423 replies to this topic

[Arry2k]

I have no idea whether this guy is a reliable source or not, but, he claims in this tweet that both Mercedes and Red Bull want Pirelli to revert back to 2012 tyre spec.

Tobias Gruner Tweet

Even if true, I would imagine that this being pretty hard to work and massively unfair on the other teams. Any thoughts?

Edited by Arry2k, 23 March 2013 - 10:54.

[JensonWDC]

http://www.auto-moto...en-6801436.html

[Jimisgod]

Boo hoo. They ain't winning, so they crying.

[Timstr11]

So according to Newey, the tyre tends to delaminate when the chassis exerts too much downforce in corners.
To me this sounds like a flaw in the design of the tyre and has got nothing to do with improving the show as Pirelli maintains.
A tyre should not delaminate this easily.

[Kelateboy]

I have no idea whether this guy is a reliable source or not, but, he claims in this tweet that both Mercedes and Red Bull want Pirelli to revert back to 2012 tyre spec.

Tobias Gruner Tweet

Even if true, I would imagine that this being pretty hard to work and massively unfair on the other teams. Any thoughts?

Ain't going to happen.

[Francesc]

Ain't going to happen. All teams would have to agree for it to go ahead, and Lotus won't ever accept that.

[peroa]

So according to Newey, the tyre tends to delaminate when the chassis exerts too much downforce in corners.
To me this sounds like a flaw in the design of the tyre and has got nothing to do with improving the show as Pirelli maintains.
A tyre should not delaminate this easily.

Yep, they're using a steel belt for the first time according to amus that overheats.

[Sin]

gotta agree tho that the tyres suck... they should make the tyres longer lasting...... so drivers can go to the limit..... no fun to see them going slow just cause of shitty tyres

thats what I already thought 2012 tho

Edited by Sin, 23 March 2013 - 11:10.

[Arry2k]

So according to Newey, the tyre tends to delaminate when the chassis exerts too much downforce in corners.
To me this sounds like a flaw in the design of the tyre and has got nothing to do with improving the show as Pirelli maintains.
A tyre should not delaminate this easily.

But it does not appear to be a problem for anyone else and the tyres are the same for all. Surely this is Mercedes and Red Bulls problem to sort out, no?

[TFLB]

Mercedes and Red Bull build cars which destroy their tyres while other teams did a better job in that area. Now because they're not winning they want other tyres. Cry me a river. It's their own fault if they can't manage the tyres.

[Timstr11]

gotta agree tho that the tyres suck... they should make the tyres longer lasting...... so drivers can go to the limit..... no fun to see them going slow just cause of shitty tyres

For me it's not so much about a faster degradation.
It's the delamination which I'm sure is also a worry for Pirelli.
No tyre manufacturer will enjoy people seeing their tyre literally disintegrate. Moreover, it looks dangerous to me.

[Baddoer]

[Sakae]

Mercedes and Red Bull build cars which destroy their tyres while other teams did a better job in that area. Now because they're not winning they want other tyres. Cry me a river. It's their own fault if they can't manage the tyres.

--------------------

People usually write either something very profound or very silly here. I don't want to do that, so therefore I will leave it blank.

It seems that you failed on your promise.

[Timstr11]

But it does not appear to be a problem for anyone else and the tyres are the same for all. Surely this is Mercedes and Red Bulls problem to sort out, no?

I believe in practice today, on one of Kimi's runs tyre parts were coming off. It's not just Mercedes and Redbull.

[choyothe]

So according to Newey, the tyre tends to delaminate when the chassis exerts too much downforce in corners.
To me this sounds like a flaw in the design of the tyre and has got nothing to do with improving the show as Pirelli maintains.
A tyre should not delaminate this easily.

Absurd if true.

And who'd not believe the God?

Edited by choyothe, 23 March 2013 - 11:14.

[Jimisgod]

So according to Newey, the tyre tends to delaminate when the chassis exerts too much downforce in corners.
To me this sounds like a flaw in the design of the tyre and has got nothing to do with improving the show as Pirelli maintains.
A tyre should not delaminate this easily.

Stop the press: Newey car hard on a particular mechanical component. More at 11...

[Massa_f1]

If you build a fast car you should be rewarded for it. These tyres are close to being beyond useless for going motor racing.

[peroa]

Tobias Grüner F1 @tgruener
#F1 Mercedes believes, Pirelli will change tyre compounds. Should be less sensitive to cold temperatures. Probably for China.

[H2H]

Krisensitzung bei Red Bull und Mercedes. Das Reifenthema lässt die Formel 1 nicht mehr los. Immer mehr setzt sich die Erkenntnis durch, dass die neuen Pirelli-Reifen die Autos bestrafen, die viel Abtrieb haben. Red Bull-Technikchef Adrian Newey sieht einen direkten Zusammenhang zwischen Abtrieb und Verschleiß. Aber nicht wie früher, dass viel Abtrieb gleichbedeutend ist mit geringem Verschleiß.

"Genau das Gegenteil tritt ein. Wer die Reifen in den Kurven mehr belastet, bezahlt damit, dass sich der Gummi schneller von der Lauffläche schält", so die Analyse des erfahrenen Red Bull-Konstrukteurs. Sein Pilot Sebastian Vettel stöhnt: "Je besser das Auto, umso schlechter bist du dran."

Basically they say the more downforce the worse. Brilliant and nice dice throw by Pirelli. Teams get punished for bulding faster cars. This is what F1 is all about.

[MortenF1]

Finally it seems someone has given their opinion in public, to put a bit of pressure on Pirelli. The tires are joke, but it now turns out they can't take the load from high-speed sweepers. (Imagine if Turkey with T8 was on the calendar. We'd have had US GP 2005 all over, but with NO cars starting.)

I saw Hembery and two other Pirelli guys in frantic conversation today.........

[kedia990]

Tobias Grüner F1 @tgruener
#F1 Mercedes believes, Pirelli will change tyre compounds. Should be less sensitive to cold temperatures. Probably for China.

The tyre allocation for China will be changed or the structure/design of the tyre itself?

[Arry2k]

I believe in practice today, on one of Kimi's runs tyre parts were coming off. It's not just Mercedes and Redbull.

If there are genuine safety concerns for all teams then, obviously, it is Pirelli's duty to fix the issue - that does not necessarily mean reverting to 2012 though. However, if this is an underhand way for whichever teams to engineer a benefit to themselves under the fascade of safety concerns then, frankly, these notions should not be entertained, IMO.

[choyothe]

Cheese tyres are unnecessary when we have DRS, that's the bottom line.

[Goron3]

The tyre allocation for China will be changed or the structure/design of the tyre itself?

The structure will be changed to make them better in cold temperatures.

China has typically been cold or wet since its been moved to the beginning of the year it's definitely a good decision

[TFLB]

It seems that you failed on your promise.

I know, do you think I haven't noticed that in the (just under) three years it's been there?

[Timstr11]

The tyre allocation for China will be changed or the structure/design of the tyre itself?

Tyre allocation.

[Diablobb81]

Mercedes and Red Bull build cars which destroy their tyres while other teams did a better job in that area. Now because they're not winning they want other tyres. Cry me a river. It's their own fault if they can't manage the tyres.

Except that they are arguing that they are penalised for having a better car and that the problem is that too much DF ruins the tires.

[Timstr11]

The structure will be changed to make them better in cold temperatures.

China has typically been cold or wet since its been moved to the beginning of the year it's definitely a good decision

A new design? On such short notice?

[DutchQuicksilver]

I say bring Bridgestone back

[SunnyENTP]

Better still, bring back Bridgstones + DRS = more aggressive racing

[TFLB]

Except that they are arguing that they are penalised for having a better car and that the problem is that too much DF ruins the tires.

The 'goodness' of a car should not solely be measured in downforce. So if the car destroys the tyres much faster than the opposition then it's not a better car, even if it is quicker over one lap.

[Sin]

Better still, bring back Bridgstones + DRS = more aggressive racing

yes

[PassWind]

Cheese tyres are unnecessary when we have DRS, that's the bottom line.

This is true, if we accept that the type of tire is a physical challenge for the teams to engineer around they may as well make them out of real cheese for shitz n giggles. I thought the tire factor was ok in Australia but if they are literally going to fall apart Pirelli needs to rethink the design.

[Cenotaph]

Bring Bridgestone back? I guarantee you Red Bull would win 90% of the races and there would be as much overtaking as it used to be in 2010 regardless of DRS

Edited by Cenotaph, 23 March 2013 - 11:33.

[F1ultimate]

If you build a fast car you should be rewarded for it. These tyres are close to being beyond useless for going motor racing.

It's also a waste of resources to spend millions chasing the next tenth only to be set back by tires designed by clowns.

[DutchQuicksilver]

Bring Bridgestone back? I guarantee you Red Bull would win 90% of the races and there would be as much overtaking as it used to be in 2010 regardless of DRS

Nah, Red Bull has been dominant since Pirelli entered the sport in 2011. 2010 was very exciting championship wise, so how come you think Red Bull would win it all?

[Timstr11]

If there are genuine safety concerns for all teams then, obviously, it is Pirelli's duty to fix the issue - that does not necessarily mean reverting to 2012 though. However, if this is an underhand way for whichever teams to engineer a benefit to themselves under the fascade of safety concerns then, frankly, these notions should not be entertained, IMO.

It might be too short notice to design and test a new tyre, so maybe that's why the 2012 tyre was suggested.

[Lelouch]

The 'goodness' of a car should not solely be measured in downforce. So if the car destroys the tyres much faster than the opposition then it's not a better car, even if it is quicker over one lap.

But then what should designers focus on when building a car? Maybe downforce became too important in the Pirelli years ( although i thought it always was among the most important factors, am I wrong ) but how are you supposed to build a car and find a soft spot between lacking downforce and having too much of it? Imho Pirelli is messing around too much, regardless of whether it's good for the spectacle or not.

[Arry2k]

It might be too short notice to design and test a new tyre, so maybe that's why the 2012 tyre was suggested.

True enough. Still I would imagine that it would take Pirelli quite some time to produce enough 2012 tyres for all teams.

[Clatter]

So according to Newey, the tyre tends to delaminate when the chassis exerts too much downforce in corners.
To me this sounds like a flaw in the design of the tyre and has got nothing to do with improving the show as Pirelli maintains.
A tyre should not delaminate this easily.

This is not necessarily true. There are other factors such as exhaust positioning that could be overheating the tyres.

[Timstr11]

This is not necessarily true. There are other factors such as exhaust positioning that could be overheating the tyres.

It was not an issue last year or the year before.
You're the first to see that as a probable cause.

[mlsnoopy]

This is not necessarily true. There are other factors such as exhaust positioning that could be overheating the tyres.

No matter what you do the a tyre it shouldn't delaminate. Lose performance fine, but what for example happened to Hamilton in FP3 when a whole piece of the tyre was missing, shouldn't happen.

[Cenotaph]

Nah, Red Bull has been dominant since Pirelli entered the sport in 2011. 2010 was very exciting championship wise, so how come you think Red Bull would win it all?

Well, but 2010 was exciting because of RB6's poor reliabilty. With tyres built to last like Bridgestone's, Red Bull would be able to push the limits in race trim and translate their apparent one lap pace advantage this year into race pace, imho.

What we really really need is proper tyre war... natural competition instead of artifically made tyre falloff.

[Clatter]

It was not an issue last year or the year before.
You're the first to see that as a probable cause.

I didn't say probable. Just that there are other factors that can come into play, and just because it didn't happen last year doesn't mean it can never happen. I have no idea if they have changed the exhaust layout, but they have had problems in that area in the past.

[fololo]

I didn't say probable. Just that there are other factors that can come into play, and just because it didn't happen last year doesn't mean it can never happen. I have no idea if they have changed the exhaust layout, but they have had problems in that area in the past.

Omfg keep the tyres.



RENAULT LOTUS SAVE USSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

[Longtimefan]

Lets go back to Goodyear Eagles.

[nectar]

One thing puzzles me though- the regulation didn't change much from last year, the only big challenge is supposed to be making your tyres working. All teams were given testing time in Brazil on these 2013 tyres, on equal circumstance. And now they argue because they couldn't design a car that sustains the tyres? I didn't realize we've entered an era of Red-Bull F1 now. And on wild speculation Mercedes is in this partly because they want to win Red Bull over for 2014 engine? seeing that Mercedes most probably has lost McLaren to Honda, and that Red Bull has chosen Infiniti for title sponsor?... anyhow, if this tyre thing is true, i heartily feel F1 is beyond absurdity now, the fact that big name calls the game is even more absurd than the fact that we now need these tyres to sustain this show. At least you have equality.

[MortenF1]

One thing puzzles me though- the regulation didn't change much from last year, the only big challenge is supposed to be making your tyres working. All teams were given testing time in Brazil on these 2013 tyres, on equal circumstance. And now they argue because they couldn't design a car that sustains the tyres?

You have it upside-down.

[Sin]

Mercedes agree with Red Bull cause their tyres were destroyed (have you not seen the scene where Hamilton was missing part of the tire) they were basically spending practice to make their car slower.... just so that the tires survive... and that is not fun to watch

[Jovanotti]

What a bunch of sore losers. Winning the double three times in a row and start whining after one race where they faced some problems. Massive

Benoit from Blick:

One thing is clear: who ever from the top teams is not at the front will put the blame on the tyres. Mostly a feeble excuse.

Edited by Jovanotti, 23 March 2013 - 12:08.