432 replies to this topic

[tourister46a]

I couldn't find the thread for discussing Racing Point's people.

 

Has Stroll solved his Qualifying woes? He was only 1 tenth off Perez in Q1 and about 5 tenths if you include Perez's Q2 and Q3. Apparently Stroll hit traffic on his best Q1 run?

 

Good performance by Stroll in the race as well, though Perez might have beaten him on the same strategy.

[coppilcus]

Pretty solid job from Stroll, whom is demonstrating to be better than Ocon...

The Sauber ruined the race for Perez and quite a few more drivers with that traffic train.

This season the trophy for Formula 1.5 is going to be far harsher than previous seasons.

[BRG]

I think Stroll has learnt a lot at Williams in his first two seasons and has matured well.  He seems to have a weak spot in Q, but almost invariably makes up more places off the start than anyone else.  And usually without hitting anyone.  This time he was on Perez's tail after just half a lap, and then he kept his pace up and his nose clean right through the race. 

 

He is not a future WDC or even race -winner, but he is far better than some people here will admit.  On today's showing, he merits his place on the grid, even if his father is filthy rich. Let's see if he can continue to match Perez over the full season.

[Collective]

Pretty solid job from Stroll, whom is demonstrating to be better than Ocon...

The Sauber ruined the race for Perez and quite a few more drivers with that traffic train.

This season the trophy for Formula 1.5 is going to be far harsher than previous seasons.

I HATE the stupid rule to start on Q2 tyres. It's basically a punishment for being quick on some tracks. Here, Singapore last year, Monaco...

 

Checo & us his fans can't really complain, because he has been on the winning side of that bet on many occasions throughout his career, but it still sucks for the guy that made it on Saturday.

 

So much nuance getting lost: no, Stroll didn't  suck on Saturday... and also no, his drive yesterday doesn't suddenly make him a superstar. In a track with decent passing chances he would have finished behind Norris, Pérez and Albon, because they would have quickly get rid of GIO and stay within the pit stop delta.

Edited by Collective, 17 March 2019 - 18:52.

[Lights]

Pretty solid job from Stroll, whom is demonstrating to be better than Ocon...

 

How did Stroll demonstrate that he's better than Ocon?

[BRG]

In a track with decent passing chances he would have finished behind Norris, Pérez and Albon, because they would have quickly get rid of GIO and stay within the pit stop delta.

You have to wonder why those three drivers - who all qualified & started AHEAD of Stroll - ended up BEHIND him. 

[coppilcus]

How did Stroll demonstrate that he's better than Ocon?

It was quite a lame attempt of a joke.

My apologies...

Edited by coppilcus, 17 March 2019 - 19:00.

[Lights]

You have to wonder why those three drivers - who all qualified & started AHEAD of Stroll - ended up BEHIND him. 

 

You don't have to wonder, because the answer is Giovinazzi. Well that, and the Q3 tire rules if you want to dig deeper.

Edited by Lights, 17 March 2019 - 19:01.

[coppilcus]

You have to wonder why those three drivers - who all qualified & started AHEAD of Stroll - ended up BEHIND him.

Sauber

[PistolPete]

How did Stroll demonstrate that he's better than Ocon?

 

Guess its the other way around. If Stroll beats Perez this season then it will be obvious that the Perez/Ocon pairing was overrated. If Perez win it is status quo.

[coppilcus]

Guess its the other way around. If Stroll beats Perez this season then it will be obvious that the Perez/Ocon pairing was overrated. If Perez win it is status quo.

Yes, my lame attempt was directed to portray a narrative in that direction.

The obvious promoting job that Mercedes and Ocon’s fanboys are doing, is quite vicious and aggressive. First the garbage “documentary” F1 Driving to Survie, the incessant media coverage, and then the side appearances with Mr. Wolff throughout the entire race, trying to maintain a straight/happy face, without crying, still, for not having a helicopter ride and a poster in Mexico City, are paving the way to a return to a Mercedes powered car in 2019...

Worst case scenario for the “Next Senna” is if Bottas keeps performing and Stroll ends up, somehow, beating Perez.

Then what? A paydriver beats the other paydriver that beat the “Next Senna” for two straight seasons?

[messy]

Problem here is that I think Stroll is going to have a good season. He's always been a decent racer. At Williams he was fairly fortunate to all but match Massa's points in 2017 but it was still a good achievement. Last year, how was anyone supposed to tell how he and Sirotkin stacked up - but quietly he still did ok. He's an easy target because of his circumstances but he did a good job today too.

Problem being, if he stacks up well against Perez in the team owned by his dad and Perez in turn, having edged both Hulkenberg and Ocon, starts to lose to the son of the team owner then I'm damned if I can work out why people will think that's happening....

[coppilcus]

Problem here is that I think Stroll is going to have a good season. He's always been a decent racer. At Williams he was fairly fortunate to all but match Massa's points in 2017 but it was still a good achievement. Last year, how was anyone supposed to tell how he and Sirotkin stacked up - but quietly he still did ok. He's an easy target because of his circumstances but he did a good job today too.
Problem being, if he stacks up well against Perez in the team owned by his dad and Perez in turn, having edged both Hulkenberg and Ocon, starts to lose to the son of the team owner then I'm damned if I can work out why people will think that's happening....

True...

Stroll also could end up being massively underrated.

[KWSN - DSM]

True...

Stroll also could end up being massively underrated.

 

I have been flying a flag for Stroll against all the negative postings last two years. He may not be a WDC in the making, he is however a former F3 Champion, he has stood on a podium in F1, he is assuredly a much better driver than a lot here have been willing to agree to.

 

If he beat Perez over the season, it will be his dads fault.

If he lose to Perez over the season, it will be him being crap and not even his dad buying a team is enough.

 

Both of which are wrong, I think that Perez over the season will be the better driver, however I have zero issue with Stroll being in F1, I see him as being there with as much merit as other drivers, he can not help his dad is who he is. Were he in F1 with same racing CV, but no rich dad most of the negative would not be there.

 

Go Stroll

Go Perez

Go Racing Point

 

 

P.S. Just do not go better than Magnussen and Haas

[warp]

Solid job by Stroll.

 

This track is not so easy to pass even with 3 DRS zones... Checo was catching up with Norris but not enough to pass him in the end. 

[FNG]

Stroll seems to do ok in races. He's good hands during the race. But his qualifying is certainly not up to scratch

[Cynic2]

According to one of the SKY commentators he was blocked by a Haas on his flying lap in Q1.  Given his race pace and result that seems quite believable. 

[HeadFirst]

I think Lance had a solid race day. He made up places on the start (which he often does), had decent pace, and was able to hold position through good car placement. Arguments that he would have finished further back at another track are irrelevant. The race was held at Melbourne, not another track. 

[messy]

Stroll seems to do ok in races. He's good hands during the race. But his qualifying is certainly not up to scratch

 

 

0.1 off Perez in Q1 the difference between going out and in Perez' case getting into Q3. I think he had a pretty strong weekend. 

 

Any driver in the midfield who can consistently make up a number of places off the line, defend strongly and finish ahead of cars that are probably faster is onto a good thing and Stroll did that way under the radar far too often in 2018 for it to be any coincidence. 

Edited by messy, 18 March 2019 - 08:34.

[MNader]

Honesty, I was surprised by Stroll this race. I expected Perez to destroy him this season.

 

Still early days, but let's see how this develops.

 

Stroll has been on the front row and the Podium already though, so he can't be as bad as i think perhaps.

[KavB]

I don't think Stroll will do too badly this year. He was awful in his first season, but I think that was down to rushing into F1 when clearly he needed more time to develop as a driver. 

 

This year is probably when he should have debuted into the sport and now he has 2 years of experience in F1 so he should perform to a good level (unless he genuinely is just a below average driver)

[JeePee]

What happened with Perez this race? 

[messy]

I don't think Stroll will do too badly this year. He was awful in his first season, but I think that was down to rushing into F1 when clearly he needed more time to develop as a driver. 

 

This year is probably when he should have debuted into the sport and now he has 2 years of experience in F1 so he should perform to a good level (unless he genuinely is just a below average driver)

 

 

I don't actually think his rookie season was much worse than say, Gasly's. Very up and down, a couple of real headlines and a number of real struggles. Gasly qualified better against his team-mate but Stroll scored more points. One of them got promoted to Red Bull off the back of it, one is forever derided as a rich kid with no place on the grid. 

[Collective]

What happened with Perez this race? 

He made it to Q3, so he was punished with having to pit early. He also had a bad start where he lost two positions. Then Racing Point flopped his pit stop (more than 4 seconds) so he couldn't undercut Albon despite a good inlap. After that he was caught in the Giovinazzi train that ruined many races.

[Myrvold]

I am surprised by Stroll here.

Doesn't change my opinion of his F3 title, nor that he should've been much better in Williams considering the ridiculous amount of private testing he had compared to any other rookie since Hamilton.

 

It's a good start though, if he keeps this up, I guess I'm forced to change my opinion on the current driver Lance Stroll

[TheJammin]

Hoping Stroll keeps it up, it was a solid debut in a new team, getting the points in early doors. Sure he was helped by the Gio train but that's racing, got to capitalise on good fortune.

 

I still think he's a lot better than many give him credit for, and he seems a nice respectful guy on top of that. Hoping he at least keeps the points coming in this year and matches Perez.

[ckolcz]

Stroll hardly puts a foot wrong on race day, does he? Not his biggest fan, but he usually delivers on Sunday. Great start to the season and curious to see how the qualifying battle between him and Perez pans out.

[absinthedude]

It's hardly Lance's fault that his dad is rich. Yes, that has bought Lance privileges....but in the end he had to drive those cars in which he won races and titles in the junior formulae. If Lance were no good, he'd have been like so many other rich drivers....midfield in F3 having fun at his or daddy's expense. 

 

I do doubt that he's WDC material but he's shown at Williams that he's not devoid of talent. I hope that the Racing Point is consistent enough to let us see just where Lance is in the pecking order. I rate Perez pretty highly so am watching the team with great interest. 

[Bleu]

Compared to other son of rich Canadian father it's easy to say Stroll is way better than Latifi.

[Gary Davies]

Ooh, Ocon seems to have got under Perez' skin, doesn't he!

 

"In a way Esteban [Ocon] and Nico [Hulkenberg] were quite a similar approach and they always seemed to struggle a lot with race pace," Perez said.

"But with Lance, his race pace is, from all the team-mates, the closest to mine. He's already, on Sundays, quite good.

 

"I was quite surprised because going for a long run I seemed to find it a bit easier with my previous team-mates, but it's not the case now. He has a good understanding for Sundays."

[Paco]

This why team owners hiring their son is such a mess.. 

 

Man Perez lusting over Stroll Jr. is just so pie in your face gross.. thought the guy had more in him then to be this weak...

 

We will see in time but man alive, the guy had a hard time with Ocon and suggesting Stroll is on Ocon's level after 1 GP which didn't show that wow..   

 

Always Liked FI.. RP is a different team and not looking like it will have the FI spirit.  Probably stop paying attention to them very soon..

[Paco]

What's happenned to RP?  Why they falling back.. pretty soon they'll be just ahead of Williams...

 

Netflix made it seem like the change over barely hurt their engineering team, just a disruption but seems like they produced a pretty bad car this year.   Anyone read anything that could be the cause (lose of personnel)... Or is it just the manner in which Stroll Sr. conducts the team effecting their old approach that worked soo well.

[coppilcus]

Ooh, Ocon seems to have got under Perez' skin, doesn't he!

 

"In a way Esteban [Ocon] and Nico [Hulkenberg] were quite a similar approach and they always seemed to struggle a lot with race pace," Perez said.

"But with Lance, his race pace is, from all the team-mates, the closest to mine. He's already, on Sundays, quite good.

 

"I was quite surprised because going for a long run I seemed to find it a bit easier with my previous team-mates, but it's not the case now. He has a good understanding for Sundays."

 

Ocon or the entire media?! 

 

Including the official media from F1 and their endless promotion of the "struggling story of the Frenchman"...

 

I can understand fanboys, but when such fanboys are working with the owners of F1, it stops being understandable.

[Marklar]

I dont quite get why people are so surprised by this. Stroll is a much better racer than qualifier. Hulk and Ocon were better qualifiers than racers. Is it really so far-fetched to assume that Stroll could be around that level in race pace?

[KWSN - DSM]

I dont quite get why people are so surprised by this. Stroll is a much better racer than qualifier. Hulk and Ocon were better qualifiers than racers. Is it really so far-fetched to assume that Stroll could be around that level in race pace?

 

Not at all.

 

[Gary Davies]

I dont quite get why people are so surprised by this. Stroll is a much better racer than qualifier. Hulk and Ocon were better qualifiers than racers. Is it really so far-fetched to assume that Stroll could be around that level in race pace?

Not a bad point, Marklar, but where I’m coming from is this. I have heard from the mouth of a leading F1 journo that the driver Verstappen really fears is Ocon.

Add the obvious antagonism between Sergio and Estaban that shone through in the Netflix series and there seems, in my mind at least, something not totally objective and credible about Sergio’s claim.

[noikeee]

I dont quite get why people are so surprised by this. Stroll is a much better racer than qualifier. Hulk and Ocon were better qualifiers than racers. Is it really so far-fetched to assume that Stroll could be around that level in race pace?

No, what seems total bullshit is the implied assumption in Perez's talk, that he had it easy with Hulk and Ocon and had them both completely in control on the Sundays.

He definitely did comparatively better against them in Sundays than Saturdays, yes, but it wasn't easy at all. Often ended up ahead in points due to some wacky SC race or alternate strategy, rather than having a constant 3 tenths in the pocket which is what it sounds like he's saying he had.

Now Stroll is in the position he often used to be in : qualifies a couple places back, gets the alternate strategy out of sync with everyone else, free choice of tyres, occasionally lucks into a free track. "Race pace genius compared to Ocon and Hulk" my arse, sure Stroll is competent and not a total mug, but this is all so dependent on the circumstances you're racing in, isn't it?

Edited by noikeee, 30 March 2019 - 01:03.

[warp]

Add the obvious antagonism between Sergio and Estaban that shone through in the Netflix series and there seems, in my mind at least, something not totally objective and credible about Sergio’s claim.

 

While I'm not blinded and think that Checo is exaggerating on his claims, I agree with his message that Stroll may be better on Race than Qualifying and probably it's harder of an opponent to beat for Checo as they share most of their strengths.

 

I am actually convinced that pairing with Checo was about the worst think that could happen to both Ocon and Hulk... both looked like the next Senna until they were paired with the lucky paydriver and couldn't come out on top. At least not convincingly.  

[beachdrifter]

Not a bad point, Marklar, but where I’m coming from is this. I have heard from the mouth of a leading F1 journo that the driver Verstappen really fears is Ocon.

 

The biggest letdown of this season is that we don't have LeClerc/Ocon/Verstappen going at it in competitive machinery. Could have been legendary. Hopefully next season!

Edited by beachdrifter, 30 March 2019 - 02:56.

[Marklar]

No, what seems total bullshit is the implied assumption in Perez's talk, that he had it easy with Hulk and Ocon and had them both completely in control on the Sundays.

He definitely did comparatively better against them in Sundays than Saturdays, yes, but it wasn't easy at all. Often ended up ahead in points due to some wacky SC race or alternate strategy, rather than having a constant 3 tenths in the pocket which is what it sounds like he's saying he had.

Now Stroll is in the position he often used to be in : qualifies a couple places back, gets the alternate strategy out of sync with everyone else, free choice of tyres, occasionally lucks into a free track. "Race pace genius compared to Ocon and Hulk" my arse, sure Stroll is competent and not a total mug, but this is all so dependent on the circumstances you're racing in, isn't it?

I mean he says it felt "a bit easier", which is understandable if you are able to use your weapons against others (something he couldnt in Melbourne). I get that it's partly circumstantial, but that's not really the point, isn't it?

The only thing that bothers me is that he is saying this after just one race. For all we know he could beat Stroll the next races clearly, and then his quotes would age well.

[Gary Davies]

The only thing that bothers me is that he is saying this after just one race. For all we know he could beat Stroll the next races clearly, and then his quotes would age well.

A good point and isn't that the essence of how people... journo's forum contributors, pollies, the lot... tend to react these days? 

 

Instant judgements based on, frequently, inadequate or incomplete information.

 

Take the Bahrain GP this weekend for example. A whole lot of people drawing firm conclusions after P1 and P2. 

[motorhead]

The biggest letdown of this season is that we don't have LeClerc/Ocon/Verstappen going at it in competitive machinery. Could have been legendary. Hopefully next season!

 

Really? Ocon in that league, no way. 

[Lights]

I mean he says it felt "a bit easier", which is understandable if you are able to use your weapons against others (something he couldnt in Melbourne). I get that it's partly circumstantial, but that's not really the point, isn't it?

The only thing that bothers me is that he is saying this after just one race. For all we know he could beat Stroll the next races clearly, and then his quotes would age well.

 

Comes across to me as a "Look guys, that new teammate of mine that some people don't rate or have been making fun of, he's actually really good".

 

It's just classic talking up your teammate so you don't look as bad when you end up behind him.

 

Why else would Sergio talk about "He's already quite good on Sundays" after we had 1 unrepresentative Melbourne GP. 

[Gary Davies]

Really? Ocon in that league, no way. 

I think that is very much a minority view. But perhaps you're right. Time will tell. 

[Paco]

Tumbleweeds... 

 

Sad.  What used to be a great team and well respected FI to this... page 3 and no one taking notice.

[Collective]

Well, the first stint didn't seem too bad, Checo was up to the points being very racey with the Renaults and Norris. Once in the mediums it was a different story, he dropped like a rock. But still had that 5s pit stop because of debris on the brake ducts, that was easily P11 without the Renault debacle, or P9 including it, passing Albon.

 

Anyway, I look forward to the upgrades. The team made it clear that the initial concept was completed before the rescue and that Lawrence's money will be noticed as the season evolves. I still have tons of faith in these team. Last year, at this stage and until Barcelona, they looked just as bad.

Edited by Collective, 01 April 2019 - 16:39.

[Collective]

Comes across to me as a "Look guys, that new teammate of mine that some people don't rate or have been making fun of, he's actually really good".

 

It's just classic talking up your teammate so you don't look as bad when you end up behind him.

 

Why else would Sergio talk about "He's already quite good on Sundays" after we had 1 unrepresentative Melbourne GP. 

 

I think it's both an exaggeration on his part (and I'm convinced he is also trolling his not-so-friends in the British media) and a recognition that the trashing that Stroll gets from fans and media is misplaced. He is not a slouch in any way. Great first lap driver and his long stint pace in Melbourne was similar to what Checo does when he is in a similar strategy.

[coppilcus]

I think it's both an exaggeration on his part (and I'm convinced he is also trolling his not-so-friends in the British media) and a recognition that the trashing that Stroll gets from fans and media is misplaced. He is not a slouch in any way. Great first lap driver and his long stint pace in Melbourne was similar to what Checo does when he is in a similar strategy.

 

It's also a self serving gesture? Of course.

 

But when Ocon took a selfie with Stroll in a private jet, begging the crowd not to take their hate against the Canadian because his dad bought the team, everybody turn their hate on Perez...

 

... even the official media from Liberty.

 

"The struggling and tough life from a Frenchman backed by Mercedes Benz", really an amazing story!

Edited by coppilcus, 01 April 2019 - 17:49.

[midgrid]

Racing Point to build new factory for 2021 on expanded base.

[Clatter]

Racing Point to build new factory for 2021 on expanded base.

Seems strange time to announce this with the possibility of the budget cap coming in.