605 replies to this topic

[giffo]

One for the historians
On this poster Bob Jane lists his cars. Where are they all now?

I can name the Jane/Repco Brabham - minus the V8
http://www.warm.org....rabham-BT23.htm
The Jane Bowin P8 'I believe' is also here in W.A & owned by Matt Lloyd. (I undersatand it's about to be put on the market??)
http://www.bowincars...allery#Bowin_P8

[Terry Walker]

Bob's XU-1 sports sedan, and the later Torana sedan were bought by Ian Diffen and raced in WA for a few years. After that I don't know.

[brucemoxon]

The Camaro is with the Bowden Collection, I think.

I think the production cars just vanished - probably sold as used cars.

Any others?



Bruce Moxon

[Catalina Park]

I have been thinking for a few years about starting a Bob Janes cars thread and now someone else has come up with the same idea. There are a lot of cars, probably many more than we think. It is probably better to divide them into catagories. I will kick things off.... (this is from the top of my head and will need a lot of additions and corrections)

Sportscars
Maserati 300S
Jaguar E type
Jaguar Lightweight E type
Elfin 400
Mclaren M6

Open Wheel
Elfin Mono
Brabham BT?
Brabham BT?
Brabham BT36
Bowin P8
Probably a few Ralt RT4s

Production Cars
Falcon
Mercedes Benz
Ford Cortina (or two?)
Monaro GTS350
Torana GTR XU1

Improved Touring Cars
Jaguar Mk2
Mustang 289 (written off at Catalina)
Mustang
Mustang
Camaro
Monaro HQ

Group C Touring Cars
Torana SLR 5000
Torana A9X

Sports Sedans
Repco Torana GTR XU1
Monaro
Chev Monza

[Ray Bell]

The HQ Monaro Improved Production car became the Sports Sedan, was sold to Phil Ward, then went to Melbourne again... can't remember the buyer's name, but he already had an HQ, possibly the City State 4-door.

The was also a D-type, which he may not have raced. It was on display with the lightweight E-type and the McLaren at the Granville T-Mart and became the subject of an attempted suicide.

I'm glad you remembered that red E-type, too...

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Catalina Park
Production Cars
Falcon
Mercedes Benz
Ford Cortina (or two?)
Monaro GTS350
Torana GTR XU1

Which Mercedes? The 220 raced at Phillip Island or the later ones raced by others at Bathurst, also purchased by Wardspeed? He also entered, but never ran, another Mercedes at Bathurst... maybe a 300SEL 6.3.

The original Cortina GT is at the Bathurst museum. There was a GT500, I'm sure, and there was a '64 GT Cortina. Also at the museum is a Jag Mk 2, which was sold off to Bruno Carosi when the Mustang arrived.

Another Cortina you've completely missed out on was the Lotus Cortina he and Spencer raced for a while.

The Torana that had the Repco in it also had a Chev V8 stuffed into it by Gardner.

I don't think the Camaro is in the Bowden collection. Certainly its gearbox isn't. It ran with both a small block and an alloy big block during its lifetime.

[Leo D]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
The HQ Monaro Improved Production car became the Sports Sedan, was sold to Phil Ward, then went to Melbourne again... can't remember the buyer's name, but he already had an HQ, possibly the City State 4-door.

Tino Leo from Sheparton ?????

As to some of the others

-The second Mustang was written off by Chris Brauer at Lakeside ATCC from memory....

-I think the Elfin 400 is being rebuilt again.... this time in Melbourne...

-McLaren M6 Repco.... that lived in the window of the Elizabeth st T-Mart Melbourne for a while....I thought it was undergoing some sort of restoration at some stage.... but I could be wrong.... I'd love to see it run again.

-Wasn't the MarkII Jag restored by the T-Marts and given back to Bob?

- I thought the Camaro was retored by Miles Johnson ?? and Bob now has it ???

As always, I am more than willing to be corrected on any of the above....

[David McKinney]

Last I heard (four or five years ago):
the Maserati 300S was with Klaus Werner in Germany
the lightweight E-type was in Japan
the Brabham BT23E was with Art Valdez in the US
the McLaren M6A and Brabham BT11A were owned by someone called Bob Jane

I reckon he had four Ralt RT4s - don't known where any of them are, though

[Ray Bell]

David, you are so smooth...

Yes, Leo, Miles rebuilt the Camaro for Bob. The Jag is very nice, but the stripes over the top are too wide. I'm pretty sure I heard that the M6 was being readied to put on the circuit again, possibly for demonstrations, and the 400 is well on the way to being finished. If not already done.

Four RT4s would be correct, Bob threw a lot of money into the AGP while he ran it at his goat track.

And yes, it was Tino Leo. I was having a mental block getting over Mick Monterosso's name, he was the buyer of Phil's Escort.

[giffo]

This is another one
http://www.racingher...om.au/1006.aspx

[Catalina Park]

So we may as well update this as we go..

Sportscars
Maserati 300S
Jaguar E type
Jaguar Lightweight E type
Elfin 400
Mclaren M6
There was also the Porsche 956 that was run at Silverstone and Le Mans in 1984 (leased from Fitzpatrick?)
Jaguar D type (not raced by Jane, I think!)

Open Wheel
Elfin Mono
Brabham BT11A (was there another Brabham?)
Brabham BT23E
Brabham BT36
Bowin P8
Probably a few Ralt RT4s (AGP book says three in 1981, I am sure that there was more over the next few years)
He also owned an Indycar, March or Lola in the late 80s when he was building the dome

Production Cars
Falcon XK (Phillip Island 1960)
Mercedes Benz 220SE (Phillip Island 1961)
Falcon XL (Phillip Island 1962)
Ford Cortina GT (Bathurst 1963)
Ford Cortina GT (Bathurst 1964)
Ford Cortina GT 500 (Bathurst 1965)
Falcon GT XR (Bathurst 1967)
Monaro GTS350
Torana GTR XU1

Improved Touring Cars
Jaguar Mk2
Lotus Cortina
Mustang 289 (written off at Catalina)
Mustang (written off by Chris Brauer at Lakeside)
Mustang
Camaro
Monaro HQ (Became the Sports Sedan HQ)

Group C Touring Cars
Torana GTR XU1 LJ
Torana SLR 5000
Torana A9X

Group A Touring Cars
BMW 635csi
2 Mercedes

Sports Sedans
Repco Torana GTR XU1
Monaro
Chev Monza

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Catalina Park
Probably a few Ralt RT4s (AGP book says three in 1981, I am sure that there was more over the next few years)

As I said earlier, four
262: Brabham 1981, Lafitte 1982
263: Jones 1881, Prost 1982, Lafitte 1983
273: Lafitte 1981
258: Brabham 1983

The D-type returned to the UK in the 1980s

[275 GTB-4]

Bob wanted to run a Grosser Mercedes at Bathurst....that would have been interesting

[Ray Bell]

Didn't the R C Phillips Brabham go to Jane's with the engine?

I think that was a BT14... David will correct me, of course.

[David McKinney]

Correct on all counts, Ray
The Repco went in during the car's last year with R C Phillips, and that was what was taken over by the Jane team
The BT14 is now with Peter Harburg

[Jacer]

The HQ Monaro is in Sydney being converted back into improved production spec.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by Jacer
The HQ Monaro is in Sydney being converted back into improved production spec.

That would be a lot of work!

[Jacer]

Yeah, from what I've heard that's been the case!

[giffo]

Bob's XU-1 sports sedan, and the later Torana sedan were bought by Ian Diffen and raced in WA for a few years. After that I don't know.

Terry who belongs is this machine? A true sports sedan in every sense....It was at the Albany hillblimb in June


image Terry McGrath

[Catalina Park]

Now about the Brabhams.... I have seen references to Brabham Climax > Brabham Repco > Brabham Waggot and then Brabham Repco in that order.
I have also seen a story about a potential "Jane" engine for 1972. Supposedly a 2 litre 4 cyl with potential to become a V8 with 4 valves "diametrically opposed"

I think that the Ralt RT4 273 that Lafitte drove in 1981 went to Ray hanger and then to Peter Hopwood but I don't know after that.

Bob also had a heap of Nascars (is the collective of Nascars a heap?)

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Catalina Park
I think that the Ralt RT4 273 that Lafitte drove in 1981 went to Ray hanger and then to Peter Hopwood but I don't know after that.

Yes, sorry, I should have said
It's now with Geoff Calvert but I don't know the fate of the other Jane RT4s

[275 GTB-4]

Originally posted by giffo


Terry who belongs is this machine? A true sports sedan in every sense....It was at the Albany hillblimb in June

image Terry McGrath

Looks like "Soloman" on the rear window.

[d j fox]

A question for our Australian historians...

The only time I saw Bob Jane race was at the 1964 British Grand Prix Meeting Brand Hatch on the 11th July where he ran his lightweight Jaguar in the Ilford Trophy Grand Touring Cars race....I recollect the car was white with, I think red stripes, but I also have a very, very vague memory of a small kangaroo painted on the side...is this correct?
For those of you with long memories this was the famous Jack Sears Willment Cobra victory after he was black flagged ,tearing around to beat Jackie Stewart in the Coombs E Type--also John Willment's altercation with the RAC....!!

[David Shaw]

The stripes on the E Type would have been red/yellow/red which he wore on his cars in deference to his Shell sponsorship.

As far as his Brabhams are concerned, there was the BT11A (IC-4-64) with a Climax FPF that he ran for Spencer Martin to win his consecutive Gold Stars in 66-67, which was the car Martin drove in '65 for McKay's Scuderia Veloce. This was the car that Graham Hill drove in the 1965 Tasman Series.

Realising that the Climax FPF was nearing the end of its competitive life, after the 1968 Tasman Series Jane bought the BT23E (BT23E-1) that Brabham himself had driven in the series. This had a Repco V8 fitted. The first outing for this car was the Bathurst 100 meeting where John Harvey drove the car and crashed badly in practice (broken upright?). Martin had retired at the end of the 1967 season. The car was rebuilt and while Harvey was recuperating, it was driven by quite a few drivers including Ian Cook, Jim Palmer, Allan Moffat and Jane himself.

By 1972 the BT23-1 had given way to a BT36 with a Waggott 2 litre engine.

The "Jane" engine I have not heard of, but I am very interested.

[Bondy]

Im sure Willie Van Wersch has the Jane Torana, it would need a heap of work to return to its former glory.

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally posted by David Shaw
Realising that the Climax FPF was nearing the end of its competitive life, after the 1968 Tasman Series Jane bought the BT23E (BT23E-1) that Brabham himself had driven in the series. .......

Last heard of with Art Valdez in the States.

[giffo]

Originally posted by Andrew Fellowes
Last heard of with Art Valdez in the States.

Arguable....... hence view

http://www.warm.org....rabham-BT23.htm





And a question that I raised earlier

http://forums.autosp...&threadid=97357

And yes I know the body work on the front is different in all 3 images

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by David Shaw
The stripes on the E Type would have been red/yellow/red which he wore on his cars in deference to his Shell sponsorship.....

.....As far as his Brabhams are concerned, there was the BT11A (IC-4-64) with a Climax FPF that he ran for Spencer Martin to win his consecutive Gold Stars in 66-67, which was the car Martin drove in '65 for McKay's Scuderia Veloce. This was the car that Graham Hill drove in the 1965 Tasman Series.

Realising that the Climax FPF was nearing the end of its competitive life, after the 1968 Tasman Series Jane bought the BT23E (BT23E-1) that Brabham himself had driven in the series. This had a Repco V8 fitted. The first outing for this car was the Bathurst 100 meeting where John Harvey drove the car and crashed badly in practice (broken upright?). Martin had retired at the end of the 1967 season. The car was rebuilt and while Harvey was recuperating, it was driven by quite a few drivers including Ian Cook, Jim Palmer, Allan Moffat and Jane himself.

By 1972 the BT23-1 had given way to a BT36 with a Waggott 2 litre engine.

The "Jane" engine I have not heard of, but I am very interested.

I think the Jane engine is a furphy...

You don't mention the BT14 here, which was purchased by Jane to get the Repco engine.

And IIRC it was a broken wheel at Bathurst. The full story is in The Rise And Fall of Peter Brock by Tuckey and Harvey.

[David Shaw]

Thanks Ray, I forgot to mention the R C Phillips BT14 that came across with Harvey to the Jane Organisation. The Repco V8 was then removed from that and put into the back of the BT11A for Harvey to drive in the 1968 Tasman Series, prior to getting the BT23E.

[kaydee]

Originally posted by Ray Bell


I think the Jane engine is a furphy...

Ray, the Jane engine was not altogether a furphy........... it did partially exist....at least on paper that is.
I saw some of the original design drawings of it in the early '70s when Bob had his Race shop in Breece St Brunswick.
The designer (I can't remember his name) showed me some fairly amatuerish drawings of the cylinder head and block.
There was also an article in SCW with some talk about running the engine at Indy - but this was optimistic in the extreme.



The "designer" was more of a dreamer than a designer and didn't really understand the casting or manufacturing processes required to build an engine. I can remember him showing me a racing wheel that he'd "designed". It was a nice looking wheel but unfortunately he'd put the tyre well in the middle of the very wide rim and you were therefore unable to mount a tyre onto the rim.........

[Andrew Fellowes]

Originally posted by giffo


Arguable....... hence view

The Jane Repco built by Renmax? or am I missing something here?


Shot at 2007-10-10

BT23E-1 went to Ray Delaney, David Madrers, Bill Marshall ... then Art, or are you saying that's not right?

[giffo]

I was just interested in Clarification

There is no argument from me with regards to what is on that CoD. If it's good enough for the historic eligibility officers to quantify then that must be it then?

http://www.ten-tenth...&highlight=jane
http://www.ten-tenth...&highlight=jane

Unless.........

[David McKinney]

Originally posted by Andrew Fellowes
The Jane Repco built by Renmax?

Or the Bowin-built Jane P8?

[David Shaw]

I could be completely wrong here, but after Harvey's crash in the BT23E, didn't Bob Britten fabricate a totally new chassis for it when it was rebuilt?

[The Chasm]

I have just finished yesterday re-reading "The Rise and Fall of Peter Brock" and can confirm that it was an upright failure at Bathurst with John Harvey behind the wheel.

The wheel and failed upright parted from the rest of the car during the accident, which is obviously where the "wheel failed" myth arose.

But, the above is just what I read, I can't confirm as I was not there.

[Ray Bell]

Bearing in mind that what's in the book is referenced from movie film of the incident, with details filled in by John Sawyer's investigations into the thing, I don't think there's any question that the facts there are right.

As for Britto building the Jane chassis, I simply don't know. It sounds logical, I could phone him and ask him, but not at this hour. That poor BT23E went through some hard times.

[John Ellacott]

The Brabham BT 11A Climax was on display at the Bathurst Motor Racing Museum about 2 years ago when I visited.
The Elfin 400 is with Bill Hemmings and the Elfin Mono with Grant Burford.

[David Shaw]

The Certificate of Description for the McCrudden car lists the year of manufacture as 1969. As the BT23E was raced in 1968 in the Tasman Series, that would imply to me that it was manufactured in England in 1967 so maybe it is a different car to that of Art Valdez.

[giffo]

I could be completely wrong here, but after Harvey's crash in the BT23E, didn't Bob Britten fabricate a totally new chassis for it when it was rebuilt?

I'm not 100% sure but I believe that that is the case.

As for Britto building the Jane chassis, I simply don't know. It sounds logical, I could phone him and ask him, but not at this hour. That poor BT23E went through some hard times.

Great Idea & since you suggested it I'd be very interested

The Certificate of Description for the McCrudden car lists the year of manufacture as 1969. As the BT23E was raced in 1968 in the Tasman Series, that would imply to me that it was manufactured in England in 1967 so maybe it is a different car to that of Art Valdez.

That is true but what is a direct line of history worth & when does one car finish & another start? Can one car become two & both lay claim to being the same one?

I'd just like to point out that while I have no direct connection with the car I do know Neil very well & he is aware of me asking a few questions. My interest is what the community's & the historian's here thoughts are in these situations which do happen more often that were probably realise.

[David Shaw]

Originally posted by giffo

That is true but what is a direct line of history worth & when does one car finish & another start? Can one car become two & both lay claim to being the same one?

Even if Britto did build another chassis, that was definitely in the first half of 1968, not 1969 unless the year quoted on the CoD is incorrect.

My thoughts are that maybe Neil has the Jane Brabham with the Britto chassis (as raced by the Jane Org. after the Bathurst crash) and that Art has BT23E-1 with a repaired chassis. This would explain the existence of two cars.

[Ray Bell]

Originally posted by giffo
.....Great Idea & since you suggested it I'd be very interested.....

Here's the gen from Britto...

He repaired the car for Jane, and built another chassis. He tells me he built about 11 BT23 chassis over the years, the other one he specifically mentioned was the replacement for Hulme's car.

[giffo]

From Ray

Here's the gen from Britto...
He repaired the car for Jane, and built another chassis. He tells me he built about 11 BT23 chassis over the years, the other one he specifically mentioned was the replacement for Hulme's car.

and from David

My thoughts are that maybe Neil has the Jane Brabham with the Britto chassis (as raced by the Jane Org. after the Bathurst crash) and that Art has BT23E-1 with a repaired chassis. This would explain the existence of two cars.

I'd say both statements are correct! Ray's info form Britto being that a new chassis was built by him for the Jane BT23 & the Art has the repaired chassis. This does explain the existence of two cars & the acknowledgement that they both exist and share part of the same history.

Now how to get the original engine from Bob??? Without resorting to deep pockets!

BTW
Garry Cooper and others at the time recognized that the Jane was the Brabham BT23 and mentioned in his autobiography that “John Harvey raced ahead in his rechassised and rebodied Brabham Repco V8 called a Jane to win from Garrie and Bob”. In addition, Bob Jane also saw that there was only one car (BT23 and the Jane) as shown in his poster for the 1975 International Motor Show.


Now a question I asked on another thread & people have been reluctant to discuss
http://forums.autosp...&threadid=97357
Maybe I asked the wrong question?

[Catalina Park]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Bearing in mind that what's in the book is referenced from movie film of the incident, with details filled in by John Sawyer's investigations into the thing, I don't think there's any question that the facts there are right.

The funny thing is that although they claim a broken upright, the still photos show the upright in one piece and the wheel studs without nuts. I also have read an interview with John Harvey and he says "a wheel fell off"

[Catalina Park]

Originally posted by kaydee
Ray, the Jane engine was not altogether a furphy........... it did partially exist....at least on paper that is.
I saw some of the original design drawings of it in the early '70s when Bob had his Race shop in Breece St Brunswick.
The designer (I can't remember his name) showed me some fairly amatuerish drawings of the cylinder head and block.
There was also an article in SCW with some talk about running the engine at Indy - but this was optimistic in the extreme.

The "designer" was more of a dreamer than a designer and didn't really understand the casting or manufacturing processes required to build an engine. I can remember him showing me a racing wheel that he'd "designed". It was a nice looking wheel but unfortunately he'd put the tyre well in the middle of the very wide rim and you were therefore unable to mount a tyre onto the rim.........

Was the "designers" name Bill Fell?

[Ray Bell]

Actually, Britto raised this subject today on the phone...

"They did break uprights," he said, "remember KB broke one at Bathurst. But Harvey reckoned that the wheel nuts hadn't been done up."

So the book, maybe, avoids a confrontation?

[kaydee]

Originally posted by Catalina Park
Was the "designers" name Bill Fell?

I'm not sure - it was a long time ago. I only met him the once and next time I was there he was gone and the project had been abandoned. Do you have any more background info?

[Catalina Park]

Originally posted by Ray Bell
Actually, Britto raised this subject today on the phone...

"They did break uprights," he said, "remember KB broke one at Bathurst. But Harvey reckoned that the wheel nuts hadn't been done up."

So the book, maybe, avoids a confrontation?

I think so. Maybe Bill Tuckey didn't want to offend everyone.

[Ray Bell]

Tuckey? Offend?

No, of course he doesn't... he leaves that to Romsey Quints...

[Catalina Park]

Originally posted by kaydee

I'm not sure - it was a long time ago. I only met him the once and next time I was there he was gone and the project had been abandoned. Do you have any more background info?

I just have a story in a book called "Motor Racing the Australian Way" edited by Bryan Hanrahan, with a lot of stories that look like they were ghost written. One story is about running a racing team by John Sawyer. He ends up talking about the new engine that they were developing and how the original designer was Bill Fell. It sort of gives the impression that they took the idea and give Bill the flick.

[cavvy]

Bob still has the Mk2 Jag, the Camaro ZL1, the Brabham BT11a (NZGP winner on debut piloted by G.Hill), the Schnitzer BMW 635, the McLaren M6b & a collection of Repco engines .... that I've seen in the past 12 months.

The HQ was acquired by Des Wall & is currently being restored.

Understand the Elfin 400 is back in Melbourne.

The Trans Am Mustang (Bobs 3rd Mustang) is reputedly in a US museum, restored in the US after Bob Stevens sold it on.
The 2nd Mustang is in the Bowden hands, to be rebuilt ?

The L34 sold on to Ian Diffen is still in WA?

Claims are made on a regular basis of ownership of the A9X shared with Pete Geoghegan.

There is also a Penske & the Nascars.


Saw a Lagonda 1980s vintage in recent days, road going.