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Formula E Gen3 - News, Tech-Specs and Reveal


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#1 Ben1445

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Posted 01 March 2021 - 23:31

So, we have the Formula E 2021 World Championship thread and individual race threads for the seasons racing antics (and I think there’s sure to be an especially silly Silly Season thread coming up), but what’s supposed to happen with the upcoming Gen3 car isn’t really directly connected to the current season of racing. I thought a new dedicated thread would give us the chance to follow the developments more closely for what’s supposed to be coming up in 2022/2023.

 

Gen3 is a particularly important phase of Formula E’s development. It will be introduced in Season 9 (we are currently on Season 7) which should start in late 2022 or early 2023, depending on how FE decides to organise their schedules from now on. It will then run for (at least) two further seasons for a three year cycle. It's been said that if Gen1 was about demonstrating electric race car performance and Gen2 was about demonstrating improving battery range, Gen3 will be about demonstrating fast charging capability. Addition of a front axle MGU for energy harvesting means vastly more regen whilst further battery developments means the car will be significantly lighter and more powerful than the Gen2 machines. 

 

So, to delve into some Tech-Specs™ in comparison to the Gen2 cars:

Weight and Power (Gen2 —> Gen3)
Qualifying Power: 250kW —> 350kW (+40%)
Race Power: 200 kW —> 300 kW (+50%)
Total weight (inc. driver): 900 kg —> 780 kg (-13%)
Battery Weight: 385 kg —> 284 kg (-26%)
Battery Capacity: 54kWh —> 51kWh (-5.5%)
Regeneration: 250 kW —> 600 kW (+140%, split 350kW rear/250kW front)

 

(For those who can’t think in kW yet, conversion rate is 100 kW = 134.1 bhp, so just multiply everything by 1.341)

Dimensions (Gen2 —> Gen3)
Width: 1770 mm —> 1700 mm (maximum)
Length: 5160 mm —> 5000 mm (maximum)
Height: 1050 mm —> 1250 mm (maximum)

Aerodynamics (Gen2 —> Gen3)
Target drag (SCx): 0.65 —> 0.6 (-8%, Gen1 was 0.75)
Target downforce: (SCz): 1.5-2.0 (no change from previous tender document)

 

(Perrin’s open-source 2017 F1 car data has SCx of ~1.2 and SCz of ~3.75. Assuming frontal area is similar enough I think this should give an approximate relative reference)

What will the race format be?
The big news is the expected introduction of in-race ultrafast-charge pit-stops. The example race-day timetables in the tender documents (not necessarily final) list a carry over of the 45 minutes +1 lap with a fast-charging pitstop of 30 seconds at power of 600kW around 30 minutes into the race. In theory that’s enough to get in about 5kWh (or 10% of the total battery capacity). It’s unknown what the fate of Attack Mode as an in-race might be if these fast charging, but the leading theory is that the pit-stop will replace it as a strategic element. It’s also unknown at present if the elapsed time or energy added in this pitstops will have minimum, maximum, prescribed values or be totally free choice.

Who will be the suppliers?
Chassis: Spark Racing Technologies (same builder of the last two FE chassis)
Battery: Williams Advanced Engineering (Gen1 battery manufacturer, taking over from McLaren/Atieva)
Front Powertrain Kit: Atieva
Tyres: Hankook (taking over from Michelin)
Fast-Charging Infrastructure: ABB (championship title partner)

Who’s signed up?
Mahindra became the first to commit to the Gen3 rules package in November, DS announced they were staying in February and Dragon Penske Autosport is reportedly ready to commit after forming a new partnership with Bosch, who plan to develop a full Gen3 powertrain with the team. Other current (and potentially new) powertrain manufactures are currently evaluating their positions and have until the end of March to make their decisions. The strong expectation is that there will be a few more at least who sign up to join Mahindra and DS.

Sounds great, when can we see the car?
...We don’t know! Reports have said that the plan was to show off first visuals in the first few/months of 2021 so it could be literally any day now. If Gen2’s launch was anything to go by, we’ll be drip-fed teaser shots for a few days before a big reveal. As soon as we have a date and any images surface that news will be posted in this thread.

Alrighty then, by all means follow this thread for updates, ask any questions, share your opinions and maybe learn some stuff as well  :)


Edited by Ben1445, 08 March 2021 - 20:07.


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#2 TomNokoe

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 01:03

For comparisons sake:

F1 2022: 775kg inc. driver + 110kg race fuel = 885kg.

FE 2022: 780kg inc. driver + no fuel = 780kg!

Who would have thought that battery-laden FE may soon be tipping the scales considerably lighter than F1? Yes, the races are much shorter but massive kudos if they can pull this off. A huge step in the right direction.

Plus, with the extra 100kW in addition to the 120kg weight loss, they are going to be seriously FAST in quali trim :up: :up:

Bonus-bonus points for trimming the dimensions!

Shorter, thinner, lighter, more powerful cars will give even more of a "go kart" feel, perfect for the street circuits.

It was literally only last week that I personally decided to give FE a chance this season. When I later read about the Gen3 tech specs I was very impressed. Really excited to see this series and cars develop.

Edited by TomNokoe, 02 March 2021 - 01:13.


#3 RA2

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 03:15

Technically if they run the front motors also then they would be 600kw / 800hp. They could use that if they use grade 1 circuits rather than the streets.

Also the weight mentioned above is including the case and battery cooling apparatus, the weight of battery is targeted to be 180 kgs.
Also the supplier of gen 2 batteries are Lucid motors.


The cars could feature 20 inch wheels, the tender calls for them, not sure if the tyre supplier would be able to meet the requirements.

Edited by RA2, 02 March 2021 - 03:46.


#4 balage06

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 06:59

I'm pretty excited about this, but I still think it could go multiple ways. IIRC even di Grassi wrote at some point that the Gen3 numbers look promising enough to finally create a 'proper' single seater and I completely agree with him. If they build a 'classic' single seater bodykit around it with significant amount of downforce, then give the cars proper race tyres ,boom, FE suddenly arrives somewhere between modern day FIA F3 and F2 in pace terms. Which would make them more than capable of racing at least on the more twistier permanent locations. OR they can stick with the current format and make the cars somewhat faster, but I'm not entirely sure if that's the optimal path to follow. By then, FE won't be the only international electric series and I think they truly need to up their game to maintain the 'premier electric series' status on the long term.



#5 Ben1445

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 07:38

Also the supplier of gen 2 batteries are Lucid motors.

Atieva is the technology wing of Lucid Motors, according to their press documents.

Apparently the company started as Atieva in 2007 focussing on EV component design. They rebranded to Lucid Motors in 2016 with the launch of their road car project but it seems like the Atieva name has been retained internally.

#6 Ben1445

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 08:24

I'm pretty excited about this, but I still think it could go multiple ways. IIRC even di Grassi wrote at some point that the Gen3 numbers look promising enough to finally create a 'proper' single seater and I completely agree with him. If they build a 'classic' single seater bodykit around it with significant amount of downforce, then give the cars proper race tyres ,boom, FE suddenly arrives somewhere between modern day FIA F3 and F2 in pace terms. Which would make them more than capable of racing at least on the more twistier permanent locations. OR they can stick with the current format and make the cars somewhat faster, but I'm not entirely sure if that's the optimal path to follow. By then, FE won't be the only international electric series and I think they truly need to up their game to maintain the 'premier electric series' status on the long term.

What kind of strikes me is that that the rules seem to put FE somewhat closer in spirit to sort of mid-60s F1 upon introduction of the 3.0L formula. They were ballpark 300kW and weighed about 600kg (I think without driver?) and of course had treaded tyres and low downforce... before they all got good at light-weighting, found more power and started adding wings... 

 

I kind of think that electric vehicles need a different approach to aerodynamics than combustion powered counterparts. In order to maximise the range/performance in a race setting I think the focus shifts more towards minimising drag so that every kWh counts, whilst downforce levels needs to strike a balance between ultimate lap-time and cornering speeds suitable for regen (mechanical grip also fits somewhere into that discussion). I'm still trying to get my head around that one a bit, but I don't think the modern single seater aero package is necessarily the obvious ideal direction. Di Grassi had some interesting thoughts on how different power levels could be used to suit different venues, and I suppose it wouldn't be impossible to have different aero packages like IndyCar has with their road/street and oval kits.

 

What I think we are set to get though is some racing machines with pretty competitive power/weight figures but retaining the low grip challenge for the drivers, so instead of the cars running around on rails drivers have to use their skill to control a visibly on-the-edge car. That's a pretty unique offering, whilst basically being 'F3/F2 but it's electric' potentially risks drowning itself in relative normality. 



#7 Scotracer

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 08:37

A significant power boost but a smaller battery (with the pitstop giving roughly the same useable energy as currently). Sounds to me like even more lift and coast will be necessary, since the speed and energy are geometrically linked.



#8 thegamer23

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 08:39

The massive weight reduction & the 100 KW increase in power output will make those cars so agile & fun to watch.

 

300 kW in the races is a massive step forward: that's 50 kW more than the current quali power output.

And they already look quite fast on the single lap.
If we add the reduced weight, Gen 3 races are going to look like quite faster.

350 kW in quali equals to 470 CV. That's a solid power-weight output.

 

Re-Gen Capabilities sounds impressive.
That will compensate for the reduced battery capacity.

 

The Pit-Stops for Ultra-Fast Charging (if confirmed) should add another strategic element to the racing

 

In terms of visuals: they're going to look more "compact", quite a bit shorter than the current Gen 2's.

The extremely low drag (0.6) makes me think that we're going to get a streamlined chassis, with low drag wings (similar to the proposed Gen 2 EVO)

 

Tyre manufacturer will change (From Michelin to Hankook).
Can we expect big changes?
I don't think so. 
FE wants to remain road-relevant, and we're still going to see road tyres, that will provide low grip but high durability.

 

 

All in all.
We can expect an agile, nervous, compact, fast car.
Still on the edge of grip, wich is always a  :up:  for me. I don't care watching cars driving on rails.

Cars will have much more pace in the races, and will be a blast to watch in quali around those tight street courses.

 

 

Sounds great to me.

 

I believe Gen 2 was presented in March 2018 during the Geneva Motor-Show.
Can we expect news this month?


Edited by thegamer23, 02 March 2021 - 08:48.


#9 Ben1445

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 08:57

A significant power boost but a smaller battery (with the pitstop giving roughly the same useable energy as currently). Sounds to me like even more lift and coast will be necessary, since the speed and energy are geometrically linked.

That may be true if similar max regen/race power ratios were to be retained. Bumping up the regen power to 600kW will have a big impact on the net energy use per lap because much less energy will be thrown away as heat in friction brakes. 

 

Currently 200kW race power, 250kW regen (1.25 multiplier) 

Gen3 set to be 300kW race power, 600kW regen (2.0 multiplier) 

 

That extra recovered energy effectively 'funds' the power increase. 



#10 Muppetmad

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 09:02

I think this will be the make-or-break generation for Formula E. I hope it's the former, and based on the specs, that's my instinct - but, of course, nothing is guaranteed.



#11 Scotracer

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 09:12

That may be true if similar max regen/race power ratios were to be retained. Bumping up the regen power to 600kW will have a big impact on the net energy use per lap because much less energy will be thrown away as heat in friction brakes. 

 

Currently 200kW race power, 250kW regen (1.25 multiplier) 

Gen3 set to be 300kW race power, 600kW regen (2.0 multiplier) 

 

That extra recovered energy effectively 'funds' the power increase. 

 

Not necessarily. Drag will eat up a tonne of the energy at higher speeds - hence my point about running faster makes things much much harder. You recover kinetic energy from braking, but there's a big loss in drag all the way along the straight that is not recoverable. 

 

They've made the cars narrower, which I guess is an attempt to reduce that aero penalty.

 

So my expectation is that they'll accelerate heavily at the beginning of the straights and then coast for a lot of it. 



#12 Clarkey

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 09:16

I wonder if the drag vs. downforce aero challenge might encourage them to seriously embrace active aerodynamics? 



#13 Scotracer

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 09:19

I wonder if the drag vs. downforce aero challenge might encourage them to seriously embrace active aerodynamics? 

 

If the speeds increase significantly they should look at it. Or use it as an enabler for higher speeds/less coasting. Currently the cars only reach ~200kph, based on the data I saw from last week's races, so probably isn't worth the weight. 



#14 Ben1445

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 09:24

On the subject of in-race recharging, the FIA is also currently in the process of trying to launch FIA Electric GT (eGT) for 2023 (thread: https://forums.autos...egory-for-2023/).

 

That ruleset is looking to incorporate 700kW regen and recharging at that rate for up to five minutes in fast charge pit stops. They also could have more power than Gen3 (425kW) and more energy (83kWh) but weigh much more at about 1450kg. 

 

I think cracking this fast charging business is pretty crucial in advancing electric racing. Racing pit stops used to be pretty long way back when, so if those recharging cycles can be made to work time and time again that could eventually make EV endurance racing a possibility at speeds which we might consider worthy of a racing car. Also incredibly road relevant to understand the effects of multiple deep discharge/recharge cycles in quick succession and develop management strategies for that. 

 

But that's something to build up to from pioneering race introductions like we should see in Gen3. 

 

 

Also, for reference here: 

Home chargers for an EV currently offer between 7-22kW. 

Commercial rapid-charging stations for most EVs released over the last few years have generally gone up around 50kW

Current generation of new EVs starting to push that figure up to 100kW

High-end EVs (such as Teslas, Porsches) can achieve speeds above 200kW

Fastest commercial chargers today have maximum rating of 350kW


Edited by Ben1445, 02 March 2021 - 09:25.


#15 Ben1445

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 09:33

Not necessarily. Drag will eat up a tonne of the energy at higher speeds - hence my point about running faster makes things much much harder. You recover kinetic energy from braking, but there's a big loss in drag all the way along the straight that is not recoverable. 

 

They've made the cars narrower, which I guess is an attempt to reduce that aero penalty.

 

So my expectation is that they'll accelerate heavily at the beginning of the straights and then coast for a lot of it. 

Yeah no, fair point. That's why I was saying I think the aerodynamic approach to an electric race vehicle needs to be minimum drag possible and then have downforce as a secondary consideration. The energy density constraints of batteries generate different design requirements. 

 

I think active-aerodynamics (within sensible limits) may well play a part in that for future electric race vehicles. 

 

The only thing I would say though is that current Gen2 cars have a very over-exaggerated lift-and-coast/braking phase because of the rear axle only recovery. Adding the front recovery changes the braking profile so it might not end up looking much different from today even with a longer coast phase (assuming similar circuit specs). 


Edited by Ben1445, 02 March 2021 - 09:42.


#16 thegamer23

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 09:43

If the speeds increase significantly they should look at it. Or use it as an enabler for higher speeds/less coasting. Currently the cars only reach ~200kph, based on the data I saw from last week's races, so probably isn't worth the weight.


Porsche actually reached 250 km/h in Valencia during testing.

It pretty much depends on the circuit configuration/gear ratio.

#17 Vielleicht

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 10:30

The only thing I would say though is that current Gen2 cars have a very over-exaggerated lift-and-coast/braking phase because of the rear axle only recovery. Adding the front recovery changes the braking profile so it might not end up looking much different from today even with a longer coast phase (assuming similar circuit specs). 

I think Scotracer is technically correct here in the the actual lift and coast phase will be longer. This comaparative analysis run by Canopy Simulations for a typical race condition around Marrakesh displays it quite well on this speed trace:

Screenshot-2021-03-02-at-10-09-02.png

The light blue trace is Gen3, which shows a more rapid acceleration followed by an earlier lift, longer coast and later braking. The twin-axle recovery does remove the need for a regen-paddle, which kicks the rear motor into regen before friction brakes are applied in tandem via the brake pedal. So in that sense the longer lift and coat phase is there, but the higher speeds are actually maintained for longer. The braking phase should then resemble any other racing car rather than the slightly weird, gradual slowing down of Gen2.

 

I also think lift and coast has been given and unfair go of it in recent years as though any race that isn't one long series of qualifying laps is 'improper'. Not only has it been an essential skill in motor racing since forever, but it also gives more oportunity to overtake if a driver decides to stay on the power longer before one particular corner whilst a rival does their usual lift-and-coast. They may then have to try and make up the extra energy that they used elsewhere which makes it something which relies heavily on a driver's thinking skills. A race format in which everyone is always braking at the last possible limit like it's a qualifying lap doesn't necessarily provide that.


Edited by Vielleicht, 02 March 2021 - 10:36.


#18 Scotracer

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 10:46

I think Scotracer is technically correct here in the the actual lift and coast phase will be longer. This comaparative analysis run by Canopy Simulations for a typical race condition around Marrakesh displays it quite well on this speed trace:

Screenshot-2021-03-02-at-10-09-02.png

The light blue trace is Gen3, which shows a more rapid acceleration followed by an earlier lift, longer coast and later braking. The twin-axle recovery does remove the need for a regen-paddle, which kicks the rear motor into regen before friction brakes are applied in tandem via the brake pedal. So in that sense the longer lift and coat phase is there, but the higher speeds are actually maintained for longer. The braking phase should then resemble any other racing car rather than the slightly weird, gradual slowing down of Gen2.

 

I also think lift and coast has been given and unfair go of it in recent years as though any race that isn't one long series of qualifying laps is 'improper'. Not only has it been an essential skill in motor racing since forever, but it also gives more oportunity to overtake if a driver decides to stay on the power longer before one particular corner whilst a rival does their usual lift-and-coast. They may then have to try and make up the extra energy that they used elsewhere which makes it something which relies heavily on a driver's thinking skills. A race format in which everyone is always braking at the last possible limit like it's a qualifying lap doesn't necessarily provide that.

 

Thanks for the link. I'll have a read. I don't have the time these days to do any modelling of the energy use. Glad someone's done it for me!



#19 Viryfan

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 11:23

I think FE will eventually join the F1 support bill against Agag's will.



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#20 RSRally

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 11:36

The Gen3 cars should be a real game changer, not only in terms of speed and acceleration but the lower weights should improve braking (in qualy) and cornering performance too. I would like to see them push race lengths up to around 1 hour, perhaps gradually throughout the Gen3 era. Current 45 min races sometimes feel a little short, especially when interrupted by safety cars/fcys/red flags.

#21 Ben1445

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 12:31

I think FE will eventually join the F1 support bill against Agag's will.

Toto Wolf was talking about this options on this theme a couple of days ago: https://www.planetf1...rmula-1-format/

TW: “Both companies ultimately belong to the same man – John Malone [chairman of Liberty Media]. What has failed so far is that both platforms are trying to position themselves in the best possible way,” 

“If one day synergies are possible, you could already drive together on a race weekend – for example on the street circuits,” he added.

“I think that’s a great thing, but it needs the approval of all stakeholders and that is – as we know – not easy in motorsport.”

 

I also don't think the greatest resistance to a merger of sorts would be from Agag, who's quoted in the same article as saying: 

AA: “Bernie [Ecclestone] should have taken control of Formula E, created it inside the fence and controlled it so they could decide where to take it,”

“Formula E is very different in terms of the level of prestige and audience to Formula 1, but I still think the future is a merger between them. I don’t know when this will happen and if the shareholders will want to do it."

 

At the end of the day everything needs to be approved by the FIA and World Motorsport Council and it's Jean Todt who seems to have been most keen to avoid comparisons between the two.

 

Closer ownership ties ('merger-lite') and Toto Wolf's shared billing at some (street?) circuits idea is what I'd peg as the more likely medium-term outcome rather than total absorption and relegation to support race status. Support billing is how it would have been to date if F1 had started FE from within, but FE now has World Championship status and has already built an identity of its own.

 

So I think those merger lines would have to be more blurred, kind of like how IMSA and the WEC worked when sharing events Sebring or COTA where it wasn't so much one playing support to the other as the occasional shared weekend of mutual interests. That case in particular being two organisations who are also now finally working towards the long talked about prototype convergence and regulatory alignment. 


Edited by Ben1445, 02 March 2021 - 12:31.


#22 Vielleicht

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 13:01

For anyone craving a visual comparison:

 

Screenshot-2021-03-02-at-13-00-39.png



#23 Vielleicht

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 13:07

Yeah no, fair point. That's why I was saying I think the aerodynamic approach to an electric race vehicle needs to be minimum drag possible and then have downforce as a secondary consideration. The energy density constraints of batteries generate different design requirements. 

 

I think active-aerodynamics (within sensible limits) may well play a part in that for future electric race vehicles.

Sign me up for ultra-sleek electric streamliners.
 



#24 Risil

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 13:13

For comparisons sake:

F1 2022: 775kg inc. driver + 110kg race fuel = 885kg.

FE 2022: 780kg inc. driver + no fuel = 780kg!

 

But how much will the Formula E cars weigh when they're full of electricity  :drunk:



#25 thegamer23

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 14:00

For anyone craving a visual comparison:

 

Screenshot-2021-03-02-at-13-00-39.png

 

Super interesting!
 

So, with the 350 kW in quali, GEN 3 will even have a slightly better weight/power ratio than IndyLights.

Quite a huge step from the first two generations. 

 

Wonder if there will be changes to the tyre compound, in order to handle better that quali power. 


Edited by thegamer23, 02 March 2021 - 14:01.


#26 HistoryFan

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 14:03

for me it sounds like Mercedes could also retire.



#27 Ben1445

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 14:20

Here's the original tender documents for anyone interested: 

Chassis 

Battery 



#28 juicy sushi

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 14:38

A physically smaller car will also help improve the racing, although they’re still going to be at least half a meter too long...

#29 Vielleicht

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 16:39

Call me an Eco-nerd but I'll be really interested to see what came of the call for sustaianble materials where possible and considerations for end-of-life/recyclability. I expect we'll see more use of those flax-fibre composite body panels among other things, but I'm also insterested in their tyre material sourcing and recycling and same for the batteries.


Edited by Vielleicht, 02 March 2021 - 16:39.


#30 Ben1445

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 19:31

Call me an Eco-nerd but I'll be really interested to see what came of the call for sustaianble materials where possible and considerations for end-of-life/recyclability. I expect we'll see more use of those flax-fibre composite body panels among other things, but I'm also insterested in their tyre material sourcing and recycling and same for the batteries.

That seems likely, the Extreme E car (also built by Spark) makes use of them for much of the car's bodywork.

 

image.jpg



#31 RSRally

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Posted 02 March 2021 - 20:17

Call me an Eco-nerd but I'll be really interested to see what came of the call for sustaianble materials where possible and considerations for end-of-life/recyclability. I expect we'll see more use of those flax-fibre composite body panels among other things, but I'm also insterested in their tyre material sourcing and recycling and same for the batteries.

 


Formula E partnered with Umicore to recycle Gen1 batteries: https://www.fiaformu...attery-programe

#32 RA2

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Posted 03 March 2021 - 08:47

Gen 1 cells 

Designed and assembled Williams 

Pouch cells supplied by Xalt

Cell size - a A4 sheet

https://www.racecar-...pouch-cells.jpg

 

Gen 2 Cells

Designed and assembled Mclaren and Lucid

Cells supplied by Sony Murata, 18650 VTC6 Cells

Size - Cylinder cells 65mm tall - similar to tesla Model S cells 

https://cdn11.bigcom...c=2?imbypass=on

 

Extreme E

Designed and assembled Williams 

Combination of Pouch and Cylinder

Pouch cells from A123

Cylinder cells from Samsung 21700 30T cylindrical lithium ion cells - similar to tesla Model 3 cells 

https://www.beltrona...-3-7v-50a-2.jpg

 

Gen 3

Designed and assembled Williams 

Battery size? New tesla size?

Tesla-4680-Battery-cell-hero-e1603050647

 

Cylindrical-cell-format-comparisons.png


Edited by RA2, 03 March 2021 - 09:02.


#33 Ben1445

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Posted 03 March 2021 - 09:25

Cylindrical-cell-format-comparisons.png

What are the heat arrows about?

Edited by Ben1445, 03 March 2021 - 09:26.


#34 RA2

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Posted 03 March 2021 - 09:27

What's that stiff with the heat arrows? 

 

No idea. Maybe how tesla would be locating their cold plate.



#35 Ben1445

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Posted 08 March 2021 - 20:11

So... all that talk of how a reveal of the new car could be just around the corner? Well, apparently not:

Formula E Will Reveal New Gen3 Car ‘As Late As Possible’ | https://the-race.com...te-as-possible/
 

The first public glimpse of the next generation ABB FIA Formula E World Championship car may not come until the end of 2021.

The FIA wants the design to feel as fresh as possible when it makes its racing debut in the latter part of next year.

Testing of the initial prototype is targeted to begin in the final quarter of this year, with an initial shakedown believed to be outlined for mid-September.

FIA circuit championships director Frederic Bertrand has told The Race that there is “no hurry there at all” to release the first views of the Gen3 car, which will be shown as “late as possible” for two key reasons.

The first is that the full styling design of the car has not yet been finalised. This is being configured by design consultants under the direction of the FIA and Formula E this month.

The second reason is that Formula E does not want to confuse people into thinking that the new cars will race next season (2021/22). The current Gen2 machines continue for that campaign, before Gen3 arrives when the 2022/23 championship begins late in 2022.



#36 Ben1445

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Posted 08 March 2021 - 20:16

I can understand wanting to avoid confusion over when the car will be introduced, so I suppose waiting until season 8 is underway would make most sense. 

 

We should get some news on manufacturer commitment beyond the those that have already announced and news of roll-outs, testing and maybe even spy-shots (though Gen2 was kept very well guarded during testing) and that can all be posted in this thread. 


Edited by Ben1445, 08 March 2021 - 20:16.


#37 RSRally

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Posted 09 March 2021 - 05:58

Interesting what DiGrassi says about the tyres needing improvement for Gen3. The new car is lighter so cornering performance should be better anyway but it might look a little incongruous to have the Gen3 cars blasting down the straights with all that extra power to then arrive at the corners with the usual tyre squealing lack of grip.

#38 Vielleicht

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Posted 09 March 2021 - 08:42

I did think the timing was a little odd to reveal so soon, this sort of time next year would make a lot more sense.

 

I'm with Lucas di Grassi on using moveable aerodynamics, but for that goes beyond just Formula E or electric race cars. Having a single aerodyanmic setting for the race that's a compromise between drag on the straights and downforce in the corners may have been a feature of motorsport for decades now, but when when it looks like there's going to be so much focus on energy efficiency in allmost all future formulas it starts to seem slightly incompatitble.

 

After all, aircraft have 'moveable aerodynamic devices' to optimise the wings for the vastly different conditions and requirements for take-off and cruise, why shouldn't racing cars have the same? Minimising the car's drag on the straights can save on energy use be it fuel, battery or otherwise and then deploying higher downforce surfaces only when needed can maintain the high speed, high performance handing that we associate with modern motorsport.

 

Of course, there would need to be appropriate safety and cost measures but I think it fits with the era we live in. I'm also just really curious to see what the cars would end up looking like after a few rounds of design evolution.



#39 Ben1445

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Posted 09 March 2021 - 13:29

Must admit, I am still slightly surprised that we've have no concepts - official or otherwise - for the Gen3 car. 



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#40 juicy sushi

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Posted 09 March 2021 - 14:20

I would hope they take the extra time to think very carefully about the physical format of the car.  If they want to continue to be mainly street races, I think they should look carefully at the physical dimensions and freedom that the lack of an ICE gives them to better optimize the car for that environment.  A 5-metre long car is in keeping with conventional open-wheel cars, but does Formula E no favours.  They were correct in Gen 2 to go in a non-traditional direction, and I think they need to go much further down that road.  They need something that looks swoopy, cool, and nothing like other series.  And it should also be better suited to street racing.  The robust front-ends may have made the racing a little 'touring car' for some, but helped make the racing much more action-packed, which is a good thing.  There is no point in doing the same thing when it isn't resonating with the public.



#41 Ben1445

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Posted 12 March 2021 - 22:11

FE's Alberto Longo on Gen3: https://www.autospor...change/5684172/
 

“Fast-charging and more control parts to drive the investment into the key race-to-road areas will be absolutely key [to Gen3].

“Frankly, we want to ensure Formula E is an attractive offering to prospective brands and teams. These regulations hopefully will do so.

“The Gen3 will be a step change both as a sporting product and for mobility technology transfer.”


And on the all important budget caps

“Formula E needs to remain road relevant. But also, at the same time, it has to be competitive and affordable. We’re ensuring this by introducing the budget caps with our Gen3 evolution of the cars and the financial regulations as well."


Edited by Ben1445, 12 March 2021 - 22:12.


#42 MattK9

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Posted 13 March 2021 - 16:02

Must admit, I am still slightly surprised that we've have no concepts - official or otherwise - for the Gen3 car.


Correct me if im wrong but FE first released images for gen 2 in march 2018 and and they were testing with them 6 months later and then raced them in the 2018/19 season. So if we arent going to see gen 3 until the 2022/23 season then following the same pattern means we will see designs this time next year.

#43 Ben1445

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Posted 13 March 2021 - 16:33

Correct me if im wrong but FE first released images for gen 2 in march 2018 and and they were testing with them 6 months later and then raced them in the 2018/19 season. So if we arent going to see gen 3 until the 2022/23 season then following the same pattern means we will see designs this time next year.

That was certainly the case for the final Gen2 design and the most recent official word from FE's side confirms that this is the plan for Gen3.

 

However, when Spark was announced as the Gen2 chassis tender winner in early 2017 they released some official preliminary visuals at that time and we haven't seen the same happen with Gen3. 

 

There were reports in recent months from outlets like The Race that the first visuals were expected in the first quarter of 2021, hence why some of us were expecting/hoping to see something soon. 

 

We also haven't seen many fan (and/or freelance graphic designer) guesses though either. Perhaps that not so much of a bad thing in case someone comes up with a truly stunning design which makes the actual Gen3 seem underwhelming (as so often seems to happen for liveries/future chassis renders of that kind). 


Edited by Ben1445, 13 March 2021 - 16:34.


#44 MattK9

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Posted 15 March 2021 - 00:11

That was certainly the case for the final Gen2 design and the most recent official word from FE's side confirms that this is the plan for Gen3.

However, when Spark was announced as the Gen2 chassis tender winner in early 2017 they released some official preliminary visuals at that time and we haven't seen the same happen with Gen3.

There were reports in recent months from outlets like The Race that the first visuals were expected in the first quarter of 2021, hence why some of us were expecting/hoping to see something soon.

We also haven't seen many fan (and/or freelance graphic designer) guesses though either. Perhaps that not so much of a bad thing in case someone comes up with a truly stunning design which makes the actual Gen3 seem underwhelming (as so often seems to happen for liveries/future chassis renders of that kind).


Wow, those Gen 2 promo shots look better than we actually got, in my opinion.

Fingers crossed that spark do something similar soon for Gen 3.

I wonder how they are going to house the front axle motor. Do we know if it is one motor for the axle or 2 motors (one per front wheel). That should have a profound impact on what the car physically will have to look like.

For want of a better term I am calling them motors. Generators or regen motors might be a better term. I hope they dont use the F1 abbreviation of MGU K.

#45 Vielleicht

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Posted 15 March 2021 - 23:59

I actually really liked those early Gen2 renders as well, especially the one from the side with the aeroscreen device rather than the closed canopy. With IndyCar now using an aeroscreen device I think it only makes it look  better In hindsight now.

 

I have nothing particualry against the current Gen2 exactly.



#46 Ben1445

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Posted 18 March 2021 - 23:22

https://www.autospor...3-cars/5769639/
 
- Formula E CEO Jamie Reigel was against delaying Gen3 during Covid crisis talks last year 
- Nissan, Mercedes and Porsche expected to announce commitments 'imminently' 
- Reigle confident of keeping "vast majority of folks in the paddock" 
 
And a quote on the car itself: 

“The car design is almost done. It's going look really, really cool. It's getting there.

“The mule car is coming in autumn, so that's probably when it first sees the light of day.

“But it's like in football, the kits always get leaked early. We'll keep it under wraps for as long as we can.”



#47 Vielleicht

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Posted 18 March 2021 - 23:57

If that's correct about Nissan, Merc and Porsche that would bring it up to five, which would still actually be pretty decent by comparable standards. And that's before we consider the Penske/Bosch powertrain.

 

I feel like Jaguar is a 50/50 at this stage, though their ambition to be  an EV-only brand by 2025 (overlapping with Gen3's tenure) and being bouyed in confidence from a recent win by Bird might be tipping things favourably. I would be less optimisic if they were still struggling to be competitive after four full seasons, but there's definitely potential in that team and I hope they stick around to see it through.

 

In any case, quality customer teams to fill in any gaps in the grid should certainly be no bad thing.



#48 RSRally

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Posted 19 March 2021 - 05:09

Not delaying Gen3 any further is the right decision.. tbh next season already feels like a bit of a stretch with the current car. There is some speculation another Stellanitis brand may come in using the DS powertrain too.

#49 thegamer23

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Posted 19 March 2021 - 08:22

Yep, delaying Gen 3 would have been catastrophic for the championship, expecially given the cancellation of the Gen 2 EVO project.

 

(wich looked very promising to me, expecially regarding the increased aero)

 

I also expected a slight power output increase for the current Gen 2, similar to what we had during the Gen 1 Era, but we didn't have any so far.

So the car kind of feels "old" already.

 

Another season (2022) with the Gen 2's, than switching to the Gen 3 is the right choice. 


Edited by thegamer23, 19 March 2021 - 08:23.


#50 Ben1445

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Posted 22 March 2021 - 20:13

Formula E Keeps Gen3 Door Open Amid New Manufacturer Talks | https://the-race.com...facturer-talks/
 

Porsche, Mercedes, Nissan and Jaguar are all understood to have an intention to continue their programmes but some of them are yet to have the decision formally ratified at board level.

Two other manufacturers are said to also be in talks with Formula E and the FIA to join those already involved in the world championship.

 

Also:
- 31st March is the formal deadline, after which registered manufacturers will start receiving data from the car's development.
 
- Registrations can apparently still happen after the March 31st but development data will only be shared once a commitment is made. 
 
- Full list of manufacturers for Gen3 launch should be finalised sometime in the summer.