:40

Poor Kimi, even leaving the team doesn't save him from being mentioned in a negative light every other post in here. :down: Well, whatever works to make some people feel better i guess. :lol:


Tbf Ferraris new driver was always going to be compared to Ferraris old driver.

It's why Vettel gets compared to Alonso a lot.

#48 Lights

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 10:44

What I'm actually amazed by is how many here are underestimating Sebastian after 2017 & 2018. Vettel dominated the sport in superior machinery the way Hamilton has been these last few years. 

 

But that's the way it is in F1 these days I guess. Short memories. In 2010-12, Sebastian was the GOAT winning anything & everything, Alonso was lauded as a great "dragging that Ferrari into places it didn't belong", and Lewis Hamilton was handily being beaten by Jenson Button. 

 

Today somehow Hamilton is the GOAT, Alonso forgotten & Vettel is just there to get beaten.  :p

 

Leclerc seems like a very talented youngster and he will come good. But these expectations from race 1 are insane.

 

Vettel was never the GOAT, and Hamilton wasn't beaten by Button, never mind handily. Perhaps it's better to have short memories than skewed memories.

 

Vettel is fast and consistent in qualifying and it won't be easy for Leclerc to beat him at that, but I'm still confident we will see it more frequently than with Kimi in recent years.

 

More importantly though is how he performs in races, and that we have zero proof of yet.



#49 Zilbert

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 10:54

I don't want to get into a detailed Leclerc - Kimi debate, its done and dusted and as a Kimi fan i have made my peace with it. And i actually like Charles and root for him to do well. But Kimi was actually pretty quick at the start of the last year : bit quicker then Seb here in quali and in race, provisional pole in Bahrain after first q3 runs, same in China only just pipped by Seb (half of tenth or so), lost an easy pole in Baku with that last corner mistake etc. He was certainly pushing Seb. Nevertheless, there was a whole army of posters just waiting for his first really poor weekend (which was Canada i guess) to call for his head. But hey, let us mention now how poor he was in qualifying in 2015 or start of 2017 or something. :confused:



#50 AlexPrime

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Posted 16 March 2019 - 10:59

Charlies seems to be on the level of Kimi in his first Q session, which isn't bad - you see Kimi in the top 10, he is a fast driver and a world champion. Seb again drove a very good qualy lap. Unfortunately the car can not fight the Merc, so he is best of the rest. I hope that he does not get hit by Max or vice verse tomorrow. P3 seems to be the maximum for the foreseeable future, then I hope we'll see big changes in rules and hopefully Merc will leave the sport. Either that, or they'll destroy it.